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  #41  
Old 01.06.2015, 15:38
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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My Swiss license has my GB license number printed on the back
OIC. Haven't got mine with me today otherwise I'd have checked.

So I wonder if that means that mine has somehow slipped through the net, or if they just made a special case for you Anyone else like to try?
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  #42  
Old 01.06.2015, 15:44
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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OIC. Haven't got mine with me today otherwise I'd have checked.

So I wonder if that means that mine has somehow slipped through the net, or if they just made a special case for you Anyone else like to try?
I feel like the Swiss side might have copied it wrong since it's missing a letter at the very end. hey ho...need to change it back to a UK one soon anyway!
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  #43  
Old 01.06.2015, 16:26
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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My Swiss license has my GB license number printed on the back
Well yes, they all have- as your licence has been returned to the dvla, and the number will help retrieve it if you ever go back (as you have) and need to get it re-activated. But you need a valid address where you actually reside (as I am sure you have).
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  #44  
Old 01.06.2015, 16:34
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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Well yes, they all have- as your licence has been returned to the dvla, and the number will help retrieve it if you ever go back (as you have) and need to get it re-activated. But you need a valid address where you actually reside (as I am sure you have).
I'm not sure what the point of this post is?
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  #45  
Old 02.06.2015, 14:25
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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7 days to go ... then you will need a plastic card- and you can only get one with a valid UK address which is were you actually reside:

From 8 June 2015, the paper counterpart to the photocard driving licence will not be valid and will no longer be issued by DVLA. The counterpart was introduced to display driving licence details that could not be included on the photocard. These details include some vehicle categories you are entitled to drive and any endorsement/penalty points.
More nonsense from you, he does not have a photocard license or counterpart, he has a green paper license that is valid until he is aged 70, it does not need to be renewed every 10 years like the photocard version,
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  #46  
Old 02.06.2015, 14:27
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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OIC. Haven't got mine with me today otherwise I'd have checked.

So I wonder if that means that mine has somehow slipped through the net, or if they just made a special case for you Anyone else like to try?
Yours, like mine was issued many years before the reciprocal arrangements when anybody could just work in CH because they had a EU passport.
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  #47  
Old 02.06.2015, 16:06
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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More nonsense from you, he does not have a photocard license or counterpart, he has a green paper license that is valid until he is aged 70, it does not need to be renewed every 10 years like the photocard version,
Thanks for pointing out my error. So yes, I checked and the info about the paper counterpart is for those who had both the card and counterpart. Apologies.

However, could you help me please. All the info I read on the dvla site says that a licence is invalid (risking a £1000 fine if stopped by police) if the address has not been changed to your current address. For this you need to a/ give all addresses where you lived for past 3 years b/ be resident in the UK. Now I have an adress in the UK, the property belongs to me, so I could use that address. However it would not be valid as I am clearly NOT resident there, and netiher could I use my daughters' address, or antoher relative or friend. So how can a licence be valid till aged 70 if the address is incorrect, and if the rules make it impossible to change your address, as you are no longer resident there. Genuine question, and genuinely interested in the answer.

I suppose there is an exception for Gipsies- but not sure about other exceptions. Thanks.
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  #48  
Old 02.06.2015, 18:21
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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Thanks for pointing out my error. So yes, I checked and the info about the paper counterpart is for those who had both the card and counterpart. Apologies.

However, could you help me please. All the info I read on the dvla site says that a licence is invalid (risking a £1000 fine if stopped by police) if the address has not been changed to your current address. For this you need to a/ give all addresses where you lived for past 3 years b/ be resident in the UK. Now I have an adress in the UK, the property belongs to me, so I could use that address. However it would not be valid as I am clearly NOT resident there, and netiher could I use my daughters' address, or antoher relative or friend. So how can a licence be valid till aged 70 if the address is incorrect, and if the rules make it impossible to change your address, as you are no longer resident there. Genuine question, and genuinely interested in the answer.

I suppose there is an exception for Gipsies- but not sure about other exceptions. Thanks.
Assuming you have a Swiss license, it would be illegal for you to hold another license from an EU country. I assume you don't actually have a UK license so are just being clever with your question.

If you don't live in the UK you don't have to update your address on a UK license if you don't live in the UK. A photo card license will expire, so either needs to be exchanged at some point or a UK address given. It's quite possible to be resident in multiple countries & pay taxes in multiple countries.

I have a Swiss license & no longer live in CH, it's plastic with no address. I will eventually change it to an EU one, my original one was British. I have had no problem getting car insurance in Malta or France, in Malta the broker only wanted my passport no. I will probably be getting a car in the UK as well, I don't expect any issues.

There is no requirement to have an address in the UK, nothing to do with being Gipsies, it's not Switzerland!
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  #49  
Old 02.06.2015, 19:07
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

It is indeed a hypothetical question. In 1970, I took and passed 3 driver's licences, CH for cars and then motorbikes- and in 1971, as I was resident in the UK, I had to re-take my driving licence in the UK within 6 monts- as was the law at the time (previous to reciprocals, etc). But times as changed, I know. So when we came to live here in CH, we both had to exchange our licences for Swiss ones (for me, again..) as per the Law. We tried to make the case for keeping our UK ones too- but you are right, the law says this is not allowed- so we didn't. So we got Swiss (credit card type) Swiss licences, with the number of our UK licence on it- and if we ever go back to live in the UK, we will exchange back. So far, so good.

The DVLA site does state clearly that the address on your driver's licence, be it paper or card... has to be changed if you change address. The fine is up to £1000 if you are caught with a licence with an old address. And to change the address you have to a/ give addresses held for last 3 years and b/ be resident in the UK, eg the UK has to be where you are ordinarily resident and pay your taxes, etc.

So my question is simple and not 'clever' - how can you change the address on your licence to be in keeping with the law, if you are not ordinarily resident in the UK (we have an address there, our own property- but we are not ordinarily resident there, but here in Switzerland)? The question is really simple.
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  #50  
Old 02.06.2015, 19:55
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

As things do not seem to be as straightforward or simple, best go to the horse's mouth. Written to the DVLA for clarification- see what comes back. I'll accept their take on it.
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  #51  
Old 02.06.2015, 20:24
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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So my question is simple and not 'clever' - how can you change the address on your licence to be in keeping with the law, if you are not ordinarily resident in the UK (we have an address there, our own property- but we are not ordinarily resident there, but here in Switzerland)? The question is really simple.
Have a look at the Third Driving Directive https://www.gov.uk/government/public...directive-eu3d

My take on it is that if you move to another EU country (not EEA, not Switzerland) your UK license remains valid without change of address (even though anything sent to that address would be returned as undeliverable) until age 70. (OK, under very new EU law licenses are valid for a maximum of 10 (sometimes more or less) years.)

I have a bunch of licenses for most of which I took tests (50 years ago for a US state, a Canadian province; 5 years ago for GB) and one of which I got free (France). The French license is probably not good for much anymore and the address on it is the address of the embassy I was assigned to at the time.

So: a UK license isn't good for much if you are resident in Switzerland unless you exchange it. As it happens, my son has an old UK paper license but he lives in the USA. As he has (or will have within a couple of weeks) a Swiss passport I suppose he could "renew" it as a new-credit-card-format GB license since Swiss passports don't show dates of entry. But that would be ... wicked.

Virtually all EU/EEA/Swiss countries except GB & IRL require verification of registered "domicile" to satisfy the EU Directive requirement that you have lived there for six months. (That's is parallel to the USA rule against multiple state licenses because "everybody knows" that in the olden days drunk drivers would connive out-of-state licenses to keep driving after their main one was suspended.) When you take the GB practical test you are asked to sign in good faith that you have lived in GB for six months.

DVLA/DMV/etc. authorities talk to each other and exchange info on the latest scams. Doesn't everybody know that? Google took down, a few years ago, a Usenet forum on fake licenses. But I suppose they still exist, as does the "Bar Book" to describe what licenses are supposed to look like. Except that almost any OECD country license can be verified online or by phone.

My wife had a Swiss license from when I worked in Geneva. She could still have it except that at age 70 she needs a medical exam and it's been inconvenient to do the times we've been there. (We have accommodation and addresses in all the countries where we have licenses.) She tried to exchange it for a GB one but DVLA Swansea isn't so dumb: they checked with Bern and found that she got it without tests, so worthless for exchange.

A few weeks ago I hired a car in Geneva and offered them all my licenses (oneupmanship don't you see). I was asked (I could have lied of course) which one represents where I really live.

Hope that helps.
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  #52  
Old 02.06.2015, 21:24
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

It's exactly as Caryl says. If you move to another EU country your UK licence is valid as it is not a requirement to convert an EU licence if you're residing in another EU country. Once the licence expires then a new licence has to be obtained from the country you're residing in.( as several UK friends living in Belgium had to do)
The new credit card licences expire after 10 years so the very maximum time it would be valid for in an EU country would be 10 years. Some people however still have the very old paper licences so they can keep them until they reach the age of 70 if they are living in an EU country but the old style licences have to be changed to the new format at the latest by 2033.
We had several friends in this situation in Belgium

Switzerland is not in the EU and so us not party to this agreement so if you are resident here for more than a year and wish to drive here you have to convert your licence to a Swiss one.

Edit: link added

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...y/index_en.htm

This might help. If you click on the link you will see a table giving the maximum validity of an EU licence ( for each country) when residing in another EU country.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 02.06.2015 at 21:36.
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  #53  
Old 03.06.2015, 11:45
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So my question is simple and not 'clever' - how can you change the address on your licence to be in keeping with the law, if you are not ordinarily resident in the UK (we have an address there, our own property- but we are not ordinarily resident there, but here in Switzerland)? The question is really simple.
And so is the answer. You can't.

Not legally, in any case. If you still have the old UK one it's not actually legal to use it anyway, even if in theory it could still be thought of as 'valid'.

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The new credit card licences expire after 10 years so the very maximum time it would be valid for in an EU country would be 10 years.
Except, as already mentioned, if they're _living_ in another EU country the old paper licence is not valid, as it doesn't have their correct address. In practice, within the EU, this isn't often an issue (i.e it's ignored), but to state that the UK one is still valid is technically not correct.
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  #54  
Old 03.06.2015, 13:27
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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Except, as already mentioned, if they're _living_ in another EU country the old paper licence is not valid, as it doesn't have their correct address. In practice, within the EU, this isn't often an issue (i.e it's ignored), but to state that the UK one is still valid is technically not correct.
This law only applies to UK residents was what we were told when we enquired about it and this communication from the DVLA would indicate. ( although they do recommend changing licences with more than 10 year validity within 2 years it's not an obligation).
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  #55  
Old 03.06.2015, 13:42
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

Second part of letter as iPad only allows one attachment at a time and the last sentence us pretty clear.
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  #56  
Old 01.11.2015, 22:45
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

For my BMW m3 in the UK-
My Dad insures the car in his name with Admiral (UK); when I go home for a week I pay £55 for 7 days temporary car insurance; if it was a Ford fiesta then it would be £25 as it's in a lower insurance group

Admiral are fully aware I'm a Swiss resident with a Swiss driving license
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  #57  
Old 02.11.2015, 08:25
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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For my BMW m3 in the UK-
My Dad insures the car in his name with Admiral (UK); when I go home for a week I pay £55 for 7 days temporary car insurance; if it was a Ford fiesta then it would be £25 as it's in a lower insurance group

Admiral are fully aware I'm a Swiss resident with a Swiss driving license
Thats incredibly good value.
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  #58  
Old 06.11.2015, 17:32
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

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Assuming you have a Swiss license, it would be illegal for you to hold another license from an EU country. I assume you don't actually have a UK license so are just being clever with your question.
As far as I can tell after an hour of research (and I just put a query into the DVLA Swansea to inquire about unpublished accords with Switzerland; there is one from 1984 and another from 2014 or 2015 (the latter relating to HGV drivers)), the only "law" on the subject, within the EU, is Directive 2006/126/CE, Art. 7, Para. 5 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:32006L0126

That said, it is a matter of practice that as between those two countries (as with other EU/EEA/Swiss driving licences) the "foreign" one is retained upon exchange, and returned to the issuing country.

The Directive addresses problems of dual residence and those employed in one country whose habitual residence or centre of interests is in another; and implicitly migrant workers.

We know, from a Swiss brochure entitled "Leben und arbeiten Europäische Union" that the CH-EU Treaties do not address this subject.

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The DVLA site does state clearly that the address on your driver's licence, be it paper or card... has to be changed if you change address. The fine is up to £1000 if you are caught with a licence with an old address. And to change the address you have to a/ give addresses held for last 3 years and b/ be resident in the UK, eg the UK has to be where you are ordinarily resident and pay your taxes, etc.

So my question is simple and not 'clever' - how can you change the address on your licence to be in keeping with the law, if you are not ordinarily resident in the UK (we have an address there, our own property- but we are not ordinarily resident there, but here in Switzerland)? The question is really simple.
The EU Directive linked above addresses the address change matter and implicitly overrides contrary British (and separate N.I.) law: a British EU driving license -- at least if you took theory and practical tests in an EU country to get it -- remains valid in other EU countries through its validity (which under the new Directive will be limited to ten years but old paper ones could possibly be valid until 2033).

The UK, but not most other EU/EEA/Swiss countries has drivers self-certify their habitual residence and, for the over-70s, their state of health. (One can argue that utility bills, even when required, aren't definitive. I still get bills from NPower, whom I am suing because they've blocked (!) me from changing supplier for a UK apartment, in the name of "Occupant".)

There is (or will be) for the EU (as there has been since at least the 1970s in the USA) a central registry of revoked licences, mainly for DUI. Never mind the fake licences sold on the Internet (and what holder of such a licence isn't surprised when a speed cop calls up his driving record from a portable computer), getting a quick licence, perhaps from a corrupt country (Hello California: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...e30718371.html ) is the stuff of bar talk.
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  #59  
Old 10.11.2015, 12:50
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

The DVLA has kindly replied to a query on the subject of Swiss-UK driver licence exchange, as follows:

Q. Can the bilateral/multilateral reciprocal driving licence agreements be found somewhere online?

A. Switzerland was designated for exchange purposes in 1984, under Statutory Instrument 1984 No 672 The Driving Licences (Exchangeable Licences) Order 1984. This Order was amended by Statutory Instrument 2013 No 22 The driving Licences (Exchangeable Licences) (Amendment) Order 2013. Copies of both legislative documents can be seen on http://www.legislation.gov.uk. Legislation to permit the exchange of Swiss driving licences for large buses and lorries has not yet been put in place.

Q. Is the retention and return to issuing country of a Swiss (or presumably non-EU EEA) licence a matter of domestic regulation, unpublished administrative rule or mutual agreement?

A. It is requirement of European directives that third country driving licences, such as Switzerland, be surrendered to the competent authorities of the Member State making the exchange. This has been transposed in to Section 97 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended).

(I should note that the second reply does not answer the question since it refers to "the Member State making the exchange" and not the non-Member State that issued the licence.)
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Old 14.11.2015, 16:35
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Re: UK car insurance with Swiss drivers' licence

For the record, a clarification from DVLA. Switzerland has its own parallel, and apparently not identical, practice:

"Article 11 (6) of the 3rd Directive on Driving Licences requires the surrender of a third country licence to be surrendered to enable the issue of a driving licence within the scope of the directive. This has been transposed in to legislation and is contained within Section 97 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended).

"Licences defined within the Directives as ‘Third country’ are considered to be ‘exchangeable driving licence’ with domestic legislation.

"Article 11 (3) of the Directive requires licences exchanged within Member States are returned to the originating Member State giving a reason for doing so. Therefore to ensure consistency for the exchange of driving licences this has been adopted for third country exchanges as well as licences issued by another Member State."
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