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  #21  
Old 29.06.2015, 23:17
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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When we traded in our car for a new one, the car dealership "forgot" to tell our insurance company in a timely manner to cancel the old car and we ended up paying to insure 2 cars for 3 months. I didn't get any sort of statement in the mail, nothing to sign, no contract correction - I only found out because I called about something and they asked me if I still had two cars.

In the end the insurance company said they wouldn't refund our money because they were informed on such and such date and on that date the policy was changed - I had to recoup my costs from the car dealership.

So best of luck, but I don't think that a lawyer will get you anywhere, beyond losing more money.
Usually when you change cars, you take the same number plates as plates here belong to you as such and not the car.

When you had the new car registered in your name and issuance of grey card, this would have automatically cancelled out insurance on the other car.

If you changed insurance companies you would have need new grey card anyway so somewhere your story doesn't quite add up, there must have been another reason such as have 2 lots of plates.

Even interchangeable plates you would need to change grey cards to show the plates are interchangeable and here you pay the full premium due on the most expensive car and 10% of the other one.
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Old 29.06.2015, 23:40
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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Yes you did !

Check on any insurance site, keep all the same details 35%, Swiss, whatever you want but change the way the car is financed from own finacing to leasing
Give me a link to prove your claim.

Tom
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Old 29.06.2015, 23:41
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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Usually when you change cars, you take the same number plates as plates here belong to you as such and not the car.

When you had the new car registered in your name and issuance of grey card, this would have automatically cancelled out insurance on the other car.

If you changed insurance companies you would have need new grey card anyway so somewhere your story doesn't quite add up, there must have been another reason such as have 2 lots of plates.

Even interchangeable plates you would need to change grey cards to show the plates are interchangeable and here you pay the full premium due on the most expensive car and 10% of the other one.
We didn't have two sets of plates, same set used on both cars - we even changed cantons and it didn't get flagged. As advised on location at the strassenverkersamt (however you spell it) we had to call the insurance company and let them know we were moving cantons and they still didn't tell us on the phone. It was only after I called for an unrelated purpose that I became aware what was happening. The car dealership admitted complete fault. Maybe something doesn't line up, but that's my story.
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Old 29.06.2015, 23:43
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

www.comparis.ch

Fill in your details however you want and then check first with the "leasing" option as means of finance then try with own finance as the option. ALL other details remain the same.

I just done a quick one for me, Swiss, full bonus on a Merc E-class, 3 litre petrol, 2014 model,

Leasing : Chf 1'357.50
My finance : Chf 1'104.85

I don't know which companies this is with, but the spread is similar over all the indications given.
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Old 29.06.2015, 23:54
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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We didn't have two sets of plates, same set used on both cars - we even changed cantons and it didn't get flagged. As advised on location at the strassenverkersamt (however you spell it) we had to call the insurance company and let them know we were moving cantons and they still didn't tell us on the phone. It was only after I called for an unrelated purpose that I became aware what was happening. The car dealership admitted complete fault. Maybe something doesn't line up, but that's my story.
So you were charged a minor surcharge to have 2 cars on 1 plate, it cost me 50 for the insurance & 50 for the license when I had 2 cash for 15 years.
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Old 30.06.2015, 00:53
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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So you were charged a minor surcharge to have 2 cars on 1 plate, it cost me 50 for the insurance & 50 for the license when I had 2 cash for 15 years.

It was closer to 300 CHF and we got it back from the car dealership when we had the car serviced, they just deducted it from the bill.

All I'm trying to tell the OP is that we were in a similar situation and the insurance company wouldn't budge because everything from their side was correct. It was on our/car dealership side that was at fault, we were just lucky that we could recoup the costs from them because it was their mistake.
  #27  
Old 30.06.2015, 01:44
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

Have you ever spoken to the insurer? Insurer should know that it is not a leased car anymore as a consequence of change of ownership.
I believe you have good reasons to argue that you have in fact overpaid.

I would proceed as follows:
a) speak to them (no insults or similar, just say what you expect).
b) if they decline your request: Make same request in writing (registered mail). Refer to the declined offer.
c) If they decline: Ask them whether it was right to assume that they were informed that the car was not leased anymore. Ask the to set out the legal basis for their argument.

Cheers.
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Old 30.06.2015, 07:10
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

Oh, absolutely, you're in a strong position. Likewise, if there were any months when you didn't use the car (e.g. you were traveling or taking public transport) you have a basis for claiming back the lease from the dealership; after all, you weren't using - and who knows, maybe even couldn't use - the product in that time period.

I'd go back to them and claim first, since we're talking about more money than your insurance! Let us know how you get on.
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  #29  
Old 30.06.2015, 09:22
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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@Papa Goose I came here to get advice on where to find a specialist, not to be abused.
You came here for sympathy and reassurance. You didn't get the answer you were hoping for, now you start attacking the messenger(s).
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Old 30.06.2015, 09:27
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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Oh, absolutely, you're in a strong position. Likewise, if there were any months when you didn't use the car (e.g. you were traveling or taking public transport) you have a basis for claiming back the lease from the dealership; after all, you weren't using - and who knows, maybe even couldn't use - the product in that time period.

I'd go back to them and claim first, since we're talking about more money than your insurance! Let us know how you get on.
I'd recommend suing the dealer, the lease company and the insurance company - and demand at least the cost of a new car from each of them for "emotional damages"
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  #31  
Old 30.06.2015, 10:15
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

I'm glad there are helpful people in here. I appreciate it. Particularly

@freakin' distinguished (thank you for detailed suggestions),
@Corbets,
@JanerMacP,
@ASwissInTheUS,
as well as @Markarina.

Some, on the other hand, seem more interested in appearing as "smart arses" to this community than anything else. That's the beauty of this forum, but believe me, it is annoying when you are looking for advice supporting your claim.

@JagWaugh (and others): it is my failure, but at the same time the company collected more money for no good reason (without providing any additional service, or taking on any additional risk) and I would expect them to pay that back. I argue their systems are faulty for allowing to collect fees due to leasing without any alert popping up after, say, 3, 4, 5, 6years. Here it's been ten (3 with good reason, and 7 without, and it would have gone on). I've seen in my line of business clients be refunded fees going back years, that is just good business practice. Plus, it's not like insurance companies don't have money.
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  #32  
Old 30.06.2015, 10:27
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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I'm glad there are helpful people in here. I appreciate it. Particularly

@freakin' distinguished (thank you for detailed suggestions),
@Corbets,
@JanerMacP,
@ASwissInTheUS,
as well as @Markarina.

Some, on the other hand, seem more interested in appearing as "smart arses" to this community than anything else. That's the beauty of this forum, but believe me, it is annoying when you are looking for advice supporting your claim.

@JagWaugh (and others): it is my failure, but at the same time the company collected more money for no good reason (without providing any additional service, or taking on any additional risk) and I would expect them to pay that back. I argue their systems are faulty for allowing to collect fees due to leasing without any alert popping up after, say, 3, 4, 5, 6years. Here it's been ten (3 with good reason, and 7 without, and it would have gone on). I've seen in my line of business clients be refunded fees going back years, that is just good business practice. Plus, it's not like insurance companies don't have money.

So if the advice doesn't support your claim, you get abusive ?

As far as the insurance was concerned, the car was on a lease, therefore casco, therefore they did nothing wrong. The onus is on you to change you status, not for them to come running after each and every one of us asking questions.

Sorry you don't like it, but the fault is yours and yours alone.
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Old 30.06.2015, 10:27
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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I argue their systems are faulty for allowing to collect fees due to leasing without any alert popping up after, say, 3, 4, 5, 6years. Here it's been ten (3 with good reason, and 7 without, and it would have gone on). I've seen in my line of business clients be refunded fees going back years, that is just good business practice. Plus, it's not like insurance companies don't have money.
And they'll argue:
1) You could (and should) have notified them any time within the last 7 years
2) They didn't no whether you refinanced the remainder of the lease with a new lease

The situation is not an example of them poorly managing your premium but of you poorly managing your finances. The fact you are 7 years into "over-paying" (although technically you haven't - you have been paying the right amount for the agreed service even if that agreed service is above and beyond your requirement) tells us more than enough.

Is this your first EF username?
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  #34  
Old 30.06.2015, 11:12
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

@ Today Only. No, I don't get abusive. I just pointed out when I felt someone got abusive with me. You have made your opinion known. But you have also seen opinions different from yours. I came here asking for opinion on how to get legal advice that will support my claim. What is your interest in trying to prove me wrong? You are not helpful to me, a new member of this community, only to insurance companies.


@ dodgyken - yes it is.
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Old 30.06.2015, 11:28
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

Nice to see that I am not on the naughty list.

Lets change that. I am totally with dogdyken. If your contract and the associated conditions does not mention anything about the leasing it is just a case of a free market. Shopping around for car insurance every so often is very advisable even if you stick with the same company. Specially, if the possibility of future saving is quite high. Not much of an issue if you pay just CHF 120 for a scooter but at CHF 2500 or more per year savings can be quite substantial.
Other factors that may influence your car insurance premiums: Permit, nationality, family, driving history etc.

Also think about what coverage you actually need. Sometimes third party liability insurance only is just the right thing. And if you get casco insurance compare the depreciation table of the contract. That's where the big money is hidden.
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Old 30.06.2015, 12:19
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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@ aSwissInTheUS. I called the insurance company asking for a meeting saying I'm paying too much for insurance (2,600 per year). When I came to the meeting, the agent had a proposal without the leasing which was about 500 cheaper, from what ai remember. He said I assume you finished the leasing... (Yeah, good guess)
One more thing to consider: If you really want to hire a lawyer for more than just some legal advice, the fees will most likely eat up or exceed the potential refund.
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  #37  
Old 30.06.2015, 12:29
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

@Mark75 - Thank you. Yes, that would not be a good idea, I really wanted to spend up to a few 100 CHF on how to proceed. Right now I am inclined to go the route suggested by f d - kindly, but firmly ask the insurance company, as a first step.
  #38  
Old 30.06.2015, 12:42
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

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@Mark75 - Thank you. Yes, that would not be a good idea, I really wanted to spend up to a few 100 CHF on how to proceed. Right now I am inclined to go the route suggested by f d - kindly, but firmly ask the insurance company, as a first step.
I am not a lawyer, but like others who posted here my advice is free. Any change in your circumstances must be communicated by you to your insurance company. Failure to do so cannot and will not be deemed good reason to refund premiums paid.

Just like if you forgot to cancel (as indeed someone says happened to them) a policy when you sold your car, moved house or whatever. You carry on paying the premium, the company has no reason to stop taking it and no liability to refund it.

It really is that simple, and you have absolutely no possibility of reversing that logic.

EDIT: I had to laugh when I read your profile:
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  #39  
Old 30.06.2015, 12:47
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

ZurichLake, just one question, if you had had an accident in the last 7 years would you have expected the insurance company to have paid out ?

You had the coverage, an accident could have happened any time and you would have expected payment.

Just on this point alone you will not win as you cannot prove that you would not have had an accident over last 7 years.

Like it or not, you're beating your head on a very hard wall.

Take it on the nose, accept you screwed up and move on. Learn from the lesson, read contracts, take note and make reminders for important financial matters.
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Old 30.06.2015, 13:43
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Re: Overpaid car insurance - need legal advice

@ Today Only - I don't understand. The insurance company would have paid me the same in case of an accident even if my premium were 400-500 francs lower (as it should have been). I don't think the payout would be higher simply because I am "leasing the car".
But note, I am not contesting the fact that premiums for leasing are or should be higher. It is how it is.
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