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Old 18.07.2015, 12:59
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How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

Here are my concerns:
My husband and I are USA citizens.
We are moving to Geneva for work in September.
We will have private insurance and we have a B permit.


Will the French government need us to have a special visa to live there
and work in Geneva?


Will the G permit cover that?
What will our taxation be?
Sorry for all the questions.
Also we have two small dogs and a cat.
Is France as strict as CH about pets and registration and taxes on pets?


Thank you
Westwood
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Old 18.07.2015, 14:12
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

Cats do not have to be registered in Switzerland, nor is there a tax on them.

The G-Permit is given to persons already legally residing in a country bordering Switzerland (like France) and who have a job in Switzerland (cross border commuters).

If you choose to live in France you will not need a B-permit for Switzerland, if you already have one, it needs to be given back upon departure (when you move to France).

To legalize your residence situation in France, you need to deal with French immigration.

Information on pets in France can be found here for example:
http://paris.angloinfo.com/information/family/pets/
https://www.justlanded.com/english/F...Pets-in-France

Last edited by plumtree; 18.07.2015 at 14:25. Reason: adding
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Old 18.07.2015, 14:34
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

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Cats do not have to be registered in Switzerland, nor is there a tax on them.

The G-Permit is given to persons already legally residing in a country bordering Switzerland (like France) and who have a job in Switzerland (cross border commuters).

If you choose to live in France you will not need a B-permit for Switzerland, if you already have one, it needs to be given back upon departure (when you move to France).

To legalize your residence situation in France, you need to deal with French immigration.

Information on pets in France can be found here for example:
http://paris.angloinfo.com/information/family/pets/
https://www.justlanded.com/english/F...Pets-in-France
Hello
I guess I am asking if in addition to the CH visa in my US passport in order to live in France while working in Geneva I need additional
clearances from France because I am living in France.


We currently live in the UK with our Tier 4 Visas. We have just gotten
our Swiss stamps which will allow us to get a B permit to live in CH. We were told we must live in Geneva for 6 months before being able to apply for a G permit.


I am trying to see if how complicated all of it is.
Thanks Westwood
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Old 18.07.2015, 15:43
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

You have a B permit which requires you to live and work in Switzerland, not live in France. You would not be eligible for a G permit because you don't already live in a French border zone. These are for people who already live in a border zone and who work/want to work in Switzerland. So living in France is not an option as you would lose your Swiss permit and the job you are coming over for because without the permit you can't work in Switzerland. Nor would you qualify to live in France as you don't have a job there which is the only way to get a permit to live there long term. Whether you could eventually apply for a change to a G permit I don't know, but it's rare for non-EU nationals to be granted G permits by the Swiss authorities.

Whether you already have private insurance or not when living in Switzerland you're required by law to have Swiss health insurance cover. It could be that your private insurance would be acceptable here, but you'd have to check with Geneva's migration office. Note that very few private policies are considered the equivalent of Swiss health insurance so it's unlikely, though not impossible, that it would be accepted.
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Old 18.07.2015, 19:23
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

Hello
I had heard that we can apply for the G permit after 6 months of residency in Geneva. I was told this by my husbands legal department.


I hope what you have said is not true.


If we did get a G permit to reside in France and work in Geneva,
what tax do we need to pay to France?


How many levels of taxation are there in France?


Thank you again,
Westwood
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Old 18.07.2015, 19:28
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

Slight correction to what Medea and plumtree are saying about the G permit.

G permits are also granted to EU nationals who have been living and working in Switzerland but then decide to move out into one of the border countries whilst continuing to work in Switzerland.

Note that this is a fairly simple administrative process for citizens of EU member states as they technically have the right to reside anywhere within the EU, it's definitely not so easy for americans, canadians, or other non-EU nationals.

Tax, if you somehow do get permission (good luck with that), everyone who works in the Canton of Geneva is taxed in Geneva, except possibly UN and CERN employees. You'll then have to file annual tax forms with the French authorities as well. It's quite possible they'll send you a second bill.... it'll depend on your income and family situation.
As well as US tax forms as you say you're both american.
Then there's the health insurance hoop... the French insist that if you live in France you must pay into their Social Security system, which provides only very basic cover, so you'll need to take out extra insurance to cover the rest.

There are loads of threads about this already.... please try to use the search engine!

Last edited by Anjela; 18.07.2015 at 19:37. Reason: Tax, health insurance
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Old 18.07.2015, 21:00
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

Then I'm afraid your husband's legal department is wrong. As Angela said for EU nationals it's a simple matter. For non-EU's it's not. This from Geneva canton's website:

"Proof of the right to a long term residence in a neighbouring country and of at least 6 months residence in the border zone (G permit)"

"Procedure
The application is always made by the employer ... for a cross-border application, the proof of domicile in the border zone and the copy of the long term residence permit;"

https://www.ge.ch/moe/uk/procedures/...demande_et.asp

The long term residence permit they're referring to is the one issued by France which you will not be able to get as you will not be working, studying or retiring in France.

The whole point of the G permit is to allow people, including non-EU nationals, already living in a border zone to be able to work in Switzerland. Because of the way Switzerland - and France for that matter - gives priority to Swiss/EU nationals, non-EU permits require that you live as well as work in the country that gave you your permit. Unless you have been living in the border zone next to Geneva for a minimum of 6 months AND have a long term resident's permit from France you cannot live there, sorry. Rethink your plans because you will have to live in Geneva.
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Old 18.07.2015, 21:31
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

For some reason, i expect another thread like "can a family live on 300k per year".
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Old 18.07.2015, 21:36
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

Thank you Angela.
Westwood
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Old 18.07.2015, 22:15
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

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Thank you Angela.
Westwood
You really need to go back to your husband's legal department on Monday morning (Not clear if it's a new job, or internal transfer), and insist that they double-double-check what they've told you. All too often HR and even legal departments will just toss out a reassuring 'it'll all be fine' without being totally au fait with the facts.

Switzerland isn't in the EU (although it is a signatory to large parts of the Schengen Agreement), and the rules and regulations here are just 'different'. Not always easy to wrap your head around but that's how it is.
Bear in mind also that each canton is different; I believe that in the States laws can vary from state to state.... then you have Federal Law that trumps everything else? Well, Switzerland is like that. Again, although Canada is in many ways very similar in its culture to America, dig just a few inches below the surface and it's a completely different mind-set, that's Switzerland and her neighbours.

You're american(so non-EU), and in Switzerland that fact alone also puts you a fair way down the pecking order.
Permission to live in Geneva is already a big thing, one necessity really is to ensure that the company helps you find accommodation (which will almost certainly be an apartment and not a house unless your husband's job is very, very well paid), Geneva is full to bursting with very little movement in the housing market so just finding somewhere is going to be a big challenge.

Good luck!

Anjela
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Old 19.07.2015, 10:17
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

Hi Angela,


Thank you for all those very insightful comments.
I have already experienced the HR it will be fine etc and then suddenly its like no you will have to live here and its totally not what you had in mind.


Do you currently reside in CH?
I have heard that housing is no longer so so tight and that comparatively things are moving around more. We currently live in a five bedroom house 30 minutes outside of London and its not that expensive. Everyone said you will NEVER find such a thing and I did so. We also have animals which are coming with us. A cat and two small dogs.


This is why I thought living in France would be closer to our current life style. Anyway I am not a city person. I know all about the Swiss and the rules. We will need a house for sure. The question is where.


How about out by the airport and that side near the Jura. Supposedly no body likes that side because of rain, different weather patterns?


Thank you for all of this.
Westwood
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Old 19.07.2015, 10:38
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

Looking at one of the following websites there are houses available, though what the areas that they're in are like I don't know as I'm not in that part of Switzerland.

Anyway have a look on these and see what's available and for how much.

www.immoscout24.ch
www.immostreet.ch
www.homegate.ch
www.home.ch

For private rentals, i.e. not through an agency, try

www.petitesannonces.ch

If you can get the HR department to help you might be able to find something before you arrive, but demand for property in all Switzerland's major cities is high and competition is fierce to get a place. If HR can back you up as it were then it might put you higher up the chain. Otherwise why would a landlord/agency rent to someone who's not even here yet when they have dozens of candidates already on their doorstep. Still, be prepared to possibly spend some months in temp accommodation while you find a place you like to rent. I think you'll be very lucky to get what you want straightaway.
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Old 19.07.2015, 11:12
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Re: How complicated is it to live in France and work in CH as a US citezen?

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Hi Angela,


Thank you for all those very insightful comments.
I have already experienced the HR it will be fine etc and then suddenly its like no you will have to live here and its totally not what you had in mind.


Do you currently reside in CH?
I have heard that housing is no longer so so tight and that comparatively things are moving around more. We currently live in a five bedroom house 30 minutes outside of London and its not that expensive. Everyone said you will NEVER find such a thing and I did so. We also have animals which are coming with us. A cat and two small dogs.


This is why I thought living in France would be closer to our current life style. Anyway I am not a city person. I know all about the Swiss and the rules. We will need a house for sure. The question is where.


How about out by the airport and that side near the Jura. Supposedly no body likes that side because of rain, different weather patterns?


Thank you for all of this.
Westwood
I live just across the border (2 kilometres) south of the Geneva in a tiny hamlet near Saint Julien , but my life is mostly based in Geneva. We moved into France to buy fourteen years ago not long after the living/working rules were finally relaxed for EU citizens, so even for us it's a relatively recent right.
My sons still live in Geneva though, and have recent experience of the housing market, which is less tight if you can afford 5k or more, almost impossible if you can't.
None of us have any personal experience of living north of the city, but have friends who've lived there quite happliy. But you need to pay attention to the flight paths from the airport, certain areas can be very pretty but spoilt by the almost constant noise.

A five-bed with garden can easily set you back chf 10,000+ a month!
Anyway, here's the current list of houses with 3 beds or more within 5 kilometeres of the city, cheapest is 3.4K, the most expensive 50k.

http://www.immoscout24.ch/en/search/...6,23,98,4&vm=1

You need to be aware that in Switzerland places are advertised as being so many rooms (pièce), so a three bed would be described as a 4-pièces.... three bedrooms plus a living-room. However, in Geneva the kitchen is also counted, so for a 3-bed you need to look for a 5-pièces or higher.

Another point; deposits are usually three months rent, and there's an expectation that rent plus charges (water, heating) is no more than 1/3rd of your monthly income.
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