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  #21  
Old 29.04.2010, 11:14
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

Stephen hawknigs is a fine one to talk about aliens...
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Old 29.04.2010, 11:16
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

what the kid says...
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  #23  
Old 29.04.2010, 11:16
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

So, do i get this right - we haven't started living on Mars, not because we cant breath, but because the Martians told us not to? Especially the cowboys amongst us who carry guns?
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Old 29.04.2010, 11:27
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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Roland, I see you have thought about this. (which is a worry in itself.)
It is possible that they do not consider us a threat as we only use nuclear power, and they separate quarks when they wish to destroy someone.
There is likely to be a huge time delay involved between contact with a civilisation and if we have sent even a conventionally armed craft into space then the next time they are able to check on us we could have fleets of such craft venturing beyond our solar system that are armed with very advanced weapons that is a real threat to them. If we have been contacted by such a civilisation then negotiation might not be possible.
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Old 29.04.2010, 11:29
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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There is probably a safeguard against being eliminated by such an automated defence system. If the civilisation that evolved it still exists then they would be contacted before such an action is taken. If the defence system has lost contact with the originating civilisation then it would be looking for a key indicator of a threat. I would suggest that in both cases this could be a craft sent into space that is armed in any way. If the civilisation is still around then there is probably some way they could warn the evolving civilisation that if they ever did sent an armed craft into space - even as far as their own moon, then they would be eliminated. An automated system running on its own could probably not issue such a warning but could check for armaments on any space craft and take appropriate action.

I would guess from what I have read so far about the sort of encounters we have possibly had that such an automated system does exist and is monitoring the Earth and also that the originating civilisation has become involved and has already issued a clear warning to the governments of Earth that they must never venture into space with any armed craft. It seems to me that there has been a change of policy about sending men into space and this could be the result of such a dire warning.
Oh okay I see what you're saying, interesting. Yeah I noticed that change.
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Old 29.04.2010, 11:34
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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So, do i get this right - we haven't started living on Mars, not because we cant breath, but because the Martians told us not to? Especially the cowboys amongst us who carry guns?
It won't be the Martians warning us but some other civilisation.

I know that this is wild speculation on my part but you have got to bear in mind the potential threat to the population of Earth. If we accept that alien civlisations exist or might well exist then we should regard the venturing into space as an *extremely* risky business that is worthy of extensive thought and speculation to minimise risk. Think of it like backpacking on your own to Romania but much, much worse.
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  #27  
Old 29.04.2010, 12:08
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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It won't be the Martians warning us but some other civilisation.

I know that this is wild speculation on my part but you have got to bear in mind the potential threat to the population of Earth. If we accept that alien civlisations exist or might well exist then we should regard the venturing into space as an *extremely* risky business that is worthy of extensive thought and speculation to minimise risk. Think of it like backpacking on your own to Romania but much, much worse.
Religious "we are the only ones created by God" bollocks aside, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that alien civilizations exist, it's pretty much mathematically impossible for them not to. Billions of galaxies, trillions of suns, gazillions of planets surrounding them. There has to be untold worlds capable of supporting life, and it stands to reason that proportionally a significant number hold life, and out of that proportion a number of species have evolved from primitive life into a complex society, a proportion of which will have developed space technology. When you factor that many will also have been evolving long before we were a twinkle in the universal eye, you have some crazy possibilites out there with regards to the kind of technology that they possess, things that our science can't explain, understand, or probably even imagine as yet. But then again we have been technologically aware for around 150 years, which in the grand scheme of things is laughable.

There will be benign, friendly aliens that want to help, and there will be hostile aleins that want to hurt. For all we know Earth may be the only resource-rich planet within a significant distance, so I personally don't think it is a good idea to bend over and offer our proverbial ringpiece to all and sundry without first developing technology capable of potentially neutralizing a threat without nuking it and ourselves... which is our main problem. When laser, plasma, gauss, and mass driver technology if fully developed then we will stand a fighting chance of protecting ourselves, and only then if we get some kind of planetary defence operational that will hit things before they have a chance to hit us. While I would never want to think we would fire without giving any species a chance to prove their intent, until we get off of this rock and start spreading ourselves around then we are sitting ducks for anything that wants to have their wicked way with us. And (again this is speculation on my part) when you factor in that oil companies are purposefully limiting our energy development (which is understandable, it is an industry worth trillions, there is no way they will allow renewable technology to progress too far yet, they will trickle it through gradually so the economy survives and society keeps pace with the benefits) then we are not really going to hit the big-time for a while yet.

Personally while I am no tin-foil hat wearer, I believe that we have been in contact with other species for a while now, to my mind there is simply too much evidence to discount it, despite the smoke and mirrors surrounding it, and that we are very lucky that they aren't overtly hostile. They probably clocked us a loooong time ago and have monitored us for a good while, along with any other developing species they encounter. As we are progressing so fast and are historically such a warlike species, also due to our population and development dictating that we must expand and colonise other planets, it stands to reason that any sentient and space-faring race will without exception consider us a potential threat. I also personally think the only reason this hasn't been announced, and that there is a cover-up, is that our society isn't even near ready to accept the concept that they exist and are around. Religion is still too influental, and society too immature, to begin to cope with the impact that such a thing would have.

EDIT - All the above are personal musings, and should be treated as such.
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  #28  
Old 29.04.2010, 12:16
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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Religious "we are the only ones created by God" bollocks aside, there is no doubt whatsoever that alien civilizations exist, it's pretty much mathematically impossible for them not to. Billions of galaxies, trillions of suns, gazillions of planets surrounding them. There has to be untold worlds capable of supporting life, and it stands to reason that proportionally a significant number hold life, and out of that proportion a number of species have evolved from primitive life into a complex society, a proportion of which will have developed space technology. When you factor that many will also have been evolving long before we were a twinkle in the universal eye, you have some crazy possibilites out there with regards to the kind of technology that they possess, things that our science can't explain, understand, or probably even imagine as yet. But then again we have been technologically aware for around 150 years, which in the grand scheme of things is laughable.

There will be benign, friendly aliens that want to help, and there will be hostile aleins that want to hurt. For all we know Earth may be the only resource-rich planet within a significant distance, so I personally don't think it is a good idea to bend over and offer our proverbial ringpiece to all and sundry without first developing technology capable of potentially neutralizing a threat without nuking it and ourselves... which is our main problem. When laser, plasma, gauss, and mass driver technology if fully developed then we will stand a fighting chance of protecting ourselves, and only then if we get some kind of planetary defence operational that will hit things before they have a chance to hit us. While I would never want to think we would fire without giving any species a chance to prove their intent, until we get off of this rock and start spreading ourselves around then we are sitting ducks for anything that wants to have their wicked way with us. And when you factor in that oil companies are purposefully limiting our energy development (which is understandable, it is an industry worth trillions, there is no way they will allow renewable technology to progress too far yet, they will trickle it through gradually so the economy survives and society keeps pace with the benefits) then we are not really going to hit the big-time for a while yet.

Personally while I am no tin-foil hat wearer, I believe that we have been in contact with other species for a while now, to my mind there is simply too much evidence to discount it, despite the smoke and mirrors surrounding it, and that we are very lucky that they aren't overtly hostile. They probably clocked us a loooong time ago and have monitored us for a good while, along with any other developing species they encounter. As we are progressing so fast and are historically such a warlike species, also due to our population and development dictating that we must expand and colonise other planets, it stands to reason that any sentient and space-faring race will without exception consider us a potential threat. I also personally think the only reason this hasn't been announced, and that there is a cover-up, is that our society isn't even near ready to accept the concept that they exist and are around. Religion is still too influental, and society too immature, to begin to cope with the impact that such a thing would have.

I am reading between the lines here but look how we have changed our minds about sending men into space. Look how we think that nuclear weapons are now a bad idea and we should decommission them. That Star Wars lasers are no longer desirable or workable - not even putting the same into orbit. There seems to me that there has been a change of policy that crosses country borders. I think we are responding to a delivered message that we can not ignore.
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  #29  
Old 29.04.2010, 12:18
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

It's OK, I can't speak Albanian anyway.

*puts on flame-retardant cloak and retreats*
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  #30  
Old 29.04.2010, 12:27
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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Our biggest fear about aliens could be more to do with any artifical intelligence automated defence systems they have created where these defence systems might far outlast the civilisation that created it and be running independently.
That's basically the plot of Forge of God by Greg Bear. Cheesy looking book and title but it's a very well written piece of hard science fiction. It offers a solution to the Fermi Paradox, where self replicating machines destroy potential threats to a civilization that perished long ago. Threats=radio transmissions; self replicating world destroyers=no radio .
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  #31  
Old 29.04.2010, 12:31
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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I am reading between the lines here but look how we have changed our minds about sending men into space. Look how we think that nuclear weapons are now a bad idea and we should decommission them. That Star Wars lasers are no longer desirable or workable - not even putting the same into orbit. There seems to me that there has been a change of policy that crosses country borders. I think we are responding to a delivered message that we can not ignore.
I wouldn't go so far as to speculate on messages recieved by anyone or anything, but I think nuclear technology will undergo a big resurgence as natural resources dwindle even further, and it's the only energy-source we know of in the public eye that is capable of producing the level of energy required to fuel real progress, and will pave the way for our future energy needs as the process is refined and improved http://www.gen-4.org/Technology/evolution.htm
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Old 29.04.2010, 12:34
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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That's basically the plot of Forge of God by Greg Bear. Cheesy looking book and title but it's a very well written piece of hard science fiction. It offers a solution to the Fermi Paradox, where self replicating machines destroy potential threats to a civilization that perished long ago. Threats=radio transmissions; self replicating world destroyers=no radio .
It would be easy for an advanced civilisation to place multiple nuclear warheads in low orbit and detonate them simultaneously. H-bombs would do nicely. No need for anything clever. No need to disintegrate the planet itself - just destroy or disrupt completely the current mix of life on it. Check again in a thousand years time.
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Old 29.04.2010, 12:36
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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I wouldn't go so far as to speculate on messages recieved by anyone or anything, but I think nuclear technology will undergo a big resurgence as natural resources dwindle even further, and it's the only energy-source we know of in the public eye that is capable of producing the level of energy required to fuel real progress, and will pave the way for our future energy needs as the process is refined and improved http://www.gen-4.org/Technology/evolution.htm
I agree. All that is needed is to find ways of better decommissioning radioactive material so that it does not leak its poisons into our water table. I believe they are close to finding a solution. Think of France where 80% of their electricity is from nuclear power. This is the path we should go down. Forget about wind farms.
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  #34  
Old 29.04.2010, 12:39
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

I think he is right, we should not communicate with aliens. Any advanced civilisation can couple microwaves with the radio waves, which can then be sent to every mobile user and fry our brians.

I would use speaker phone, just as precaution.
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  #35  
Old 29.04.2010, 12:43
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

aliens are already here, just look at gordon brown, what planet is he from???
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  #36  
Old 29.04.2010, 12:53
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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hmm not sure how many planets have water and oxygen in abundance on them. Did the original series of V and independence day teach you nothing??
They recently found some deep sea creatures that are not oxygen based. So oxygen is not a pre-requisite for life as was long thought.

As for talking to aliens I suppose it depends on the topic?
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Old 29.04.2010, 13:00
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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Are you an alien? C'mon, you can tell us.... we're all friends here!
Yeah I am your friend and I am an alien On planet huaa-huaa-heloha I am considered beautiful but when I step on the trams here ladies grab their bags, mums hug their kids tight and men clinch their fist. Humans are really strange and don't appreciate my beauty.
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Old 29.04.2010, 13:01
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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Old 29.04.2010, 15:09
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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They recently found some deep sea creatures that are not oxygen based. So oxygen is not a pre-requisite for life as was long thought.

As for talking to aliens I suppose it depends on the topic?
Many microbes do not need oxygen. One of the proposed defences against cancerous tumours is to inject them with bacteria that do not like oxygen. The bacteria will then eat the tumour and destroy it. The downside is the poisons they produce in the process but it still strikes me as being a valid approach for ridding cancerous tumours from the body.
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Old 30.04.2010, 06:44
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Re: Donít talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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Religious "we are the only ones created by God" bollocks aside, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that alien civilizations exist, it's pretty much mathematically impossible for them not to. Billions of galaxies, trillions of suns, gazillions of planets surrounding them. There has to be untold worlds capable of supporting life, and it stands to reason that proportionally a significant number hold life, and out of that proportion a number of species have evolved from primitive life into a complex society, a proportion of which will have developed space technology. When you factor that many will also have been evolving long before we were a twinkle in the universal eye, you have some crazy possibilites out there with regards to the kind of technology that they possess, things that our science can't explain, understand, or probably even imagine as yet. But then again we have been technologically aware for around 150 years, which in the grand scheme of things is laughable.

There will be benign, friendly aliens that want to help, and there will be hostile aleins that want to hurt. For all we know Earth may be the only resource-rich planet within a significant distance, so I personally don't think it is a good idea to bend over and offer our proverbial ringpiece to all and sundry without first developing technology capable of potentially neutralizing a threat without nuking it and ourselves... which is our main problem. When laser, plasma, gauss, and mass driver technology if fully developed then we will stand a fighting chance of protecting ourselves, and only then if we get some kind of planetary defence operational that will hit things before they have a chance to hit us. While I would never want to think we would fire without giving any species a chance to prove their intent, until we get off of this rock and start spreading ourselves around then we are sitting ducks for anything that wants to have their wicked way with us. And (again this is speculation on my part) when you factor in that oil companies are purposefully limiting our energy development (which is understandable, it is an industry worth trillions, there is no way they will allow renewable technology to progress too far yet, they will trickle it through gradually so the economy survives and society keeps pace with the benefits) then we are not really going to hit the big-time for a while yet.

Personally while I am no tin-foil hat wearer, I believe that we have been in contact with other species for a while now, to my mind there is simply too much evidence to discount it, despite the smoke and mirrors surrounding it, and that we are very lucky that they aren't overtly hostile. They probably clocked us a loooong time ago and have monitored us for a good while, along with any other developing species they encounter. As we are progressing so fast and are historically such a warlike species, also due to our population and development dictating that we must expand and colonise other planets, it stands to reason that any sentient and space-faring race will without exception consider us a potential threat. I also personally think the only reason this hasn't been announced, and that there is a cover-up, is that our society isn't even near ready to accept the concept that they exist and are around. Religion is still too influental, and society too immature, to begin to cope with the impact that such a thing would have.

EDIT - All the above are personal musings, and should be treated as such.
Good post I totally agree with you. I think they definately do exist and have definately already been in contact with us and is covered up. There is definately too much evidence to show that there is something going on. A very interesting thing to look at is this:

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