House rules apply even if you own the appartment. However, whereas a baby crying is certainly annoying for the neighbours, it is considered "acceptable noise" even in Switzerland, as this is not something the parents can avoid, even if they do their best. Which of course does not mean that the neighbours are not allowed to find it disturbing, they (or the landlord) just can't do anything about it. As some people have mentioned earlier, it is usually easier to share a house with people in similar stages of life and habits and therefore for a family with young kids, a house with other similar families is simply more suitable than say, a house with retired couples who really like their peace and quiet. So it's only reasonable from the point of view of the landlord to try and find a tenant who would fit in. I don't see why this was groan-worthy.

Is the appartment subsidised or owned by some not-for-profit setup? Quite often such non profit oriented groups will aim to achieve a certain ethnical and/or social mix that reflects the population as a whole. This is why they will ask such questions. Sometimes some appartments are also set apart specifically for families so being pregnant might be an advantage.

Hi,

when we were searching for a nice place to stay in the area of Lausanne, all the agencies asked if we were planning to have children.
Maybe it's my age (31).... but the worst part was that they didn't ask this question directly to me, but to the relocation agent who joined us..... In French...!! (they thought that I couldn't understand them).
So, all the times I answered (in French) that there were no plans at all.
It's like with having a job interview, they don't have the right to ask you this question - but they will try
Meanwhile, we found a very nice house and fortunately I'm still not pregnant

That is really the case.

Based on what? Are there a list of acceptable questions? I don't know about you, but "Is your wife pregnant" seems a bit intrusive to me. Almost discriminatory. There are laws against discrimination, so why is it within the law to ask such questions?

I accept that there are some apartments that have limitations based upon salary range. This is usually to allow lower paid people find acceptable accommodation. But these are usually co-opted properties that are run with that purpose in mind. And, let's be honest, those that are paid higher would probably not want to live there in the first place. And those that aren't Swiss stand little or no chance of getting on the waiting list in the first place (I know this from experience).

I'd be interested in any references that you have that quote the particular law related to this.

Just an update, I called the rental agency and they informed me that we were rejected. I'm a little on the downer since I put a lot of effort into this application, I'm debating whether I honestly want to continue staying here, where it feels like there is some implicit prejudice based on nationality, religion (from what I hear), family status (married/single/pregnant), etc...at least when it comes to housing

I understand how this makes for a perfectly harmonious living community, but from this thread and what some EFfers have told me this weekend it seems like they aren't very keen on integration across communities, socio-economic backgrounds, and so forth...when it comes to housing at least. I've heard often enough that there are neighbourhoods for foreigners or low-income people. I even heard that the preference ladder for getting an apartment (of course there are exceptions) is: Caucasian Swiss, Caucasian EU, Other EU, Brown Skin or Srilankan looking, Balkan, Black African, i've always been one to shoo away such thoughts. I find it surreal that this possibly exists in this day and age (actually after reading the threads on 'how immigrants are stealing my job', maybe not)

I've never searched so long and hard for to find a place in London, the US and Zimbabwe. It seemed that all that mattered was money, and while I disliked that I'd now prefer that reasoning hands down. My last few weeks of apartment hunting is turning me off on the local culture regarding housing matters completely. I just want to pay the money (that's never been a limiting factor, but I can't quite afford an Immobilienmäkler yet) and have a well located, comfortable apartment.

I apologise, and know that this is a well discussed topic on this forum, I just need to vent my frustrations. If anyone knows of a good place in Winterthur downtown, any info would be appreciated. I'll buy you a pint and a packet at every Drinks event for a long time coming.

Cheers

I'm Sorry to hear you lost the apartment. When my wife and I first moved to Geneva, we got rejected a lot, (ironically because we did not have children) We were looking for an apartment with 3 bedrooms and they thought that it should only go to people with children. Eventually we found a place, by looking in want ads from people who needed to leave and needed to give names of potential tenants to the regie. Best of luck in your search.

haha, yes very weird thread!!!
The guy definitely became swiss!

Yes, its terrible here, don't take it personnally.

As for law (cf your initial question), don't believe many comments:
There's often discrimination, illegal. BUT it would be pain and useless to fight it to the court.

And yes, it would help you to be "swiss", I had juge problems even being "white" and "french nationality". I could not apply to 1 agency because I did not have Swiss ID or Swiss passport.... Permis B, French passport, etc... were not good enough, I needed Swiss document.

Why?
it's in case I leave the country.... what about deposit then? what about my job?- whatever.

you're not swiss, good luck

Its normal to feel like this. Dont worry though. Soon you will find a place and you will start having such a good time here you wont want to leave

There's no "feels like" about it, the system is discriminatory. The best chance you have is forking out for a Swiss relocation agent who will do all the talking etc for you... they often have good relationships with the agencies and give you a much better chance of finding somewhere... though not without some cost.

I genuinely feel for you having had such crappy luck, but that is the system here... no-one wants to rock the boat, and if you aren't European, German-speaking, childless and earning a semi-decent wage then be prepared for a rough ride getting settled into any apartment. Must be very stressful for you, and I wish you luck.

Ah that sucks. I am sorry to hear that dude. Did you ask them for a reason?

Dont let this get you down. Its one of the downers living in this country - the challenge of finding a roof over your head. Hang in there. Lots of us have been through the same thing and come out at the other end, relatively unscathed albeit a little traumatised

For some money is not the most important factor. There is a group of criteria that makes a perfect tenant and I wouldn't chose a tenant solely on the rent basis. For example I could consider:
- local / diplomatic status / long-term permit / short-term permit
- contract length
- ratio rent/earnings
- man/woman? family? children? car?
- gut feeling (and this one implicitly covers all kind of stereotypes)

After all I'm for the right of the owners to decide how their private property will be used without all the discrimination/racism/political correctness laws (bulls***).

I agree that that's what everyone implicitly does, but without going into any personal details, here's how we come up on all those matters:

Permit Status:
Both spouse and I are on long-term permits working for Swiss Federal Institutions

Contract Length:
Spouse - indefinite (she's a post doc till september and then an asst. prof)
Me- At least half a decade

Ratio of rent to earnings:
We're significantly well off

Marital Status:
Young, married, strong careers. No plans of children (what the agency wanted)

Gut Feeling:
I visited them, tried being very amicable, even spoke as German as i possibly could. I really wanted this place

Now honestly, what possible reason could I be given for not getting the apartment? I'm waiting for the rejection letter...

the trouble is your putting all your eggs in 1 basket, you need to be applying for loads of places.

If the area you want to live in is popular then your up against people who earn more then you, are swiss, are quiet etc etc take your pick. The landlord wants the best tennent they can get, and someone was better then you, move on.

Look further afield, pick a smaller village, you'll have much better luck.

Look at it from the landlords point of view, your a young couple, you don't earn a great deal and the odds on you up and leaving (or breaking up) are pretty high, could 1 of you afford the rent on your own etc etc etc. How you reassure them is anyones guess, ironically having a child in the local school helped us with the landlady.

On paper you seem like a good candidate (in my opinion anyways) - no pets, no children, both earning a comfortable living. However, it really depends on the landlord or landlady per se. Perhaps they had to look at who else was living in that building and see if its a good fit. Who knows there are a bunch of fuddy duddies living in there and they think that a young couple might hold regular dinner parties, disturbing the peace - which might not apply in your case but when you are faced with a pile of applications, you just have to pick the suitable tenant just by whats on the application. Maybe its just because you are not holding a Swiss passport. It can be as simple as that. Harsh but thats the way it is here.

We never really know what goes on in their heads unfortunately. If you've met with the agent and had a nice chat, why not ask them the reason for the rejection if its bothering you that much?

I've never gotten a rejection letter here in Zurich - usually never hearing from them or a rejection via a phone call. Not sure if it works the same in Winterthur.

My advice is to stop over-analysing, let this go and start sending applications even if you think the apartment is just alright. Good luck dude.

most likely there will be a simple "We picked someone else, sorry"

Hey
keep apply Summerrain is right don t analyse too much
who know how they decide
let share our experience with you
we had a relocation agent
husband had a good job
Good Salary
Work Contrat
Company in Zurich
No kids
one cat
B permit
he put an application for 18 Appartments
and only two said yes
and two that are ok but not the most modern
from the picture he took ,i was still working
in the USA
he loved one place,saw it first,run to the Agency with the
relocation agent,who spoke German to them and two weeks
after they told us no.
So keep visiting and you will find a place.
best luck to you.

Reading through the posts about how some people find it difficult to find accommodation I just wonder if it is something to do with trying to get a Wohnung using a Makler, almost everybody I know has had some kind of problem with one of these buggers, i.e. rent application: "Only for Swiss, foreigners need not apply."
or having to show the last four months wage slips and background checks if the company you are working for is valid Swiss company and has work or is it bankrupt or will it be soon, or if you have ever been in a Betreibung.
But I suppose If I had a flat to rent out I would not want to let the Ausländer Riff raff in my house...
And at the end of the day a Makler wants money for doing the job so when I pay for it, it should be done right (notice dripping sarcasm)
I found my flat in the local budgie cage liner paper. It is a miniature, one roomed, kitchen, bathroom thingy, hardly enough room to swing a cat around, but I have been in it now for over four years.
I did not see the landlord for seven months after I moved in and after I said OK on the telephone, he just said the contract is in the kitchen, just sign and send it back.
I get asked every now and then if everything is OK! I say "yup" and do not see a soul for the next six months or so.
Methinks that is the way it should be.

From my experience, they are making very simple decisions, based on money and origin. If there's someone Swiss/German who's earning more money at a respectable company, they'll take them.

Guess what! The parents of the kid (s) find the crying annoying also! We are only family in our building and never any complaints. I think its boring to lump everyone similiar together, but guess that's Swiss socieyy, from schooling to work enviroment to where people live. Ah Switzerland, so perfect, but actually it's not. I take it you didn't cry as a baby? I find the smokers here much more annoying then a baby crying. Groan well deserved