Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Insurance
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26.11.2010, 19:01
porsch1909
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

I have private liability insurance with axa winterthur and have coverage for occasional usage of a 3rd party vehicle. Now I understand that in Switzerland the car is covered and not the person. So the private liability insurance covers me if I crash someone else's car and they lose no claims. Makes sense.

So I phoned and asked if this cover is international. And the guy said yes. And I was quite happy that when I go back to the motherland I can drive my parent's car and be covered.

Then it dawned on me that he probably doesn't realise that in other countries car insurance doesn't quite work in the same way as in Switzerland.

So if I go back to the mighty UK and crash my Dad's merc will I be covered for the repair or just for his lost no claims bonus?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 26.11.2010, 19:58
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 8,852
Groaned at 86 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 7,398 Times in 3,732 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Quote:
View Post
I have private liability insurance with axa winterthur and have coverage for occasional usage of a 3rd party vehicle. Now I understand that in Switzerland the car is covered and not the person. So the private liability insurance covers me if I crash someone else's car and they lose no claims. Makes sense.

So I phoned and asked if this cover is international. And the guy said yes. And I was quite happy that when I go back to the motherland I can drive my parent's car and be covered.

Then it dawned on me that he probably doesn't realise that in other countries car insurance doesn't quite work in the same way as in Switzerland.

So if I go back to the mighty UK and crash my Dad's merc will I be covered for the repair or just for his lost no claims bonus?

I believe he means if you drive the Swiss car to another country.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 26.11.2010, 20:08
Blonaybear's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Blonay
Posts: 1,596
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 811 Times in 431 Posts
Blonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

To drive a car in the UK you need a certificate of insurance issued by a recognised insurer confirming you have the minimum cover as required by the Road Traffic Act.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blonaybear for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 26.11.2010, 20:20
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: north
Posts: 6,134
Groaned at 226 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 5,094 Times in 2,632 Posts
rob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

and if you do have an accident or get a speeding fine in UK in a UK car, whoever is the RK of the car will also be charged with letting someone drive the car without insurance - 6 points and about 3 or 400 pound penalty.

always make sure when driving someone elses car in the UK they have "any driver" listed in the policy.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 26.11.2010, 20:21
porsch1909
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Quote:
View Post
To drive a car in the UK you need a certificate of insurance issued by a recognised insurer confirming you have the minimum cover as required by the Road Traffic Act.
That clears that up then!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 26.11.2010, 20:29
porsch1909
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

So what does everybody do when wanting to drive on a friend or relative's policy as a non resident in UK
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26.11.2010, 20:50
Blonaybear's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Blonay
Posts: 1,596
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 811 Times in 431 Posts
Blonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Quote:
View Post
So what does everybody do when wanting to drive on a friend or relative's policy as a non resident in UK
Get them to extend their policy to include you as a driver.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26.11.2010, 21:02
porsch1909
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Quote:
View Post
Get them to extend their policy to include you as a driver.
As soon as you say non-resident they usually run a mile though
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26.11.2010, 21:17
Blonaybear's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Blonay
Posts: 1,596
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 811 Times in 431 Posts
Blonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Quote:
View Post
As soon as you say non-resident they usually run a mile though
There are insurers who offer temperory cover. Google 'uk temperory motor insurance'. I don't know any of them so this is not a recommendation but, it might be the answer to your problem.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blonaybear for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 17.12.2015, 09:48
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

This is an old thread but it doesn't really give a clear answer and I can't find one anywhere else.

Does anyone have direct experience of using their Swiss Personal Liability insurance to drive a UK car?

Meaning experience of it being checked and confirmed OK / not OK, making a claim, or getting some sort of helpful paperwork - just driving and not being caught / having a problem doesn't really count

Or is there a definitive view from an insurance expert?

My Zurich policy has all the right words for this - but whether this is valid in UK road law is the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17.12.2015, 10:10
RufusB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: In my head. And UK. Ex-Basel.
Posts: 1,518
Groaned at 33 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 1,991 Times in 852 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Hi


Can you phone and ask them the very plain question "Am I insured to drive in the UK?"


Most companies record everything now anyway - and not just "for training purposes" and in my experience what you are told regarding insurance, even if the person on the line gets it a bit wrong, they have to honour it. Or at least not penalise you for it.


I haven't had this experience with cars, but I have with home insurance. They checked their tapes and made good etc.


We have car insurance on our Swiss car here that is fully comp and Europe wide, but I assume you'd like to be insured in the UK on a non-Swiss car? If it is a rental, don't they offer insurance as standard? If a private vehicle owned by friend or family member, they would have to sort that with their own insurance - it may just be a line confirming your age/gender/occupation/years driving without accident or claim etc - and then you should be ok. The kicker is, however, it probably won't be cheap, but it will depend entirely on the company and the "relationship" they have with your friend/family member.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank RufusB for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 17.12.2015, 10:18
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Quote:
View Post
Hi


Can you phone and ask them the very plain question "Am I insured to drive in the UK?"


Most companies record everything now anyway - and not just "for training purposes" and in my experience what you are told regarding insurance, even if the person on the line gets it a bit wrong, they have to honour it. Or at least not penalise you for it.


I haven't had this experience with cars, but I have with home insurance. They checked their tapes and made good etc.


We have car insurance on our Swiss car here that is fully comp and Europe wide, but I assume you'd like to be insured in the UK on a non-Swiss car? If it is a rental, don't they offer insurance as standard? If a private vehicle owned by friend or family member, they would have to sort that with their own insurance - it may just be a line confirming your age/gender/occupation/years driving without accident or claim etc - and then you should be ok. The kicker is, however, it probably won't be cheap, but it will depend entirely on the company and the "relationship" they have with your friend/family member.
Yes & no - the problem is I am sure I am covered from the insurance viewpoint, the contract is quite clear.

But this isn't quite the same as being legally covered from a UK viewpoint, or having the right paperwork to avoid a load of hassle in case I do get checked.

(e.g. consider health insurance - I can have worldwide health insurance that would pay for any treatment, but still not have that officially accepted by the Swiss authorities if they aren't an approved provider with the right paperwork)

Yes, the case here is driving my parents-in-law car and they don't want the trouble of putting me on the insurance for a few days.

But in any case I will call the insurance.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17.12.2015, 10:27
RufusB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: In my head. And UK. Ex-Basel.
Posts: 1,518
Groaned at 33 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 1,991 Times in 852 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Hi


I don't mean to be awkward, but I don't understand. If you are covered, you are covered and insurance companies "should" (I know, I know) talk to each other in the event of anything happening (touch wood etc). What exactly are you worried about. Feel free not to answer that by the way.


To be honest (and this is my opinion, my viewpoint, what I would do...) I wouldn't drive the car of a friend or family member - particularly the Outlaws - without them having the ok from their own insurance. It shouldn't be too much hassle - they make a phone call and pay an adjustment to their premium - which you then offer to pay anyway. Can't they say you're a temporary resident? It works for local GP treatment - you only have to be under their roof for 24 hours for that to kick in!


If it's a prohibitive amount, can't you just rent a car locally for a few days, job done?


Quick edit to say aren't Zurich also active in the UK as insurers? Surely they have a department elf who can help?

I hope you can get it all sorted to your mutual satisfaction.

Last edited by RufusB; 17.12.2015 at 10:30. Reason: remembered something else
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17.12.2015, 10:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,040
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,774 Times in 1,950 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Privathaftpflicht (personal liability insurance) doesn't cover driving in CH, why would it cover driving abroad?

I would want that confirmed in writing (paper) from my insurance before assuming any coverage.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 17.12.2015, 10:59
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Quote:
View Post
Hi


I don't mean to be awkward, but I don't understand. If you are covered, you are covered and insurance companies "should" (I know, I know) talk to each other in the event of anything happening (touch wood etc). What exactly are you worried about. Feel free not to answer that by the way.


To be honest (and this is my opinion, my viewpoint, what I would do...) I wouldn't drive the car of a friend or family member - particularly the Outlaws - without them having the ok from their own insurance. It shouldn't be too much hassle - they make a phone call and pay an adjustment to their premium - which you then offer to pay anyway. Can't they say you're a temporary resident? It works for local GP treatment - you only have to be under their roof for 24 hours for that to kick in!


If it's a prohibitive amount, can't you just rent a car locally for a few days, job done?


I hope you can get it all sorted to your mutual satisfaction.
I'm not specifically worried about anything, but UK law has a requirement to have acceptable insurance. Also the responsibility for this falls additionally on the owner of the vehicle.

In my experience the authorities aren't very good at dealing with non-standard cases - so if I got stopped and asked for identification and insurance details (not uncommon at this time of year with all the drink-driving campaigns) it could be a pain, and if that pain also fell on my MIL I'm in trouble
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 17.12.2015, 11:07
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Quote:
View Post
Privathaftpflicht (personal liability insurance) doesn't cover driving in CH, why would it cover driving abroad?

I would want that confirmed in writing (paper) from my insurance before assuming any coverage.
They are in my policy for occassional use of third party vehicles, and were in the OPs so it seems fairly common.

From the Zurich GCI:

Quote:
9.
Users of Vehicles

• Motor vehicles owned by a third party which are used on an occasional basis.

Claims against the insured person as driver or passenger in a motor vehicle owned by a third party which is used on an occasional basis shall be insured only if the claims are not or do not need to be insured by the mandatory liability insurance for the vehicle concerned. The insurance shall also cover the additional premium arising from the actual downgrading of the applicable premium discount on the liability insurance policy taken out for the vehicle concerned (noclaims bonus). This additional premium shall be taken into consideration until such time as the premium tariff in force
at the time of the event is reinstated.

If the claim paid by the liability insurer is less than the no-claims bonus lost, only this lesser amount shall be paid. Any contractual deductible that the liability insurer imposes on its policyholder shall not be insured.

For loss or damage occurring abroad, the maximum indemnity shall be limited to CHF 2 million per event.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 17.12.2015, 11:09
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 5,059
Groaned at 40 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 7,129 Times in 3,239 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

From the Swiss point of view: Any car with regular numberplates has liability inurance regardless who is driving. Your personal liabilty insurance with a clause for occasional use of 3rd party vehicles, would cover premium hikes or demages to the driven car not covered by a kasko insurance. The risk is more or less the average value of a car plus the premium hike - in total a few ten thousand francs.

From an British point of view: A car has allways a number plate, even when off the road and uninsured. Additionaly, as far as I understand, car liability insurance covers named drivers only. The risk in this situation is up to the possible demages which could incure in a potential accident - a few million £.
I assume the UK,(English) road insurance law stipulates a minimum coverage sum. In Switzerland this is 5 Millions Francs. https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi.../index.html#a3

I do not think the clause for occasional use of 3rd party vehicles will cover the later one. Ask your insurance and explain them the situation.

Edit: Thank you newtoswitz, for quoting clause with coverage sum.
__________________
Dunkel war’s, der Mond schien helle, schneebedeckt die grüne Flur, als ein Wagen blitzesschnelle, langsam um die Ecke fuhr.
Drinnen saßen stehend Leute, schweigend ins Gespräch vertieft, als ein totgeschoss’ner Hase auf der Sandbank Schlittschuh lief.

Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 17.12.2015 at 11:17. Reason: Added minimim coverage by Swiss law and a Thank.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 17.12.2015, 11:16
RufusB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: In my head. And UK. Ex-Basel.
Posts: 1,518
Groaned at 33 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 1,991 Times in 852 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Ok. To legally drive in the UK you need insurance - whether that is via your own policy, being a named driver on someone else's OR having the owner's permission to drive and thereby being insured 3rd party. It is certainly not worth the hassle of being caught without valid UK insurance - nor would your inlaws appreciate the sudden hike in their premiums, I should wager. If in doubt, don't drive. Get lifts. Take a taxi. Rent a car....




Happy holidays!
Rufus
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 17.12.2015, 11:26
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

OK - UK law... Road Traffic Act 1988

I'm OK for coverage - the limit is GBP 1'000'000

Quote:
145.4.(b)

to provide insurance of more than [F31£1,000,000] in respect of all such liabilities as may be incurred in respect of damage to property caused by, or arising out of, any one accident involving the vehicle, or
But as per my health insurance example, the insurer has to be "approved":

Quote:
95.(2)

“Authorised insurer” means an insurer who is a member of the Motor Insurers Bureau (a company limited by guarantee and incorporated under the Companies Act 1929 on 14th June 1946).
I'm pretty sure Zurich Switzerland wouldn't count

But will call them anyway if I get a chance, just in case.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 17.12.2015, 11:27
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Private Liability Insurance and Driving 3rd Party Cars

Quote:
View Post
Ok. To legally drive in the UK you need insurance - whether that is via your own policy, being a named driver on someone else's OR having the owner's permission to drive and thereby being insured 3rd party. It is certainly not worth the hassle of being caught without valid UK insurance - nor would your inlaws appreciate the sudden hike in their premiums, I should wager. If in doubt, don't drive. Get lifts. Take a taxi. Rent a car....




Happy holidays!
Rufus
Yes, that's my conclusion - the idea was to have an easy option if required, which this isn't really going to be by the look of things. Also it would be good to know in general for EF folks.

Ho hum.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
car, crash daddy's car, private liability, will result in death




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What does 3rd party liability cover for renters? muze7 Insurance 14 15.03.2015 17:42
3rd party Liability insurance for learner drivers shaf Transportation/driving 0 15.04.2010 12:00
Can bathroom defects be claimed from private liability insurance? jacek Daily life 7 23.11.2009 13:28
House insurance : personal effects & private liability potom Housing in general 6 16.12.2008 12:59
Private Liability Insurance Jazz Insurance 20 10.09.2007 17:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0