Hi,

I'm new here (both forum and Switzerland). As the process slowly turns I'm finding out more and more about certain Swiss legalities. I received a letter in the post, from the Krankenpflege-Grundversicherung. I am able to decipher enough to understand that I am being given 3 months (2 left) to subcribe to legally required medical insurance. They were kind enough to offer me a list of providers, so I figure it's probably worthwhile going by reference.

I have a fantastically colourful medical history, am currently in good health (I've heard that they are wary of those with technicolor medical history's). I am based in Zürich. I am planning on going snowboarding in mid January and don't fancy having to fly back to the UK to get my broken legs fixed.

If anyone has any pointers I'd be most appreciative.

Regards.

Hi Learmont,

Welcome to the joyful world of Swiss insurances. This will be your first of many insurances. I would not suggest taking an insurance company by way of recommendation, because what works well for one person may not work well for you. The cost of your basic insurance (the one which is a legal requirement) changes according to your age and your gender, as well as where you live (how on earth your choice of residence has anything to do with your own health baffles me). Oddly enough, whether you are a smoker or not has no effect on your insurance premium.

Your first stop should be www.comparis.ch - enter your basic details and you'll get the quotes for health insurance. Be aware that the prices change according to your "franchise" which is the amount that you have to pay yourself each year. For example, I have a CHF1500 franchise - meaning I can only start to claim after I pay the first CHF1500 myself per calendar year. You have to decide which level you want - if you get sick alot, and you can't afford to stump up CHF1500 yourself then pick a lower one, but your monthly premium will be higher.

There are different ways to increase or decrease your premium. For example, you could elect to have "private" cover which means you get your own room - this is expensive though! I have an option called "HMO" which reduces my premium - this means I can choose from a list of doctors that the insurance company provides - this has worked pretty well for me and makes a big difference.

Since you say you have a colourful medical history you may have problems getting additional insurance in addition to the minimum level (the nice part is that you MUST have this insurance, and the companies cannot deny it to you). I only have 3 additional health insurance products. I have accident cover (your accident insurance will be paid by your employer if you are a full-time employee), cover for the whole of switzerland (by default, if you get sick outside of your home canton, you are out of luck!), and an option that upgrades me to private cover for accidents only. The last one is handy because it is really cheap, and since I engage in all sorts of dangerous sports I figure that the chance that I land up in hospital after an accident is greater than for sickness!

Hope that helps, and once you've done some initial calculations drop back in and maybe we can help you further.

Mark

I have been with SANITAS health insurance for just over a year now. The monthly premium for me when I was living in Geneva with a CHF 2,500 franchise was about CHF 148 per month. Now I have moved to Zurich (begining of September) and I haven't changed SANITAS but my premium went down to CHF 122.80 per month which is all good.

However, I will be 25 soon, 20th October, and I heard that if you are 25 or over the premium goes higher. The thing is that I have received two monthly bills (as they send them out in advance) for October and November with the same amount as for September, namely CHF 122.80. I thought they would raise the premium for at least the November premium. Why is that? Will it remain CHF 122.80 (hopefully)?

Hello,

to expand a bit on the health insurance topic: health insurance is indeed (very) expensive in Switzerland and to our surprise going to a GP is not covered from the start!
I didn't quite realise the consequences of this "franchise"-concept I must admit - nobody explained this to me . It is indeed exactly like Mark writes - only in excess of the chosen franchise amount per year, the insurance company starts to reimburse for medical costs. As opposed to f.e. The Netherlands where, if you have to see a doctor - ALL expenses are covered by insurance.

To illustrate with an example : how a simple sore throat costed my girlfriend a wopping CHF 90,-. The GP charged CHF16,- for every 5 min of medical consult. She charged 20 min of medical consult and prescribed a pain killer (CHF 18).

We choose a high franchise.
The lower franchise you choose, the higher your premium for the basic insurance every month. To illustrate

- INDICATIVE VALUES/AMOUNTS FOR ZüRICH- :

Franchise > Premium for Basic Insurance
Very Low Franchise of 300 > 287 monthly premium
500 > 274
1'000 > 240
1'500 > 207
2'000 > 174
Very high Franchise of 2'500 > 168 monthly premium.

Below some more other things I learned over the year and wanted to share: -

• In addition to comparis.ch, at the Wintertur website there is a handy on-line premium calculator: http://www.winterthur-insurance.ch/
• Another tip - if you are considering joinig a gym: there are health insurance companies that contribute a certain amount to a membership of a gym to encourage this. For example, Winterthur reimburses CHF200 to a year membership, only IF you have opted for the additional "Natura" insurance.
• And yes, it is clever to shop around for the cheapest basic insurance. Some colleagues I know compare every year and change to the cheapest insurer for the basic insurance.
• Health insurance companies are forbidden by law to give discount on the basic insurance. For the additional insurance, large employers often have framework agreements with insurers offering some discount, eg 10-15% range. Once again: this discount is only for the additional insurance on top of the basic insurance.
• Dental insurance is very expensive, and often the very high premiums do not outweigh what you are entitled to claim back (often only a fraction). Reason imo why a lot of Zürchers go to a dentist about 30 km North of Zürich, just across the border in Germany. No wonder there are quite a few dentist practices there!

I fully agree with Mark - find out what's best for you, and do some proper research/comparisons when it comes to insurance.
In case of doubt: ask, and keep on asking till you understand completely. So read carefully, thoroughly and then read it again.

Good luck all to you out there with finding the least painful medical insurance in Switzerland.

Your premium also differs depending on which canton you live in. For example, I used the website that Vince provided. For where I live now in Basel, the rate is 304/month . The same data, but a post code of Dietikon (where I first lived when moving to Switzerland) is 179/month (both with a 1500 annual deductible/franchise).

Just wanted to add something else - if you go for the BARE MINIMUM required by law then this is a product (in german called KVG) which is exactly the same from all providers - it's the cover they have to supply by law. So at least you know what you'll be getting when you compare prices between providers.

Dentistry is not covered, but you'd be amazed what is covered in the minimum insurance - possibly the reason why it costs a fortune.

If you're generally in good health then you should go for a franchise of at least 1500.-

The only way someone in good health would have more than that in bills is if they're hospitalised. There are some companies who offer you a capital if you have to spend a night in hospital (or 24 hours depending on the company). You pay an extra 15-20 chufs per month and if you do have to go to hospital they give you whichever amount you chose (max. is currently 3000.-)

Beware of comparis (I've said it time and time and time again). they are sponsored by certain companies. You'll notice that the top companies which appear in bold, big font with flashing lights, music and free cakes are not actually the cheapest. (they are however the companies who pay the most to comparis :P ).

There are also various "alternative" systems available that are even cheaper. (HMO, doctors network, phone calls, gp etc.)

Also on comparis, they don't explain which company is which and why some may be better than others. what each companies philosophy is etc.

If you seriously want advice then get in touch. I'll even do all the paperwork for you (for free)

Jenny

The basic doesn't really cover that much.....

You're only covered for the hospitals in your home canton, they cover you up to a maximum of 500.- for ambulance transport (about 500 metres). For your glasses, they cover you 200.- (going down to 180.- for 2007) every 5 years (without taking into consideration your franchise).

Personally, I think it's a joke.

90% of what you pay is for the basic and 90% of what you'll actually use is the complementary.

Tax tip:

if your medical expenses - including dentists' bills, health fund (or medical insurance) franchise (where you paid for medical attention) and the 10% of bills you pay and any other medical expenses such as glasses and eye test - are more than 5% of your net taxable income then you can deduct these from you tax liability.

My wife and I try to get new glasses, dentists costs etc all in the same year. This applies in Canton Zurich - I can't vouch for other Cantons...

Excellent tip - but are your actual contributions to the insurance counted in the list of things which are deductable? If someone had an income of 100k per year and paid 200 per month in insurance then they would be half way to the 5% threshold just from their contributions.

I actually disagree with you there. I am one of the "great drains" on the health insurance companies. I require a lot of medical care these days. Anyway, in my experience, the KVG will cover more than you think. The only additional insurance I have is one which covers the yearly gynie check ups not covered in the KVG.

Complementary medicine is a seperate insurance. I do use some complementary medicine BUT I would never claim in on the health insurance in this country.

I have had my Chiropractic treatments paid for by my health insurance for years (best massage I've had ). Chiropractors recognised by the Swiss Chiropractors association will be paid for under your KVG.

I know many people find the Tarmed (the company responsible for setting the costs) shocking. Why I received a bill for about 6500.- for simply sitting around in the Uni Spital in Zurich for 2 afternoons and having simple blood tests done... However, you must realise the health insurance companies are not at fault.

Switzerlands healthcare system runs on steroids. No other country as the same MRI/CT or even X-Ray machines per head in the world. Most GP's have their own mini lab, ultra sound, x-ray the list goes on. This has its advantage but comes at a great cost.

As for health insurance increasing when you are over 25, unfortunately that is so... usually you save around 26% if you are under 25. But your insurance company will write to you and make you an offer. But do your homework

I think I have to point something out here. Are you saying that comparis is not a useful tool for comparing the rates of health insurance companies? Sure, some companies can pay for bold print and flashing lights, but this doesn't make the companies who don't pay any less visible if you can see past that. Same idea in the yellow pages - people pay for bold type, bigger squares around their entry, etc. It doesn't make the yellow pages less of a useful resource. Or how about google - they have sponsored links alongside their normal search results - the non-sponsored links are not doctored in any way.

Since I consider the compulsory medical insurance to be nothing more than a tax for which I receive no (or little) benefit I have only one criteria - price (since I never claim anyway, the level of service from a company is not important to me). Comparis does this job perfectly - I bring up the list and I sort it on price. The number of flashing lights and amount of bold text makes no difference to me at all.

Are you saying people should somehow not trust the results given by Comparis. I presume most people are able to see past the highlighting given to some companies and look at the information underneath. I'm sure people select based on more than flashing lights. Or are you saying that the underlying information itself has been doctored or manipulated? If this were the case it would be serious indeed and would call the entire purpose of comparis into question.

Though the tax form does ask for all insurance premiums, the health fund/insurance premiums I don't think are deductable. The part you pay (if you pay it) - the 'francise' and 10% of medical treatment, plus all other non-insured items such as dental treatment and contact lenses/glasses and eye tests - and I guess complimentary medicine not covered by insurance.

The trick is to get as much as possible in one year...

I've joined this forum today and, finding myself in a very similar position to gooner, the OP, I must say this has been a very useful read, so thanks to all.

Just last week one of the Swiss guys in the office was letting off steam about how much in health insurance he had paid over the years. CHF 120k over the last ten years

Most of his anger seem to be directed at asylum seekers allegedly abusing the system and pushing up the rates for all (he mentioned that doctors were being threatened that their families would be killed if they didn't cooperate - not sure how widespread that is!)

I wouldn't put too much weight on what he says. Switzerland has the highest medical costs in the world (after the US). The system allows you to claim an awful lot, and you can book an appointement directly with a specialist.

To say that asylum seekers are pushing up the rates is outrageous. Once people are insured by the system, they have the right to claim on it. Why would an asylum seeker require more treatment than anyone else? Why would they need to threaten the doctor's families? This sounds like complete and utter BS to me - as him to show you some articles in the press which report this - I've never heard of it.

Scroll up to where Lynn talks about her night in hospital (with no actual treatment) costing 6,000 francs. Doctors prescribing unnecessary drugs and then selling them directly to the patients to supplement their income. Unnecessary surgical procedures. An aging population. Inefficent hospital management. High salaries for staff (compared to neighbouring countries). The list goes on and on.

Yes there are reasons for our high insurance premiums, but to hang them on asylum seekers is at outrage. Your colleague should hang his head in shame!

Same happened to me.
I was living in Kloten, then Embrach, in which I was paying like 148/month; and now I moved to Zurich I have to pay for 184/month with a franchise 2500. It's expensive!!!

I've informed by my insurance agent (which is actually an insurance agent of my company who pick a couple of best fit insurance policy for you to choose from) that CSS (the insurance company Im using right now) has a new product out, so I could pay at the same price of the same product with less franchise at 1500. But I could only change it after end of the year.

Not sure any of you know it, if you want to change your insurance policy, no matter you want to pay more/less, you can only change it in the begining of the year (probably mean end of your contract), and you cannot change like in the middle of the year cause you think you needs changed.

This is new to me, cause in Hong Kong, basically you could change whenever you want at a reasonable time.

So better think twice before you sign your first contract.

Careful here Mavis - that isn't correct. For an optional insurance policy (over and above the minimum cover required by law) the contracts usually run to the end of the year, with a three month notice period. This means that you'll have to cancel by end of September (guess what everyone, you just missed it).

The basic (minimum) cover works differently - if you have the 300 (or 200 or 400, can't remember) franchise (excess) you have the ability to cancel at other times as well.

Rates are changed yearly and for ANY insurance policy if the rate goes up you have a special right to terminate it. Rates are usually given in October and November and they will write to you if the rates go up (they almost always do). This means you'll get the chance to change if you find that one company's product is much more expensive than anothers.

I shop around once all the rates are known for the following year and change my minimum insurance to the cheapest company. This means each year I have a different insurance company. The rates can vary by as much as 200% for the same product with different companies. I used to be with CSS when I first got here (my employer signed me up), and I found that I was paying twice as much as I could have with another company.

Oh seems like CSS has a good relationship with all the companies in Zurich eh?

okay.. then guess I should start shopping around before signing up a new contract of which company I should go for insteading paying double amount of money that I could have saved.

Hey Mark,

So what's your tip for next year?

~ Nanda.

I don't think the new rates are set yet. Some companies take a while to publish them. I usually check on comparis.ch and shop for the basic (minimum) insurance purely on price. Rates change according to where you live (of course this makes a big difference doesn't it?), your age and your gender. Thankfully your nationality doesn't affect your health insurance (yet). So I can't give you a tip - the best company for me may not be the best one for you - just check for yourself when all the rates are published.

Note: you can have additional insurances with different companies. If you want extra options then shop for these separately (or use an insurance consultant). I'm referring ONLY to the basic minimum insurance product which is the same product with all companies - therefore VERY easy to compare on price alone.