After reading the many posts about complaining neighbours and thinking, I must have really understanding ones, I am now on the receiving end of moaning neighbours

I have a 4yo,2yo and a newborn and i could foresee noise becoming an issue as they are noisy (despite best efforts to keep them quiet) every time we go to the lift they have a 'discussion' on who gets to press the button, they get excited on a trip to the laundry and generally shriek on the way to the garage, I do my best to keep them quiet in the apartment but they are kids and young ones that just dont gett he concept of annoying other people they cant see (perfectly understand annoying someone they can see :)
The apartments are new and most are owned I think and are supposed to be family friendly - there is a play area right infront of my flat.
The guy opposite has party's going on till 3am at least once a month and the old lady downstairs has the most annoying yappy dog that barks everytime it goes in or out.
This is what our agent sent to us in an email

'And a special request was put forward in so far that several neighbours feel disturbed by your children’s frequent and consistant screaming, both in the apartment and the staircase, and they would appreciate if the noise level was kept down. I am sure you were not aware that, despite the modern building standard and the latest in insulation technology, noise travelled so well and I am sure that you find a solution to ensure a good neighbourly cohabitation. Thank you very much for your understanding.'

Our agent is very pleasant and she is only passing on what has been said at the residents meeting. I only know a few of the neighbours and only to say hello to if we bump into them which is not often.
So my question is how to I go about calming the situation down before it gets unpleasant?
Obviously I will try to keep the kids quiet but what can i do besides this?
should I write a note saying I appreciate that we are loud and will try to keep quiet sorry for the disturbance...blaa bla be very humble and apologetic?
Should I suggest they personally come and say when we are particularly noisy? or is that admitting that we are unacceptably loud and encouraging complaining? - my husbands hates this approach he is very mad that they haven't complained in person and thinks he has every right to live 'normally'
but i really dont want to start a war with anyone is this the right thing to do or just silly? we only have 8 flats in this block and we cant possibly disturb them all can we

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I wouldnt really write anything....just have your kids be more outside is all I can say. let them play all day long and only in to eat. It is like a dog basically, let it play all day and it will go right to sleep when home....

Thats easier said than done with 3 and one of which is a fussy newborn, and there is only so much walking a toddler will tolerate, that said we are out most of the time at least 4 mornings and 2 afternoons a week and saturdays we are pretty much out all day, but on the other hand why cant I be at home if I want? we pay a fortune in rent to enjoy it!

Interesting comment from a school teacher

im not a school teacher, far from it actually. im in the private university business.....recruiting

I can imagine that the shared apt hallway gets noisy, it gets noisy with everybody in a normal house, animals, high heels, people moving stuff, drunk neighbors coming home from parties, etc..So don't get all paranoid about only your kids being noisy .

On the other hand, every single time we have gone out of our apartment with our toddler, and I mean literally every single time (it's a lot of work) we have made a huge point about whispering and being quiet so the neighbors have their peace. It is hard with little kids, but if you do it every single time, they get it! You just have to be consistent. It helped telling our child that neighbors have a baby and we must keep really quiet so it does not wake up.

It is extremely difficult with the wee kiddos, since ever since they find out the noise travels (and they do, very early) they yodel, sing, shout, etc. to hear their voice echo, it is a normal way to train their vocal chords and ears, part of learning how to cotrol their lang production, etc. Good luck and don't be offended the neighbors made an official complaint, things are sorted this way here, through a mediator, that's what the agency is paid for.

I have just been on a train with some small US kids visiting their grandparents here and I have to say that the concept of "behaved" kids there and here is very different.

PS - ever since our child was born, I leave either xmas and new years card in neighbors mailbox or a paper plate with home made cookies, saying we are sorry if our little monkey is causing any sleepless nights, etc. It is a little formal gesture, but it helped a lot, too, to have the neighbors more understanding.

Difficult one. First of all get some legal insurance to cover any family problems in the home: it might cost about CHF 120 per year but might be money well spent. You can't claim for existing problems, but things sometimes escalate.

Maybe then write a sweet letter to your landlord with copies to all your neighbours explaining that you were unaware that their high spirits were causing distress, and ask the neighbours where you legally stand on the issue, but promising to ask the children to be quieter.

http://www.ch.ch/private/00029/00038...x.html?lang=en

You can make as much noise as you wish (I think) between 6 and 12 and about 14 to 20.00. After 20.00 you should be able to hear your TV without disturbances, i.e. no children noise, no drilling holes in walls. After 22.00 you have to be completely quiet, i.e. no slamming doors, running vacuum cleaners etc. The regulations vary slightly with where you live, best to ask at the local police station.

Just ignore them, always, always say Gruezi and Guete Morgen but nothing else. Don't bother trying to be "nice" or talk to them about the issue. It will make no difference what so ever to their behavior, they will complain anyway.

Your children have a right to be children so there is nothing they can do about children making noise, no matter how many letters they write you.

Once you find this status quo, you will, with time, probably find that they thaw to you and you can start up with a bit more interaction and chit-chat. But that will take years.

Lumping you in with a guy having parties until 3 am and a woman with a yappy dog is a bit off. Your kids are (most likely) making noise during daylight hours, i.e. not in the middle of the night.

Do people expect when they move into a building which has children it is going to be deathly silent all the time??

I hear the kids from a couple of floors up come clattering down the stairs with mum shouting after them "Be quiet!!" but it's only for a maximum of 2 minutes until they are out of the door and on their way, plus it doesn't even register with me half the time because for me it is "normal" living noise.

I think your landlady was wrong to "pass on the message" from your neighbours. She should be savvy enough to tell them that this is acceptable daytime noise and putting it in a letter to you won't do anything to change the situation.

Don't try to stifle your kids too much. I find myself doing that with my son (on trams/trains and at home sometimes, too) then instantly regret it. This kiddie exuberance is raw and new for such a short period in their lives, it's a shame to constantly smother it. They will learn when it is and is not appropriate to run about care-free shouting like a banshee soon enough.

Continue as you were and if the guy's parties or old lady's dog gets too much, call the police - that will shut them up (just joking about that last bit)

I can completely sympathise with you. I have two energetic kids and until last October lived of the 5th floor. When we left there the kids were 3 and 5 yrs old, liked driving their cars in the apartment, jumping and screaming in the stairwell, fighting over the lift button etc etc.
in the play area they would have screaming competitions and hissy fits and I was always on edge.
Noone actually complained and all the non kidded folks were at work or elderly happy folks but that whole worry stifled our fun somewhat.

I was lucky because we bought a house and I could not be happier. if you can move (even to a ground floor apartment) then half the flash is gone - even just being able to let the kids jump up and down excitedly is great. I would have told them off before for daring to have such wild emotions

If moving in the long term is not an optin then i would go for the suck up option. Maybe have the kids make easter cards for all the neighbours - put a little message from the kids saying hope we haven't upset you by being kids 8well maybe more subtle) and see if that changes attitudes.

good luck and hope the situation improves

caz

This is kinda off your specific topic but just wanted to share that I'm American and have been shushed at by my own Swiss husband for talking too loud at a public restaurant. It wasn't one of those fancy restaurants either, just one of those typical Swiss ones, but apparently I was too excited about telling a story and talking louder than normal and people were staring. So in conclusion is if you plan on staying long in Switzerland my take is that I would really try to teach my kids how to be more quite in public areas. In the long run they'll be more adjusted to the culture here, otherwise they'll be like me... all American and rude when they are older

I so know where you are coming from...

You describe a typical day for us/my wife (5 yr, 3.5 yr and 23 mo). That noise just seems to get amplified in the stairwell, doesn't it!

We've been very fortunate regarding neighbours, in that - touch wood - no one has complained.

I don't have a solution, I'm sorry to say, but a couple of suggestions:
1) can you stagger departure times (when with your other half) so that the children go down separately? Not helpful when on your own, but I am very conscious of the noise as we leave the appartment on weekend mornings for a day trip so we do it this way
2) try to get out as much as possible as others have posted
3) rewards for who can make the least noise?
4) turns for who can press the lift button - one child for down, the other for up on the return

Regarding the neighbours, I would be tempted to invite them round for afternoon drinks to get to know you better. This might relieve some of the tension - people are less likely to complain and more likely to be tolerant if they know you better IMO.

Inviting them in for group sex is usually a good idea, unless of course they accept. Otherwise they are usually so embarrassed that they will cease to complain.

What time are your kids making a lot of noise to "upset" people. I've found out the hard way what it is like to be on the receiving end.

We are still suffering from the "vampires" upstairs after year:
Kids doing nightshift!

I'm usually a fairly easy going person, but the noise this family generates late a night has brought out the very worst in me (and I kind of hate them for that mainly). After 3 or more AM visits from me (without wooden stake), angrily handing a printout of the building rules (10pm to 7am "quiet time") they have nearly complied with our compromise that it's OK to have the kids running around until 11pm

Frankly, respect has gone out the window, I no longer care that we have recently placed our babies "crying room" under the parents bedroom or whether my stereo is too loud during the day.

The light at the end of the tunnel is that we will be shifting out later this year!

If that was the case here i could understand the complaints but the kids are in bed by 7.30 and noise levels are greatly reduced by at least 7pm and thankfully not a peep from them till around 7am, I am blessed with a very quiet newborn who thankfully has never wailed inconsolably at me in the early hours (probably just jinxed that)

The Swiss, organised as they are, have devised a way round this problem. At lunch time and after say 10pm then you should try not to make too much noise. At all other times noise is OK. If you have small children then this is quite normal. My Swiss wife assures me that as long as you stick to these times then nobody else has a leg to stand on. The average Swiss has been brought up with these "rules" from a tender age and will then be happy. If they do complain then at least you know, and can point out, that you have the right on your side.

Wish you were our neighbours! I think your apartment must populated by older childless people who have forgotten what a child is. Sorry I cant give much advice other than keep going on as is and maybe put on a show by "overly" loudly asking your kids to be quiet