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Old 23.08.2006, 16:02
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Damage deposits on moving out

As I may be moving out of my flat soon, I'm interested in how much I'm going to be ripped off on the damage deposit.

Everyone I've spoken to tells me horror stories about landlords being out to 'do' you for anything they can when you move. I've also heard that after a given amount of time, it's considered that a flat needs renovating anyway.

When I took over the flat I remember being told that they allowed typically 10% deterioration due to 'wear and tear' on fixtures. Not sure how they quantify it but since I've been in the place for 7.5 years I reckon that I could have pretty much trashed the place (I haven't) and not be liable to pay much.

Anyone with experiences/tips....?

Gav
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Old 23.08.2006, 16:15
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

after 10 years in my last place, I moved out with a bill of 2800. Insurance covered 2400. Sorted.

Thes are supposed to be rules that over time there is depreciation and essential maintenance - but the insurance companies don't fight and it seems there is this "acceptance". I mean, part of the material for the switch back from ISDN to analogue was covered.

You have decent house insurance, I assume?
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Old 23.08.2006, 16:29
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

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after 10 years in my last place, I moved out with a bill of 2800. Insurance covered 2400. Sorted.

Thes are supposed to be rules that over time there is depreciation and essential maintenance - but the insurance companies don't fight and it seems there is this "acceptance". I mean, part of the material for the switch back from ISDN to analogue was covered.

You have decent house insurance, I assume?
It lapsed this year After 7 years of paying it. D'oh!

I assumed that because of the depreciation stuff there would be next to nothing to pay anyway. I mean, if 10% deterioration is allowed per year then after seven years there shouldn't have been a problem, right?

Oh well, yet again I get stung by making assumptions about Switzerland. I guess I can make a stink if they try to hit me for large amounts of repairs even though there's supposed to be reasonable wear and tear.


Gav
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Old 23.08.2006, 16:31
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Gav
10 years, about 280 a year. There is no escaping.
Can you swiftly un-lapse it?...!
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Old 23.08.2006, 16:33
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Moved 4 times, my experience has been that as long as the damage is not that 'bad' you shouldnt have any problems. Of course, this really depends on your landlord, experience says that companies are very tough while private owners not.

You need to watchout for the broken stuff. Dirty walls, stains on carpets, light scraches on parket floor, etc are considerd as part normal 'wear and tear'. Whatever is broke, try replacing it, so that the company doesnt come up with a 1000 Chf charge for changing a broken door handle, for example.
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Old 23.08.2006, 16:52
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Another thing is to think about getting a cleaning company to do the job. It costs a fortune to have a house cleaned to the standard required - something between 1-2k. But they will guarantee the work. In other words if some complains about some tiny corner in a cupboard that is not visible to the naked eye the company will take care of it.

Another strategy is to get an expat to take your place, they will be much more easy going and accept stuff more easily. The woman in my place beforehand was happy to have a foreigner take over - I couldn't give two hoots if the there was a tiny bit of mould along the inside edge of the dishwasher seal.
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Old 23.08.2006, 16:55
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

FWIW my place was in a 60-odd house complex....so the anal approach might've been there.

My missus left a place in a house and had a easy ride.

Spot Clean and Cucuzza are two firms I used in the past - both with handover guarantees. 3½ room place - 1050 with Cucuzza - but the bloke at handover had more to do than Spot Clean (but 10 -vs- 1 year residence).
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Old 23.08.2006, 17:46
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
Gav
10 years, about 280 a year. There is no escaping.
Can you swiftly un-lapse it?...!
Maybe ... I'll give it a go tomorrow.

I never cease to be amazed at the amount of times that I 'take something for granted' and then get stung because of it, here in CH.


Gav
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Old 23.08.2006, 17:51
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
Moved 4 times, my experience has been that as long as the damage is not that 'bad' you shouldnt have any problems. Of course, this really depends on your landlord, experience says that companies are very tough while private owners not.

You need to watchout for the broken stuff. Dirty walls, stains on carpets, light scraches on parket floor, etc are considerd as part normal 'wear and tear'. Whatever is broke, try replacing it, so that the company doesnt come up with a 1000 Chf charge for changing a broken door handle, for example.
I've got a set of bath/shower taps that are leaky and need replacing, also a valve in the toilet cistern which needs fixed/replaced.... Plus I drilled three holes in the wall to mount a projector, but then found out that it wasn't a suitable spot. I just covered them up with a picture and forgot about them for years. I could fill those in myself with some polyfilla I reckon. Also, the seal on the fridge is failing and needs replacing.

That's about all substantive 'damage' - could I for example employ a plumber to replace the leaky stuff myself and then present part of the bill to the management company I wonder?

I reckon that this allowance of 10% per year would let me bill them for 50% of replacement/repair cost, right?

Gav
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Old 23.08.2006, 19:55
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

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I I could fill those in myself with some polyfilla I reckon.
Toothpaste my friend ... toothpaste.
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Old 23.08.2006, 20:01
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Gav, generally the maximum you are liable for normal repairs is 1% of your yearly rent. As long as there is no negligence involved - for example something was broken and you not saying anything made it worse, then just call up the managing agent and give them a list of everything that needs to be fixed. They will arrange to have it repaired, and you might get a bill for 200 francs or so from them. It's also likely you won't get a bill at all.

Do minor repairs (polyfilla etc) yourself - easy and cheap - nothing to discuss.
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Old 23.08.2006, 20:03
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Leeks are usually responsabilty of the leasing company, anything that breaks down by normal usage like refrigerator, dish washer, water leeks, etc ... however some contracts indicate that if a minor fix got worse because you failed to notify them on time, they will charge you the complete amount of the fix; I hope this is not your case.

Also I hope you wrote the things that were already broken in your 'protokol' as soon as you moved in.

Anyways, its not as bad as the cleaning of the apartment ... that is indeed terrible. During our second move-out the representative of the company inspected our apartment using white gloves ... bastard !

Wish you luck
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Old 23.08.2006, 20:35
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

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Leeks are usually responsabilty of the leasing company
Hm, I thought they were those onion-like things....


Quote:
During our second move-out the representative of the company inspected our apartment using white gloves ... bastard !
That is just unbelieveable. Absurd, even.
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Old 23.08.2006, 20:56
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

A question since I am newbie still: since when do home contents' insurances pay for things that in other cultures are not even considered repairs?

Is this a special Swiss thing? I.e., since the level of required cleaning is different here, the insurance companies also provide a different kind of coverage?

I mean, Lob Rockster, how on earth can they charge you 2800 CHF? To me it sounds like 95% of it should have been covered by the landlord anyway, unless you ripped up the front lawn or something
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Old 23.08.2006, 21:57
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

1100 francs of that was a stained bathroom surface. Cunningly the cleaners actually did this.

Painting, chipped porcelain, you name it.

The insurance company pretty much did not cover consumables (duh) and there is a deduction per room of 100 or 200.

And the good news is that they wrote my parkette off; my dogs made it even worse than it was when I moved in.
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Old 24.08.2006, 11:10
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

We had huge problems when we left an apartment in Zurich owned by the landlord from Hell. He did the white glove test in the cellar, brought industrial strength spotlights to inspect the wooden floor with, tried to say that things that had been proffesionaly cleaned were still dirty to name but a few of the problems. We had heard that other people who had moved out of our building had problems with him so my husband arranged for a rep from the Mieterverband (sp?) to be there for the handover. The landlord & the Meiterverband guy ended up in a huge shouting match because of the landlords crap. The guy said the lanlord was the worst he had ever come across. It could not be resolved so the Kriesbeuro got involed as mediators.

In the end he claimed for CHF7000 from our insurance for all the "damage" we had caused in the 9 months we lived there. I called the insurance to let them know he was ripping them off but they paid out anyway which we were not happy about. He also kept some of our deposit for "damage" not covered by insurance, which he took the full year to return.

I'm happy to say I've also had good experiences when moving. Hopfully you will not have a hard time when you leave.
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Old 24.08.2006, 11:34
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
Hm, I thought they were those onion-like things....




That is just unbelieveable. Absurd, even.
Hey, it's Switzerland. Amazing how such things are not in the realm of 'no way could that happen' here.

If it's in the law or there's a rule about it then some people seemingly will go to enormous lengths to get their 'rights'. Also, it boils down to how determined you are to get your rights because such things cut both ways.

If someone really wants to act like a pr*ck and be ludicrously anal about stuff like 'damage' and 'unclean' apartments, are you going to drag it through all the processes and take it to court, costing you possibly thousands in the process and of course blighting your life in the meantime?

Sadly it appears that there are plenty of people here who are determined to get their way and if you happen to butt heads with them they are more than willing to make things as hard for you as possible. I would suspect that they get some sort of perverse pleasure and feeling of control out of it.

That;s why I always get a nagging feeling of nervousenss here when going into a situation where somebody _could_ raise a stink if they were so minded or especially petty. I've seen and heard about seemingly ridiculous situations arising many times since living in Switzerland. I think it's part of an invisible aura of tension that I seem to experience here. Or maybe I'm just becoming extremely paranoid

Gav
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Old 24.08.2006, 12:09
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
I think it's part of an invisible aura of tension that I seem to experience here. Or maybe I'm just becoming extremely paranoid
Ha Haaaaa! that's so funny! Welcome to Switzerland! Enjoy the Aura of Tension! Don't be Happy - Just Worry!

The guy in my building makes a point of collecting the fluff from the dryer and parcelling it up into small, sealable plastic bags, like you would a certain herb, and markedly leaving it on your laundry pile. Even when you havn't finished your laundry. What The...??? I think these people prowl around, waiting to catch you out. It's hard not to become confrontational. I wonder how the Dalai Lama deals with it here...
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Old 24.08.2006, 12:20
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

I'm fascinated reading about these people.

How sad must their own life be?

Unless they're just picking on the foreigners...
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Old 24.08.2006, 12:27
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Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
I wonder how the Dalai Lama deals with it here...
Bend like a reed in the wind

or:

Bend and be straight;
Empty and be full;
Wear out and be new
Have little and gain;
Have much and be confused. (Tao Te Ching, XXII)
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