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Old 13.05.2015, 11:42
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Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

After a discussion with a friend, I've decided that not having personal legal insurance in Switzerland may be tempting fate a little.

I've looked at Comparis.ch, checked out a few of the insurance deals out there directly and needless to say what is covered, or not, is naturally convoluted and confusing.

The sort of things I may need at some stage, although - touch wood - hopefully never, in the future include:
  • Employment disputes
  • Potential disputes with flatmates, subletting tenants, etc
  • Family disputes - child access, custody, maintenance
  • Copyright / IP disputes
  • Some coverage outside Switzerland
Employment, copyright / IP and foreign coverage seem to be covered to some extent or other by most policies, however anything to do with family at best seems to get only free consultation and few appear to want to touch the whole subletting / flatmates area.

So what I was wondering is if the good people here at the English Forum have any recommendations in general, for legal insurance policies/firms, if there are any policies out there that might cover some or all of those two areas that seem to be poorly catered to and any general tips or advice when choosing a policy.

Many thanks in advance.
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Old 15.05.2015, 14:03
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

We are in the same boat here. We also decided it is about time to get the legal insurance.
I think we will go for Protekta or CAP but again, I don't have personal experiences with any of them yet.
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Old 15.05.2015, 14:17
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

Couple of Points:
  • Rental disputes should be included in most / all cases. Check that again.
  • Check first whether you will get some discounts anywhere. Who is your "regular" insurer? Zurich, Axa etc? Most of them have also a companies who does Rechtsschutz. They might give you reductions if you will get an additional insurance with them.
  • If you are driving / own a car also think about Verkehrsrechtsschutz. If you need both moth companies offer a bundle that may turn out cheaper.
  • Are you a member of TCS? Then you will already have a Verkehrsrechtsschutz. Check with them what's included and if they also offer Privatrechtsschutz
  • Are you a member of Mieterverband or Hauseigentümerverband? Again you will already be covered for several things. Check with them.
  • Got an international travel insurance? You will be covered for several things already. Check.
  • Check Coop and Migros. They both also have a Rechtsschutz. Migros used to Generalis, Coop used to be Cap but check if that's still the case
  • Do you read German? If you do think about Beobachter or Kassensturz. Both have a Rechtsberatung for people who have a subcription to the magazines. Beobachter also offers an additional Rechtsschutz to the one provided to all subscribers.
  • check smile.ch and other Direktversicherungen. They usually belong to bigger insurance companies and are mainly run trough the Internet. Check comparis, they will give you an overview.
  • One last thing. Usually all people living in the same apparment are insured. Make sure that's the case.
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Old 15.05.2015, 15:58
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

I have both the TCS Assista Privat and Verkehrs Rechtschutz and have had these for many years. Fortunately, I have never needed to use them and I am even now considering cancelling these at some stage. The main cover I required was employee/tenant cover and neither of these are now relevant to me.
What I can say is this, which is relevant to the OP.
Privat Rechtschutz
(ger) https://www.tcs.ch/de/versicherungen...chtsschutz.php
(ger) https://www.tcs.ch/de/assets/versich...schutz-tcs.pdf
Has very limited cover for 'family' disputes. It covers tenants in disputes with their landlord (but not vice versa). It does cover employees in dispute with their employer. It specifically excludes computer software / web hosting provider related disputes.
There also a large number of other exceptions like disputes involving investments, activities as an employer or in the running of a business etc. or risks which are covered by other policies like disputes arising from driving a motor vehicle or disputes arising from ownership of property. Some 'international' cover exists like cover as patient, but cover against insurance related disputes is limited to Switzerland.
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Old 15.05.2015, 17:43
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

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I have both the TCS Assista Privat and Verkehrs Rechtschutz and have had these for many years. Fortunately, I have never needed to use them and I am even now considering cancelling these at some stage. The main cover I required was employee/tenant cover and neither of these are now relevant to me.
What I can say is this, which is relevant to the OP.
Privat Rechtschutz
(ger) https://www.tcs.ch/de/versicherungen...chtsschutz.php
(ger) https://www.tcs.ch/de/assets/versich...schutz-tcs.pdf
Has very limited cover for 'family' disputes. It covers tenants in disputes with their landlord (but not vice versa). It does cover employees in dispute with their employer. It specifically excludes computer software / web hosting provider related disputes.
There also a large number of other exceptions like disputes involving investments, activities as an employer or in the running of a business etc. or risks which are covered by other policies like disputes arising from driving a motor vehicle or disputes arising from ownership of property. Some 'international' cover exists like cover as patient, but cover against insurance related disputes is limited to Switzerland.
interesting thread as it brings up the point what you would 'need' in Switzerland. I have no cover for legal cost but am now thinking of it reading through the post.

In general are you free to use any legal advisor or would it be the one the insurer will give to you?
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Old 16.05.2015, 14:47
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

we just simple requested the legal insurance as extension / part of our health insurance. Monthly amount was increased by CHF 9,00 per month. also the process was very easy almost zero paper work.
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Old 16.05.2015, 15:52
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

If you have insurance cover for third party accidental damages, and you usually keep to the laws of this country, why would you need legal insurance?

A couple of points: most legal defense here is very expensive, and so the premiums are expensive. But when you do have a dispute with someone, the judge often awards 50% to both parties, and so neither is completely satisfied. A lawyer will not change this situation.

If you have committed an offense, maybe seriously speeding, the rules are definite, and the fine is a forgone conclusion, a lawyer will not help you here either.

I have prosecuted a Swiss man in a court in Bern. I received exactly what I asked for, no lawyer would have made my situation any better.

Save your money for the very rare occasions you will need a lawyer.

The one time you might need a lawyer to help you with a complicated divorce, you will find the insurance does not cover this!
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Old 17.05.2015, 18:32
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

Thanks all for your replies. Just to add from my own research that most policies are quite simelar, but they do vary on what they cover to a degree - for example some cover disputes with flatmates or copyright issues some don't. Some have clauses that specifically exclude cases involving a flatmate.

On rental related deputes, there's also the Mieterverband, which will cover legal costs on those as well as provide insurance whenever you move apartment for about 100 chf p.a..

Another thing is that family law (divorce, parental disputes, etc) is covered nowhere. No one will touch it. Best you can do is get X hours of free consultancy per year.

I got insured in the end because while I have nothing going on at present, there's a few things I could see potentially occurring in the future (e.g. someone not paying me back a loan in 6+ months), so while it's more than likely it'll never escalate, if it does, at least it'll be a few financial and administrative headaches I can divest myself of, and honestly, these things are pretty cheap at ~200 chf p.a., so it's worth the expense if only for the piece of mind.

A final note though. I asked for a recommendation from a Swiss friend and his response is he is insured but has never used it, so he couldn't. For a recommendation, he said, ask someone with experiences of making a claim.

When all's said and done with insurance companies, I suspect this is what it comes down to much of the time.
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Old 17.05.2015, 20:54
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

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If you have insurance cover for third party accidental damages, and you usually keep to the laws of this country, why would you need legal insurance?
Because I once had an accident in Italy, clearly the other person's fault (he went to overtake a stopped line of cars and was in my lane, we hit head on, albeit at very reduced speed), my verbale was translated by an Italian lawyer friend, and it came back as MY fault.

Had I had legal insurance at the time, I would have contested to get back damages, but as I didn't (costs would have been more than it was worth), I had to accept it.

Tom
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Old 30.05.2015, 20:00
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

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... not having personal legal insurance in Switzerland may be tempting fate a little.
I would just like to quote the above, because it is so true. I have just had my license plate stolen and my car vandalized today, as retaliation for parking (unknowingly) on a private parking place! If I had access to legal support, I would feel much more secure. So, even for relatively small problems, legal insurance is very important.
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Old 21.06.2015, 18:02
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

We got AXA for the legal insurance. They are very competitive now. You can go on their website and check prices.
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Old 22.06.2015, 00:31
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

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If you have insurance cover for third party accidental damages, and you usually keep to the laws of this country, why would you need legal insurance?


.
Another example: any big investment (building work in house, new car, etc etc) that goes wrong through no fault of your own, and the other party isn't playing by the law. Then, legal insurance will be worth its weight in gold, and is designed for those who keep to the laws of the country, not for those who flout them
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Old 03.08.2015, 14:30
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

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ask someone with experiences of making a claim.

When all's said and done with insurance companies, I suspect this is what it comes down to much of the time.
couldn't agree more !

And ask the friendly sales man all the questions regarding this before you decide. Tempting as it is to get insurance on the internet, I have learned (the hard way ) that in Switzerland (where I do not master well enough insurance parlance - mind you I don't do that in any country) it pays to have it all explained in plain English (or a language that makes sense to you).
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Old 03.08.2015, 14:31
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

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I have just had my license plate stolen and my car vandalized today, as retaliation for parking (unknowingly) on a private parking place!
Surely then you have a clear culprit - I would watch out what I claim as the insurance may want them to pay rather then them...
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Old 16.08.2015, 13:34
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

Coop and TCS were the leading legal insurances in Switzerland for years, today only Coop is left while TCS no longer offers the same coverage and goodwill as in the past.

'New in town' is https://www.dextra.ch/: The coverage is excellent and it's not that expensive.

Recent comparison of legal insurances by SRF: http://www.srf.ch/konsum/tests/kasse...empfehlenswert

Unfortunately, most legal insurances no longer fully pay for a lawyer or even try to deal with cases themselves (in spite of the obvious conflict of interest) as long as a case does not go to court. In addition, most legal insurances have their recommended lawyers, i.e., less expensive lawyers who mostly work for legal insurances, so there's a conflict of interest too. You can (and probably should) of course still ask for your own lawyer but you have to pay for part of his fee yourself.
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Old 16.08.2015, 13:52
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

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Coop and TCS were the leading legal insurances in Switzerland for years, today only Coop is left while TCS no longer offers the same coverage and goodwill as in the past.
Funny, if TCS no longer offers the same coverage I wonder who I am paying my premiums to....

We have Building, private and traffic legal insurance with the TCS.
We had a case where we needed to use the private legal insurance last year as we refused to pay the invoice of a contractor that had done seriously substandard work. The TCS people gave us good support and also arranged an impartial arbitrator (fees covered by the insurance) to settle the dispute. We ended up winning and paying a substantially reduced bill (25% of the original amount).
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Old 16.08.2015, 14:12
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

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Funny, if TCS no longer offers the same coverage I wonder who I am paying my premiums to....
TCS changed the coverage back in 2011, check out http://rechtsschutz-blog.ch/produkte...krebst-zurueck for a summary (in German). TCS went from an excellent to an average legal insurance. Your mileage may vary, of course, there isn't the perfect legal insurance for everyone and TCS is still better than many of its competitors.
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Old 08.12.2015, 02:29
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Re: Recommendations for Legal Insurance / Rechtsschutz

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Coop and TCS were the leading legal insurances in Switzerland for years, today only Coop is left while TCS no longer offers the same coverage and goodwill as in the past.

'New in town' is https://www.dextra.ch/: The coverage is excellent and it's not that expensive.

Recent comparison of legal insurances by SRF: http://www.srf.ch/konsum/tests/kasse...empfehlenswert

Unfortunately, most legal insurances no longer fully pay for a lawyer or even try to deal with cases themselves (in spite of the obvious conflict of interest) as long as a case does not go to court. In addition, most legal insurances have their recommended lawyers, i.e., less expensive lawyers who mostly work for legal insurances, so there's a conflict of interest too. You can (and probably should) of course still ask for your own lawyer but you have to pay for part of his fee yourself.
I completely agree with your post.

I had Protekta and it was a NIGHTMARE to work with them, they didn't let me appoint an external lawyer and the internal lady handling the case was working 20% and never available, I had to close the case and re-open it a few days later to get another person handling my case. This man was willing to let me appoint an external lawyer, but the one I choose was not to the satisfaction of Protekta, nor the second one either, so I took the lawyer that Protekta assigned and he literally said to me "for what you pay this is what you get" when I asked if he had read the documentation of the case and he said "no". Of course I complained and they cancel my policy!!

Now I have Dextra and is good.
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