Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Insurance
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10.07.2015, 17:17
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 380
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 295 Times in 196 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Damaged a parking car

Long story short: our car scratched the paint on another car while leaving the usual parking spot ("parkschaden"). Just by looking it doesn't look that bad, I guess the paint didn't even get damaged, but I can certainly not wipe it off with a wet cloth. I left my number of her windscreen.

We the car is our neighbor in the garage, I left my number and expect the worse. The car is a Q5, fairly new, so probably insured with full casco.

As I never caused anyone damage yet, can you explain me what outcomes could happen?

Option A)
The Audi driver can claim everything on my car insurance, it will be paid by my insurance in full(?), and I get a 20% raise on my premium for 4 years. This way I have no costs other than my premium rise, right? Any other drawbacks?
Option B)
We arrange for the private fix of the paint with a spot repair shop, pay cash, don't say a word to the insurance and walk away - should she agree to it.
Option C)
Can this be done on her fullcasco and we just pay the deductible (not sure how much the deductible is)?

Who decides what choice we have to take?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10.07.2015, 17:27
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 5,062
Groaned at 40 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 7,138 Times in 3,241 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

C) is insurance fraud as the culprit is known.

A) and B) are more or less the same. Usually you will get a breakdown from your insurance and the option to pay it back without any premium hike. Check with your insurance, they normally calculate what is cheaper.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 10.07.2015, 22:42
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,761
Groaned at 484 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 4,018 Times in 1,997 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

Option C..... So she takes the increased premiouns on her casco for 4 years, excellent choice !
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 11.07.2015, 00:43
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 380
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 295 Times in 196 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
Option C..... So she takes the increased premiouns on her casco for 4 years, excellent choice !
Errr... I might have not thought it thru properly
Even though, it would be a master trick
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11.07.2015, 10:47
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Basel-Stadt
Posts: 504
Groaned at 33 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 427 Times in 234 Posts
snapsterone has earned the respect of manysnapsterone has earned the respect of manysnapsterone has earned the respect of many
Re: Damaged a parking car

" our car scratched the paint on another car"

Don`t let it out on it`s own again.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank snapsterone for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 11.07.2015, 12:23
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,074
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,269 Times in 557 Posts
neddy has an excellent reputationneddy has an excellent reputationneddy has an excellent reputationneddy has an excellent reputation
Re: Damaged a parking car

It seems to be fairly standard in Geneva to smack your door into someone elses or even bump their bumper whilst parking. I don't know how many times I have had to get in & out of the sliding doors at the back 'cos someone has parked so close I can't get the front door open.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11.07.2015, 14:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,654
Groaned at 152 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 9,578 Times in 3,220 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

if I were the Audi owner, only A would be an option. C is fraud and B is dodgy (it would give me the impression that your car is not insured)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11.07.2015, 15:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Geneva
Posts: 2,351
Groaned at 31 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 2,551 Times in 1,248 Posts
Anjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
if I were the Audi owner, only A would be an option. C is fraud and B is dodgy (it would give me the impression that your car is not insured)
Why would B be dodgy? People sort things out like that all the time; friendly, and without getting the insurance companies involved.

Several years ago our neighbours drew out of the parking space next to ours in the underground garage and ripped the front bumper half-off our Maestro!
We knew they didn't have much money, we were heading off the England a few days later and so it simply made sense to both parties to get a new bumper while we were there rather than go through the hassle of dealing with the insurance companies, ordering a new bumper from the UK, waiting for it to arrive and then arranging for it to be fitted after our return from holiday.
With the added bonus that we not only saved the neighbours several hundred francs.... we stayed on good terms with them!

The only downside that I can see is if the damaged car is new the owner might insist on it being repaired professionally to retain the new appearance of their car, which might be too expensive for the OP to fund out of his own pocket.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11.07.2015, 16:12
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 380
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 295 Times in 196 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
The only downside that I can see is if the damaged car is new the owner might insist on it being repaired professionally to retain the new appearance of their car, which might be too expensive for the OP to fund out of his own pocket.
No worries. As I only have basic liability insurance on the car (~600CHF/yr), the 20% extra for 4 years is not a whole lot more to pay. So either fix it with cash or just let the insurance pay it for me.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11.07.2015, 16:21
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Geneva
Posts: 2,351
Groaned at 31 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 2,551 Times in 1,248 Posts
Anjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
No worries. As I only have basic liability insurance on the car (~600CHF/yr), the 20% extra for 4 years is not a whole lot more to pay. So either fix it with cash or just let the insurance pay it for me.
That's assuming that with only limited liability the insurance will cover you for what's clearly a 'parking incident'!

Your best bet now would be to speak to your insurance agent and find out. Then do the maths.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Anjela for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 11.07.2015, 16:33
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 380
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 295 Times in 196 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
That's assuming that with only limited liability the insurance will cover you for what's clearly a 'parking incident'!

Your best bet now would be to speak to your insurance agent and find out. Then do the maths.
don't mix it! my own car I have to fully cover myself, but the purpose of the liability insurance is to cover the damages of others, should I have caused any.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11.07.2015, 18:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Geneva
Posts: 2,351
Groaned at 31 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 2,551 Times in 1,248 Posts
Anjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
don't mix it! my own car I have to fully cover myself, but the purpose of the liability insurance is to cover the damages of others, should I have caused any.
That's okay then, go with that if it'll work out cheaper than paying for the repairs yourself!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12.07.2015, 11:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,059
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,803 Times in 1,962 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
No worries. As I only have basic liability insurance on the car (~600CHF/yr), the 20% extra for 4 years is not a whole lot more to pay. So either fix it with cash or just let the insurance pay it for me.
Don't fool yourself, or let yourself be fooled, usually total cost by the premium increase is considerably higher than a simplicistic approach implies, where simply the premium increase over four years is added up. Whenever the insurance has a choice without actually lying, they will display the calculation in the way that benefits them most. They want to maximise their income stream, which requires for you to pay more than necessary.

In order to make my case, I need to make a few examples. To keep things simple (coughcough), I'll assume bonus increases by 10% each year, and maximum bonus is 60%. So without any accident you pay 100%, 90%, 80%, etc., and by year seven the bonus is maximized so you pay the minimum premium of 40%. Everybody's premium steps are quite likely to differ, thus readers will need to adjust the numbers to fit their actual situation. I'm merely using 10% in order to hopefully make it not overly complicated.

Also for simplicity's sake, all numbers and examples here ignore deductibles. You need to add that to the summed up premium increase as additional cost, or conversely, deduct it from repair cost before you compare with the summed up premium increase - the result should be roughly the same whether you use the former or the latter, it's mostly just a matter of preference.

Scenario 1)
Let's assume you're at maximum bonus now thus your premium is 40%. Due to the scratch your premium jumps to 80% (bonus drops from 60% to 20%). So your premium increases by 40% for 2016, or phrased differently, the premium next year will be equal to "minimum premium plus 40%".

In kind of a table, in this scenario your premium will be:
minimum + 40% for 2016
minimum + 30% for 2017
minimum + 20% for 2018
minimum + 10% for 2019
minimum + 00% for 2020

Summary scenario 1)
Since without the accident you would have paid 0% above minimum, the total cost by premium increase from having the insurace pay is 100% (=40+30+20+10) of a one-year premium.

Scenario 2a)
For a different scenario, let's assume you have 30% bonus for 2015. Thus without the scratch (or if you paid for the cost yourself) you'd pay
minimum + 20% for 2016
minimum + 10% for 2017
minimum + 00% for 2018

thus in this example you'd pay a total of 30% (=20%+10%) above minimum until reaching maximum bonus.

Scenario 2b)
Now, still assuming 30% bonus this year, but now your scratch is assumed to be paid by the insurance. Since that has your premium increase by foru steps (or phrased conversely, your bonus decreases by four steps), your payments would be
minimum + 70% for 2016
minimum + 60% for 2017
minimum + 50% for 2018
minimum + 40% for 2019
minimum + 30% for 2020
minimum + 20% for 2021
minimum + 10% for 2022
minimum + 00% for 2023
thus in total you pay 280% (=70+60+...+10) above minimum premium.

Summary scenario 2)
Since without the scratch you'd have to pay a total of 30% until reaching minimum vs. 280% with the scratch paid by the insurance, your total cost by the premium increase is 250% (=280% minus the 30%).

Scenario 3a)
Now, to paint a pessimistic picture, let's further assume you had the insurance pay for the scratch, and additionally will cause a big accident next year that you'll also need paid by the insurance, so next year you get another 40% increase. Your payments in this scenario would be:

minimum + 70% for 2016 (bonus reduced by scratch)
minimum + 110 for 2017 (bonus reduced by big accident)
minimum + 100 for 2018
minimum + 90 for 2019
minimum + 80 for 2020
minimum + 70 for 2021
minimum + 60 for 2022
minimum + 50 for 2023
minimum + 40 for 2024
minimum + 30 for 2025
minimum + 20 for 2026
minimum + 10 for 2027
minimum + 0 for 2028

thus in total 730% above minimum premium.

Scenario 3b)
In order to compute the additional cost from having the insurance pay for the scratch, it is necessary to compute what would happen if you paid for the scratch yourself but still had the accident next year paid for by the insurance.

The difference between these two gives the additional cost you incur from having the insurance for the scratch. The numbers are as follows:

minimum + 20% for 2016 (bonus goes from 30% to 40% as you pay for the scratch yourself)
minimum + 60% for 2017 (bonus reduced by big accident in 2016)
minimum + 50% for 2018
minimum + 40% for 2019
minimum + 30% for 2020
minimum + 20% for 2021
minimum + 10% for 2022
minimum + 00% for 2023
thus 230% total premium.

Summary scenario 3)
So in this pessimistic scenario, the net penalty by having the insurance pay for the scratch is 730% - 230% = 500%

You say scenario 3) won't happen? Well, let's take a look at how likely it is to have some effecto on OP:

The typical driver will have his insurance pay in about 3 cases during his whole career as a driver, so one case in 15-20 years. Having the insurance pay for the scratch will affect your premium for 4.5 years in total (I'm including the 2nd half of 2015 because another accident this year would also affect the bonus). So there's about a 25% chance for the pessimistic scenario 3b to materialize, although having the 2nd accident in the more distant future will bring lower additional cost than incurring it sooner (you should know now how to calculate that - be my guest ).

With this in mind, I think it's probably profitable for OP to pay for the scratch herself if repair cost are above 80% of a one-year premium, perhaps even above 70%.

Don't overly trust the insurance, their goal is to make money, which needs to be financed by all of us collectively. Similarly, the sales representative only makes money if he actually sells - as in, sells to you.

So in closing, in many cases (subject to your current bonus, bonus steps, insurance premium and additional assumptions) repair costs need to be quite big to make it worth having the insurance pay.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12.07.2015, 11:50
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 3,993
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 7,240 Times in 2,918 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
No worries. As I only have basic liability insurance on the car (~600CHF/yr), the 20% extra for 4 years is not a whole lot more to pay. So either fix it with cash or just let the insurance pay it for me.

If it really is only paint damage, having the door resprayed at a good shop will be somewhere between 300 and 600 CHF. Ask her to take the car to a paint shop of her choosing, and get an estimate (before Wednesday: see below). If the cost to fix is lower than your deductible/premium cost would be, and she finds that acceptable (i.e. doesn't want a loaner car etc), then just pay it yourself.


Hint: Many collision shops here work on a fixed cycle. Usually Monday to Weds they dismantle, order parts, bash metal and fill/sand. Thursday they shoot primer, filler and colour, then blocksand. Friday/Sat is clearcoat paint, polish, fit trim and customer pickup. The cycle is about not having to constantly clean the paint booth/shop because a car that needs to be kept dust free is next to one that is being sanded.


If the shop says bring it on Thursday morning, do so. If they follow the cycle the car will anyway just sit there until the slot, but they will be happy to charge you for a loaner car if you insist.


You need to sit down and have an earnest discussion with your car. If you find you can't leave it on its own you may need to chain it to a wall when you aren't there to supervise it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12.07.2015, 12:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: north
Posts: 6,134
Groaned at 226 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 5,094 Times in 2,632 Posts
rob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

I would say that really really cheap. I had a bumper resprayed and it was 1000chf. I didn't care as was on someone else's insurance.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12.07.2015, 12:05
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 380
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 295 Times in 196 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
Don't fool yourself...
Thanks for the calculation. However, you made two incorrect assumptions:
- my premiums will rise "by 20% for 4 yrs", according to Baloise, I've asked over the phone. She also said that they will do a calculation and I can pick whichever I like, although it might not be worth giving it to insurance at all
- I'm only paying basic liability (<600/yr), which does not really get any lower. That would be only with half or full casco, as far as I understood it.

I'm gonna pay 20% for for years, adding to 80% of one year's premium (~500CHF) before it returns to what it is today (and what it was 3 yrs ago as well).
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12.07.2015, 12:07
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 380
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 295 Times in 196 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: Damaged a parking car

Quote:
View Post
You need to sit down and have an earnest discussion with your car. If you find you can't leave it on its own you may need to chain it to a wall when you aren't there to supervise it.
that'd be the missus, but I really shouldn't chain her to a wall, should I?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12.07.2015, 12:11
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 3,993
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 7,240 Times in 2,918 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

Bumpers usually need more work, most shops remove them as they are near impossible to mask in place, are more difficult to fill and sand smooth because they are soft, AND you need to check that there isn any damage to the fixings underneath. A door, OTOH, usually only needs the handle removed, clean and prep, mask in place, shoot.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12.07.2015, 12:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: north
Posts: 6,134
Groaned at 226 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 5,094 Times in 2,632 Posts
rob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damaged a parking car

Bumper is removed in 10 min by myself. No plastic damage just a small paint scuff. They were taking the piss.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12.07.2015, 20:01
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 380
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 295 Times in 196 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: Damaged a parking car

just met the owner of the Audi in our garage... her uncle has a car spray shop and they polished everything out - no marks remaining, case closed.

lucky
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank user137 for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Separate Car Parking and Motorcyle Parking for rent 8050 greenseries Property offered 4 19.05.2015 16:14
UK Law advise - delivery company damaged car bigblue2 General off-topic 35 14.08.2014 13:27
Damaged car - insurance question Anke_ Insurance 4 30.07.2014 11:04
Damaged car and Swiss law? PawJac Transportation/driving 73 03.12.2013 15:38
Car damaged faugrad Complaints corner 7 29.09.2011 13:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0