Hi,

I am sure this is not a new topic in the English Forum!

My girlfriend has a problem with her neighbour, he is very loud all times of the day, even past midnight shouting at his kids or down the telephone, smoking on the balcony so we can't open the window, and he doesn't work so he's always there.

She has asked him to keep the noise down several times but he's aggressive back to her and doesn't take any notice and has slammed the door in her face before. She has rightly given up trying and just bangs on the wall out of frustration now, to which he just bangs back. I had the pleasure of meeting him the other day, he literally pushed his way into the lift when we were going, just stood there, STINKING of alcohol and when I said the floor number, he snorted back "oui merci BEAUcoup" and just stared at me the whole two floors, shot a filthy look at my girlfriend, and stalked out the lift, letting the door slam back in our faces. The guy is a total lowlife. His kids throw plastic bottles and vegetables out of the window, too, and when he's out, they make loads of noise, too, it sounds like they are constructing something or moving furniture all the time. It's really unbearable.



But what do we do about it? My girlfriend has been in tears because of it and something has got to give. Moving could be an option but you never know what neighbours you are going to find again in this crazy place, and you can't keep running.

My girlfriend has complained to the Regie and they said to do a recording of the noise, which she has done. They then unhelpfully suggested that they "put everyone in a room together" but she rightfully refused since this is not her job to face him after his behaviour in the past, and if she complains and he knows it's her, it's going to be 10 times worse when the regie is not around. Since the guy drinks all the time, she doesn't feel safe when I am not around.

I have said we will now go to the regie together, and I am going to push hard for them to do something about it and get something in place officially, even if it means going back there and making a complaint every week.

Is there anything else we could do? I've heard about ASLOCA but not sure if they would help, if the regie proves to be as useless as they have been.

Alternatively, if anyone has a big dog and knows a couple of guys who are looking for an hour's work, travel expenses and dog food will be paid ...

Thanks,
M

Yeah, unfortunately, there is really nothing you can do here. And, it has nothing to do with Switzerland, you and her are fighting a losing battle here with this guy. It will get worse if you get involved, especially if you are not on the lease. Sorry to say but I strongly recommend that she moves. ASAP. Good luck.

Thanks RachelS, that's unfortunate but kind of what I thought, too ... Will see what the regie does, and moving could be an option but we were only hoping to stay here for another 12 months or so, this whole experience with crazy, thoughtless, rude people in Switzerland is really spoiling my time here

You have the right to quietness after 8 pm and complete peace after 10 pm. Do not attempt any further complaint or negotiation, simply get rid of him.

As he makes regular noises call the police at 22:01, each time asking the police for the call out serial number, for future reference.

After 3 complaints you can ask the Regie to chuck them out. If they refuse, go to the Justice de la Paix, quoting the three call outs:
http://ge.ch/justice/justice-de-paix

Thank you! I didn't know that ... Will pass on the message

Also, are there any others in the building who have been affected by this noisy tenant? It always helps to have extra witnesses so that its not a "he said/she said" situation. I would make recordings of the noise levels prior to calling the police, and continue recording until the police arrive. If this tenant (or his children) is (are) throwing anything off the balcony, grab a camera(phone) and try to take video or pictures of it as it is happening. One rule that seems to be consistent the world over is that the person who has the most documentation wins in court.

Urgh, that sounds so frustrating. But I wonder how much you can really do about it?

I don't want to sound like a devil's advocate but if he's smoking on his balcony, I would think he has the right to do so. Again, I totally feel for you as we have neighbors below (otherwise lovely though) who smoke indoors and one room in our house gets a yucky smoke smell. We just accept that this is their right as it is their home. We put a plug-in air freshener and that handles it fairly well. Honestly, if it was the whole house smelling, we'd move. This is a building issue..etc...as it's a 19th century building. Also, I have to add that it's a good thing he smokes outside rather than indoors given he has children.

You might have more of a case with the noise although it's not the usual television/music sort of stuff. It basically sounds like a guy with a loud voice doing otherwise normal stuff in his flat like talking on the phone. Good luck and let us know how it goes. In the meantime, I'd wear earplugs at night so you can at least get some rest.

Why is it that after living for 45 years in Switzerland I have never had to complain about any crazy, thoughtless, or rude people ? In fact it's quite the opposite, I've always felt that I'm living in a really solid and friendly social frame.

However, when I think of England and the 'types' we had to put up with there it's still paradise for me here.

If you have such a neighbour there's not much you can do - except move of course - most things turn out for the better if you choose a radical way. Immobilienverwaltungen can only threaten with giving notice and such an end takes years.

Have some sharp words with the regie again- if they will not help go to asloca:

http://www.asloca.ch/?q=node/57

This is totally unacceptable behaviour from the regie and neighbour.

Yeah, in her shoes i probably would move, simply because its the easier way out, and nothing can be as bad as feeling threatened and insecure while walking up to, being in, your own house. Even if the guy gets evicted, if he realises it was her who started it all, who knows what these people are capable off. Sorry i do not want to scare you or her, but that's just how I would feel.

However, Sbrinz is completely right, you have the right to quiet, you can call the police and the guidelines and clear and on the side of the victim in Switzerland.

with the housing situation what it is in Geneva, I would suggest both getting ASLOCA and the regie involved and looking to move. That way, maybe things can progress or change in the very long time taken to get a new flat. If only things in Geneva (or anywhere in the arc lemanique) were as simple as packing up and moving.

I would enroll in Asloca before calling the cops though, otherwise it is "pre-existing"

Sounds like a typical Frenchman.

Dear Momus,

Sorry to hear that your girlfriend is having such an awful time with her neighbours and is presumbly 'venting' her frustration towards you at times, we had very similar problems with a downstairs neighbour and his wife(italians in my case) and after years of complaining to the regie and trying to sort things out via Asloca we were eventually forced to move.

That said, do join Asloca (they can often help, in our case it was difficult because the man involved was very chummy with the technical staff at our regie), try asking around to see if any other people in the building are affected by this man's behaviour and keep a 'disturbance diary', with photos and recordings if possible.

Otherwise, is it possible for her to move into your place for the coming months until you leave (I'm assuming you don't live at her place)?
Looking for a new flat will be very difficult given Geneva's housing situation at the moment.

Good luck, A

If you feel that the Regie have not done enough to get this guy to tone it down you should threaten to go to mediation. This means paying your rent into court until a panel has listened to both sides of the story and makes a recommendation on how it should be dealt with. It focusses the landlord in as much as until the hearing has taken place he is not getting his rent. ASLOCA can tell you how to go about this.

I am down with the hour work idea. My dog is not so big, although somehow manages to scare the shit out of people, but he doesn't need to get involved.

When u want to send round the heavies?

Well if you were in Zurich I would gladly go round there with a couple of mates. I had an upstairs neighbour in Australia that loved to stomp around at all hours and after a few stern words one night I never heard much as a peep out of him

I reckon thats the best solution if your girlfriend doesn't want to move....

and what make you say that?