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Old 23.01.2013, 14:30
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personal liability insurance

Hello everybody,

I have been living in switzerland for about 1.5 years but i never had personal liability insurance. now i want to leave switzerland and hand over my apartment next week. do you think if i start a liability insurance from tomorrow on for a year contract and leave the apartment next week and therefore ask for compensation to possible damages to the flat, they are going to accept it ? i mean do they really care when i leave ? i'm paying for a year contract anyway even that i wont be here for even a month. any comment is very much appreciated.
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Old 23.01.2013, 14:33
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Re: personal liability insurance

At best they will only pay for damages that occurred after the start of the contract.

Tom
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Old 23.01.2013, 14:39
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Re: personal liability insurance

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At best they will only pay for damages that occurred after the start of the contract.

Tom
Ok, but how are they going to say what has happened when ?
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Old 23.01.2013, 14:41
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Ok, but how are they going to say what has happened when ?
Well, if you declare damage that was made before the contract, you are guilty of insurance fraud!

Tom
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Old 23.01.2013, 14:44
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Re: personal liability insurance

They weren't born yesterday and have to deal with all sorts of fiddles.
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Old 23.01.2013, 14:51
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Well, if you declare damage that was made before the contract, you are guilty of insurance fraud!

Tom
Did you mean 'if you DON'T declare' Tom?

To the OP, I am (almost) sure that personal liability insurance will not cover a sub-rental to someone else.
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Old 23.01.2013, 15:06
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Did you mean 'if you DON'T declare' Tom?
I meant to say "claim" rather than "declare".

Tom
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Old 23.01.2013, 15:07
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Ok, but how are they going to say what has happened when ?
This is why you have to report things as fast as possible to have a possible claim assessed.

Once reported (if substantial), they will send a loss adjustor to varify the claim.

The longer you leave a report, the greater the chance your claim will be treated with suspicion.

Usually Loss adjustors are well trained and can easily identify the severity, and age of a claim.

If you intend to commit fraud, you will be in a world of hurt.


In your case,
You should have a subcontracted agreement for your lease. It is here that both you and the tennant will agree that everything is in order on the signed and agreed date.

Your new policy should be (preferred to be) in place before this date.

The tennant will have to report the damage to you and the insurance company as soon as possible in order for you to claim and the insurance company to organise an assessment.

"How to Claim" is usually a subsection on your written policy schedule.
This will identify the claim process for you.

If you don't have this, either look no the website with your policy number, or perhaps just call and request a "Product Disclosure Statement" (PDS) and you will find the info in that.


.... One more thing.
Public Liability (PL) is a pretty common form of insurance that gets included in many other classes of insurance.
It might be best to just take a closer look at the cover you already have and see if you have any PL cover now.
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Old 23.01.2013, 15:08
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Re: personal liability insurance

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They weren't born yesterday and have to deal with all sorts of fiddles.
True.

My personal liability and home insurance contract came with what I can best describe as a 90 day probation period from the side of the company, under which they can simply cancel the contract and refuse to pay claims.

Pretty sure its devised to deal with cases like the OPs
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Old 23.01.2013, 15:25
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Re: personal liability insurance

I may be being a bit thick here but where did the OP say he was subletting?

Regardless of this I don't think insurance companies are that naive and have probably seen the same thing hundreds of times before so as well as being fraudulent you plan is unlikely to work.
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Old 23.01.2013, 15:36
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Re: personal liability insurance

thanks for all the comments. i mentioned the general case of compensation for damages to the flat but more specifically i had a case like losing the apartment keys in which case i'm not sure if there's any loss adjuster that can say when did you lose the key. so say here's the situation :

Say I realize today that i dont have my keys to the flat but i'm not sure if it is definitely lost or stolen etc. because i havent looked for it everywhere yet so i can not declare the incident of losing the keys happened on the date of "today".
In the meantime, more specifically today, i sign for tis liability insurance which will start say from tomorrow on for a year. Now if i next wekk go to them and say i have lost my keys as i have checked everywhere and cant find them, Does anyone still think if this first of all by law counts as a fraud and secondly if there's anyway that they can reject my claim ?

So all i am worried in thsi hypothetical case is how suspicious the situation looks. you sign a contract for liability insurance . 5 days later you claim for loos/theft of the keys.if i were in their place it would have looked suspicious to me. but the real question is suspicion is one thing but being able to deny a claim with some rigorous reasoning another. which i cant think of any ...
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Old 23.01.2013, 15:43
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Say I realize today that i dont have my keys to the flat but i'm not sure if it is definitely lost or stolen etc. because i havent looked for it everywhere yet so i can not declare the incident of losing the keys happened on the date of "today".
In the meantime, more specifically today, i sign for tis liability insurance which will start say from tomorrow on for a year. Now if i next wekk go to them and say i have lost my keys as i have checked everywhere and cant find them, Does anyone still think if this first of all by law counts as a fraud and secondly if there's anyway that they can reject my claim ?
Yes. Definitely fraud, and they'd definitely suspect it quite strongly. Now if you took out the policy a few months before reporting the loss you might get away with it. But it's still fraud.

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So all i am worried in thsi hypothetical case is how suspicious the situation looks. you sign a contract for liability insurance . 5 days later you claim for loos/theft of the keys.if i were in their place it would have looked suspicious to me. but the real question is suspicion is one thing but being able to deny a claim with some rigorous reasoning another.
Don't be surprised if postings on a public web forum impying that you intend to commit fraud are later used against you in court.
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Old 23.01.2013, 15:56
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Re: personal liability insurance

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I may be being a bit thick here but where did the OP say he was subletting?

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i want to leave switzerland and hand over my apartment next week.
No, you're not thick Belgianmum, he didn't say but he does indicate that he is leaving Switzlerland, so I guess the appartment is in the same place (Kanton unknown, and the rules each may have)....... but this does bring up an entirely different problem that isn't related to insurance at all.

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I have been living in switzerland for about 1.5 years
OP,
Do you intend to come back to Switzerland?
What sort of permit do you hold?
I assume anything less than a C Permit and you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of pulling this stunt off at all.
The Swiss won't allow you to title of anything outside the country.
eg. If you are a B Permit holder and you actually owned the house, you could not rent the place out.... let alone sublease someone elses property.

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I'm paying for a year contract anyway even that i wont be here for even a month.
Conversely,the Swiss are more than happy to take your money so don't expect any favours.

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I don't think insurance companies are that naive and have probably seen the same thing hundreds of times before.
True,
and as Kosti said
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My personal liability and home insurance contract came with what I can best describe as a 90 day probation period from the side of the company, under which they can simply cancel the contract and refuse to pay claims.

Pretty sure its devised to deal with cases like the OPs
Well she did say 'cancel' the contract which is not entirely true. Yes they can cancel, but a probation period like this is in place more so to ensure that you are not intending to deceive them any time soon.
The agreement is usually a renewable annual agreement and so you are agreeing to any risk exposure over an unforeseeable 12 month period.... not just the short term where you will KNOW that you will need it.

eg. Try to get hail cover on your car just as a storm brews over head.
"Sure" they'll say, but the policy won't incept for at least 48hrs..... same thing.

Insurance prices risk on probability, not the inevitable.

Last edited by TidakApa; 23.01.2013 at 15:57. Reason: forgot something
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Old 23.01.2013, 15:57
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Yes. Definitely fraud, and they'd definitely suspect it quite strongly. Now if you took out the policy a few months before reporting the loss you might get away with it. But it's still fraud.


Don't be surprised if postings on a public web forum impying that you intend to commit fraud are later used against you in court.
"against in the court"... thats hilarious. I dont think any court in anywhere in the world is messed up at such level that if you publicly ask a question about an act, specifically about whether the act is a fraud or not, its gonna be used as an evidence "against me" let alone swiss courts... i mean what would be an "evidence" here anyway...proof of "what" ?! i'm not that paranoid ...
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Old 23.01.2013, 16:03
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Hello everybody,

I have been living in switzerland for about 1.5 years but i never had personal liability insurance. now i want to leave switzerland and hand over my apartment next week. do you think if i start a liability insurance from tomorrow on for a year contract and leave the apartment next week and therefore ask for compensation to possible damages to the flat, they are going to accept it ? i mean do they really care when i leave ? i'm paying for a year contract anyway even that i wont be here for even a month. any comment is very much appreciated.
So you start a contract this week, you vacate next week and make a claim for something that happened in between these dates.

Let me guess the insurance investigator is so thick that they won't work out this is a fraud.

Get real there is no way your claim will even be looked at and it will take until after you vacate before the policy is even initiated on the systems so you will be claiming as soon as the policy is on the system. Its mugs like this that investigators love
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Old 23.01.2013, 16:05
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Say I realize today that i dont have my keys to the flat but i'm not sure if it is definitely lost or stolen etc. because i havent looked for it everywhere yet so i can not declare the incident of losing the keys happened on the date of "today".
In the meantime, more specifically today, i sign for tis liability insurance which will start say from tomorrow on for a year. Now if i next wekk go to them and say i have lost my keys as i have checked everywhere and cant find them, Does anyone still think if this first of all by law counts as a fraud and secondly if there's anyway that they can reject my claim ?
Textbook Faud 101 Bro.

You'll go to Prison and meet a large ond lonely man in the shower who will give you a bumhole like a stormwater drain pipe.

I suggest that you forfeit the 500chf, replace the lock and keys yourself, and maintain your current rectal diameter.
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Old 23.01.2013, 16:11
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Re: personal liability insurance

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"against in the court"... thats hilarious. I dont think any court in anywhere in the world is messed up at such level that if you publicly ask a question about an act, specifically about whether the act is a fraud or not, its gonna be used as an evidence "against me" let alone swiss courts... i mean what would be an "evidence" here anyway...proof of "what" ?! i'm not that paranoid ...
How about Intent
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Old 23.01.2013, 16:13
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Its mugs like this that investigators love
....... and lonely large men in Prison showers
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Old 23.01.2013, 16:36
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Re: personal liability insurance

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Textbook Faud 101 Bro.

You'll go to Prison and meet a large ond lonely man in the shower who will give you a bumhole like a stormwater drain pipe.

I suggest that you forfeit the 500chf, replace the lock and keys yourself, and maintain your current rectal diameter.
hehe...seems like someone has some bitter memories here ;-)

but actually its not even 500chfs because i would have to pay something around 250-300 for that yearly contract ..so effectively its gonna get me that 200-250 chf back ...

I just wanted to know how these liability insurances work and what other peoples opinion are in that regard ...
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Old 23.01.2013, 16:45
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Re: personal liability insurance

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hehe...seems like someone has some bitter memories here ;-)
No mate,
I work in the Insurance industry and you asked questions.... and I provided answers.

Prison is a very realistic consequence of insurance fraud.

Albeit, for such a small sum of money it's not likely that you will go to prison, but to save a couple of hundred bucks, it's hardly worth the risk of a criminal record that will follow you around for the rest of your life.

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I just wanted to know how these liability insurances work and what other peoples opinion are in that regard ...
So.... let me get this straight.

You have asked what will happen and if it will work.

Not one person has suggested that what you are going to do is a good idea, but you are going to do it anyway?

OK, I'm out of this thread.
You're on your own buddy.
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