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  #21  
Old 02.11.2014, 14:24
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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I understand. But they should take into account my no-claim history, right?

And why is the third party insurance more expensive to me while in Poland everything is 3x cheaper, including car mechanic work time and repairs?
Of course they take into account your history - and everything else - as they should.

Why is third party insurance more expensive ? Because as Tom says everything including you is more expensive here than there - or did you just come here for the fresh alpine air ?
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Old 02.11.2014, 14:43
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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Umm, because we aren't in Poland?

Tom
Nor Ireland or the UK for that matter so it's totally pointless to make comparisons.
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Old 02.11.2014, 15:27
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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Umm, because we aren't in Poland?

Tom
Following the above logic, TP should be cheaper for those nationals who drive to their countries often and where the labour and legal costs are cheap as chips. It isn't the case so where is the catch? I have the feeling that not all of the readers in this topic understand its point...

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Of course they take into account your history - and everything else - as they should.

Why is third party insurance more expensive ? Because as Tom says everything including you is more expensive here than there - or did you just come here for the fresh alpine air ?
Is it more expensive HERE to have Third Party Insurance for Poles than for Swiss? What the hell? TP is NOT about my car, it is about THEIR cars and in this case THEIR will be the cars in POLAND where everything is cheap!
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  #24  
Old 02.11.2014, 16:06
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

I would just get over it.
AFAIK, the only way to get around it is to
- have a partner with a nationality that is cheaper to ensure
- and have the insurance written under that partners name

Acquiring Swiss citizenship probably won't help, because the "Eastern Europe"-flag on your file will never vanish - and the insurances probably exchange data about this stuff amongst each-other. And if your name sounds Polish, that's usually enough anyway...

I talked to an insurance agent once (not specifically about my car insurance, but the subject came up) and he said that he tries to avoid dealing with certain nationalities entirely, i.e. he just tells them to go elsewhere.
So, the prices are also a way to have certain kinds of customers not sign up in the first place (because they represent - in the eyes of the insurance - a "bad" risk).
It's not the mandatory health-insurance....
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Old 02.11.2014, 16:57
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

Unfortunately insurance isn't very fair for individuals, because risk is based on stats and groups of people. There's not much you can do about it! The reason experienced drivers, over 25's, women and evidently Swiss get cheaper premiums will be based on those groups making fewer claims than their counterparts. Of course there are some 17-year-old non-Swiss boys who are careful drivers, just as there are some 35-year-old Swiss women who are not. But car insurance will not make individual assessments other than which groups and categories one falls into (other than accident and licence penalty history)
No-claims will always be taken into account, but it doesn't always offset some of the other factors. Try putting zero and you will see how much difference it makes. IIRC the discount is approximately 15-25% for one year, 25-35% for 2, 35-45% for 3, 45-55% for 4 and 55-65% for 5. I used to get old dudes telling me they had "twenty years" no-claims-discount and asking why they weren't getting any more discount after 5 years, like you can't have a 100% discount mate lol.
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  #26  
Old 02.11.2014, 18:33
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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I would just get over it.
AFAIK, the only way to get around it is to
- have a partner with a nationality that is cheaper to ensure
- and have the insurance written under that partners name

Acquiring Swiss citizenship probably won't help, because the "Eastern Europe"-flag on your file will never vanish - and the insurances probably exchange data about this stuff amongst each-other. And if your name sounds Polish, that's usually enough anyway...

I talked to an insurance agent once (not specifically about my car insurance, but the subject came up) and he said that he tries to avoid dealing with certain nationalities entirely, i.e. he just tells them to go elsewhere.
So, the prices are also a way to have certain kinds of customers not sign up in the first place (because they represent - in the eyes of the insurance - a "bad" risk).
It's not the mandatory health-insurance....
Ehhh yes...But that is plain discrimination...

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Unfortunately insurance isn't very fair for individuals, because risk is based on stats and groups of people. There's not much you can do about it! The reason experienced drivers, over 25's, women and evidently Swiss get cheaper premiums will be based on those groups making fewer claims than their counterparts. Of course there are some 17-year-old non-Swiss boys who are careful drivers, just as there are some 35-year-old Swiss women who are not. But car insurance will not make individual assessments other than which groups and categories one falls into (other than accident and licence penalty history)
No-claims will always be taken into account, but it doesn't always offset some of the other factors. Try putting zero and you will see how much difference it makes. IIRC the discount is approximately 15-25% for one year, 25-35% for 2, 35-45% for 3, 45-55% for 4 and 55-65% for 5. I used to get old dudes telling me they had "twenty years" no-claims-discount and asking why they weren't getting any more discount after 5 years, like you can't have a 100% discount mate lol.
I have 6 years so should I get maximum there is (60% would be nice but the agent hasn't acknowledged it yet)? I had 75% (max) in Axa Ireland.

And here is a question:

Does this discount apply to HC and FC insurance or only to the TP?

Thanks!
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  #27  
Old 02.11.2014, 19:25
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

My first year here, I got my insurance for free.

(US citizen, US registered vehicle)

Tom
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Old 02.11.2014, 19:57
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

There was a big newspaper article about this a few years ago, where it listed insurance prices by nationality.

It's based on statistics and risk. If they determine that they pay out a lot more to Polish drivers then they want to charge a lot extra. Blame your fellow countrymen.

Or move to EU, where it'd probably be illegal - the higher risk must be borne by the safer drivers.
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Old 02.11.2014, 20:13
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

I don't know what you're entering but I just made a relatively random (assuming a very standard car and age ~30) check on comparis. For the circumstances I entered it gave cheapest offers of CHF 1002 for Polish and CHF 903 for Swiss. A difference yes but far away from your 70%
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Old 02.11.2014, 22:32
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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I don't know what you're entering but I just made a relatively random (assuming a very standard car and age ~30) check on comparis. For the circumstances I entered it gave cheapest offers of CHF 1002 for Polish and CHF 903 for Swiss. A difference yes but far away from your 70%
See attachment. I call it almost 2x more expensive.
Attached Thumbnails
car-insurance-differ-premiums-swiss-non-swiss-persons-smile_ch.jpg   car-insurance-differ-premiums-swiss-non-swiss-persons-smile_pol.jpg  
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  #31  
Old 02.11.2014, 22:50
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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Ehhh yes...But that is plain discrimination...

True, and in the long run, it is actually running counter to the goal of the insurance in general: distribute the risk among all participants.
But insurances want to make a point about this and in Switzerland you usually can't make a point by just making something 1% or 5% more expensive.

I knew somebody who, while living in Germany, still had the car insured in Spain.
I think, when questioned by the police, she would just claim to be on vacation and not speak any German at all. Very few beat-cops spoke Spanish back then, apparently and even fewer wanted to dive into the paperwork involved by engaging an official translator (given that no alcohol, drugs, traffic offense or crime was at play).

Not sure if you could have a business in Poland and insure the car there.
Probably doesn't fly with the StVA, either ;-)
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Old 02.11.2014, 22:56
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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True, and in the long run, it is actually running counter to the goal of the insurance in general: distribute the risk among all participants.
But insurances want to make a point about this and in Switzerland you usually can't make a point by just making something 1% or 5% more expensive.

I knew somebody who, while living in Germany, still had the car insured in Spain.
I think, when questioned by the police, she would just claim to be on vacation and not speak any German at all. Very few beat-cops spoke Spanish back then, apparently and even fewer wanted to dive into the paperwork involved by engaging an official translator (given that no alcohol, drugs, traffic offense or crime was at play).

Not sure if you could have a business in Poland and insure the car there.
Probably doesn't fly with the StVA, either ;-)
Thank you for your insight Unfortunately, you know very well that I cannot bring a car with the foreign plates to CH if I haven't been an owner for at least 6 months...

st2lemans: will you go and harass someone else with you intentionally offensive groans? Thank you.
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  #33  
Old 03.11.2014, 14:58
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

I've got response from Allianz, Zurich and Axa. None of them wants to take into account our no claim bonus! Did anyone actually manage to transfer their bonuses to Switzerland or it is just another myth about this country?
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Old 03.11.2014, 15:12
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

Allianz took our no claims bonus into account and we pay the same premiums as a Swiss person would BUT we're not from Poland ( which apparently makes a difference).
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Old 03.11.2014, 15:26
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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I've got response from Allianz, Zurich and Axa. None of them wants to take into account our no claim bonus! Did anyone actually manage to transfer their bonuses to Switzerland or it is just another myth about this country?
Forget it you're an Auslander bend over and prepare for the worst.
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Old 03.11.2014, 15:27
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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Allianz took our no claims bonus into account and we pay the same premiums as a Swiss person would BUT we're not from Poland ( which apparently makes a difference).
How did you go about it? Did you show them a certificate? May I ask what nationality you are and how many years of no-claim bonus did you have?

Thanks for help!
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Old 03.11.2014, 15:31
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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Forget it you're an Auslander bend over and prepare for the worst.
Hahaha!

Quod erat demonstrandum from the beginning of this topic
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  #38  
Old 03.11.2014, 15:37
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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How did you go about it? Did you show them a certificate? May I ask what nationality you are and how many years of no-claim bonus did you have?

Thanks for help!
We are British nationality ( which you would think would be higher risk since we drive on the left) but I had a German licence and my husband had a Belgian one when we took out the insurance.
We had a meeting in person with the guy from Allianz and we gave him a copy of our no claims certificate from Belgium.
We had got several quotes and all were pretty similar but the Allianz guy had been recommended to us and they offered a discount for employees at the company OH works for.

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Old 03.11.2014, 18:14
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

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We are British nationality ( which you would think would be higher rusk since we drive on the left) but I had a German licence and my husband had a Belgian one when we took out the insurance.
We had a meeting in person with the guy from Allianz and we gave him a copy of our no claims certificate from Belgium.
We had got several quotes and all were pretty similar but the Allianz guy had been recommended to us and they offered a discount for employees at the company OH works for.
Maybe you got the discounts because of the company having good rapport with the insurer. I have asked the Allianz agent about no claim and he said that it is always taken into account by default (they ask if you had had any claims in the past 5 years). They do not, however, take it into account when calculating the premium. They are the cheapest and most accommodating insurance company so far.
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Old 03.11.2014, 19:08
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Re: Car insurance differ in premiums for Swiss and non-Swiss persons

Insurers claim that issues with people from eastern european countries are much more frequent and/or costly than with other nationalities, and thus they need higher premiums. In the case of cars these purported frauds particularly involve:

- accident (staged or real) where the swiss licensed driver is the guilty, and the other car is basically a wreck but claimed to have considerable value
- reporting a car stolen when it was actually sold, e.g. during holiday trip
- unjustly claiming "Schleudertrauma" (damaged backbone nerves or brain, typically due a car that hit yours from behind while you were standing still)

On the one hand this makes sense considering wealth on average is much lower in eastern Europe than here, as this increases the relative gains for the eastern Europeans. On the other hand increased premiums allow insurers both to make a profit and increase them, so they have a vested interested in raising them.

Interestingly enough there are no official statistics available even though there can be no doubt that insurers have all the necessary data in their hands. However, most insurers are trending in the same direction, which renders support to their argument.

I guess in the end it comes down to what one is willing to accept(believe) - people suffering from a malus may have more problems accepting the insurers' claims.

Btw:
comparis does not show the cheapest offer available. They only show the prices for companies that pay for the privilege, thus a company that refuses to pay the middlemen (comparis) will never show up in the results regardles of how cheap or expensive it is.
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