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  #21  
Old 23.07.2015, 20:11
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Was just rather surprised at the various comments/discussion as I thought I was just asking a relatively straightforward question but understand our situation is a bit strange - am also heat-fuddled Mum of two little ones... Thanks for all the replies and comments - am sure the information will be useful to others as well and I will post back when I get a reply from LAMAL.
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  #22  
Old 23.07.2015, 20:30
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

SUVA deals with work-related insurance only. From a swiss perspective, neither you nor OH are working, you are merely earining income. Asking them certainly won't hurt though.

My guess is, you can't get accident insurance in CH as accident insurance outside of a job is dealt with by the health insurers, which you opted out of. The federal office on social insurances should know more or be able to steer you to some body who does, and of course that'll be a bit more reliable than us here. Contacting them with the info in your 13:35 post, perhaps enriched with basic personal info, should do for starters.
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  #23  
Old 23.07.2015, 20:43
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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SUVA deals with work-related insurance only. From a swiss perspective, neither you nor OH are working, you are merely earining income. Asking them certainly won't hurt though.

My guess is, you can't get accident insurance in CH as accident insurance outside of a job is dealt with by the health insurers, which you opted out of. The federal office on social insurances should know more or be able to steer you to some body who does, and of course that'll be a bit more reliable than us here. Contacting them with the info in your 13:35 post, perhaps enriched with basic personal info, should do for starters.
Yes, contacting SUVA and the BSV should help. Despite SUVA only covering the registered unemployed and the employed, they are the largest accident insurance company in CH and would (aside from the BSV) have the most useful info or links to info for the OP.
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  #24  
Old 24.07.2015, 10:31
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Would be interested in getting the official link on this. EHIC is only for emergencies not for casual/chronic illness. But if it is valid for illness, surely it would be valid for accidents too?

Not doubting you- just would like to see the official info. Tried to Google it- but all the info given is on Italians working in Switzerland- t'other way round seems so rare

Tom?
I think it has something to do with this? I remembered receiving a paper from the canton about the different options for health insurance or different nationalities when we moved here but it took me a while to find it. Not sure exactly how it works.



http://www.bag.admin.ch/themen/krank...x.html?lang=fr

The link I posted is in French but you can choose other languages as required.
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  #25  
Old 24.07.2015, 10:50
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Toutefois, la Suisse a conclu avec les pays limitrophes (Allemagne, Autriche, France, Italie) des accords particuliers permettant aux personnes qui y sont domiciliées de s'assurer dans leur pays de domicile (droit d'option)

Thanks for that BM- I think most of us know about this option, which is for people who live there, not t'other way round. Hence my question.

Quick from to of head translation:

However, Switzerland has concluded with border countries (Germany, Austria, France, Italy) special agreements allowing people WHO LIVE THERE to insure themselves in the country where they live (right of option).
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  #26  
Old 24.07.2015, 11:16
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Toutefois, la Suisse a conclu avec les pays limitrophes (Allemagne, Autriche, France, Italie) des accords particuliers permettant aux personnes qui y sont domiciliées de s'assurer dans leur pays de domicile (droit d'option)

Thanks for that BM- I think most of us know about this option, which is for people who live there, not t'other way round. Hence my question.

Quick from to of head translation:

However, Switzerland has concluded with border countries (Germany, Austria, France, Italy) special agreements allowing people WHO LIVE THERE to insure themselves in the country where they live (right of option).
Did you not read the bit about the insurance being in the place of employment? That's the part that concerns the OP I believe. There must be an option for this due to an agreement between Italy and Switzerland.

Bi-lateral agreements usually work both ways. In the same way that a person living in France but working in Switzerland can choose to have Swiss or French health insurance ( and the same for the other countries involved I guess) I suppose a person living in Switzerland but working in Italy also has the right to choose.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 24.07.2015 at 12:56.
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Old 24.07.2015, 11:20
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

An insurance according to KVG/LAMAL law normally covers accidents as well: https://www.admin.ch/opc/it/classifi...index.html#a1a

and it is only not part of the KVG/LAMAL insurance if an insurance according to the UVG/LAA/LAINF law takes over the cover.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/it/classifi.../index.html#a8

UVG/LAA/LAINF covers only people working IN Switzerland.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/it/classifi...index.html#a1a

So, it is no surprise that a Swiss health insurance can not offer accident insurance only as it is part of the whole deal.

Also, SUVA or other UVG/LAA/LAINF insurance companies can not provide coverage as OP and husband are not working in Switzerland.

But I am surprised that your Italian insurance was accepted as Swiss equivalent. For this your Italian insurance normally should cover accidents as well.
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  #28  
Old 24.07.2015, 11:40
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Did you not read the bit about the insurance being in the place of employment? That's the part that concerns the OP I believe. There must be an option for this due to an agreement between Italy and Switzerland.
Not necessarily. Swiss law of course only covers CH, Italy has its own rules. The various parts of the swiss social insurances complement each other. In short, it doesn't matter which "cash register" pays the bill, it will be covered by some official thingy anyway.

However, OP has opted out on her own free will, and with that any consequences are not the problem of Switzerland (well, that may change if bad stuff were to indeed happen, but I'm talking the general setup of having an insurance), including the possible lack of accident insurance.

==================================

Come to think of it, OP do you pay minimum contributions into 1st pillar? If not, you do want to change that day before yesterday, and also pay back for past years as long as you are allowed to.
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  #29  
Old 24.07.2015, 11:58
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Not very clear is it?

But it is an interesting question, and a rare case. We have many French who live here and work here, many who live in France and work in Switzerland- but absolutely none who live in Switzerland and work in France (and I live right on the border).

However, If I was the OP- I would also check other things, as said above, pension and social fund, and taxes. Would they not be likely to pay less tax in Switzerland, and the pension would certainly be a lot higher. For me though, the main question would be about unemployment- should her husband be unlucky to lose his job- who would pay un-employment- and what difference would that make, both in terms of compensation pay and duration. I certainly know many French who lost their frontaliers jobs and would kill to get Swiss unemployment payments rather than French.
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Old 24.07.2015, 12:23
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Not necessarily. Swiss law of course only covers CH, Italy has its own rules. The various parts of the swiss social insurances complement each other. In short, it doesn't matter which "cash register" pays the bill, it will be covered by some official thingy anyway.

However, OP has opted out on her own free will, and with that any consequences are not the problem of Switzerland (well, that may change if bad stuff were to indeed happen, but I'm talking the general setup of having an insurance),
As a Swiss resident the OP has to have health insurance so there must be some agreement with Italy and the insurance she has via her OH's employer deemed acceptable or she wouldn't have been able to cancel her Swiss health insurance.

What that agreement is and what is covered remains to be seen and only the KVG/LaMal can answer that question.
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  #31  
Old 24.07.2015, 15:01
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Not very clear is it?

But it is an interesting question, and a rare case. We have many French who live here and work here, many who live in France and work in Switzerland- but absolutely none who live in Switzerland and work in France (and I live right on the border).

However, If I was the OP- I would also check other things, as said above, pension and social fund, and taxes. Would they not be likely to pay less tax in Switzerland, and the pension would certainly be a lot higher. For me though, the main question would be about unemployment- should her husband be unlucky to lose his job- who would pay un-employment- and what difference would that make, both in terms of compensation pay and duration. I certainly know many French who lost their frontaliers jobs and would kill to get Swiss unemployment payments rather than French.
Interesting questions indeed. And a whole lot of potential pitfalls.
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  #32  
Old 27.07.2015, 16:53
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Just to update all - KVG/LAMAL have confirmed that I do have basic accident insurance as part of my LAMAL coverage.
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  #33  
Old 27.07.2015, 20:56
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Just to update all - KVG/LAMAL have confirmed that I do have basic accident insurance as part of my LAMAL coverage.
Is this the insurance company which initially denied you sole accident insurance coverage? Why did your health insurance company now decide to take you on? Is it because you're not employed and not collecting unemployment (equivalent to the situation a person who previously worked in CH and has stopped both working and collecting unemployment) would be in?

FYI, KVG is the law which basic health insurance is based on (Krankenversicherungsgesetz), not your health insurance company as such. There are many different health insurance companies, of which all provide basic cover (based on KVG law) and supplemental cover (based on the VVG, Versicherungsvertragsgesetz, insurance contract law).

As I've said elsewhere on this forum, KVG coverage (basic) is mandatory for all resident in CH. Insurance companies have to accept you for basic coverage without question. They also have to (as discussed in length in this thread) accept you for accident insurance coverage if you're neither employed nor registered as unemployed and resident in CH.
VVG coverage (supplemental) is voluntary and the health insurance companies can therefore choose who they accept for it. Note: If you ever get accepted for supplemental, do not get rid of it because getting it back might mean that you will be asked the questions you were asked when you took it out for the first time, and since your health situation might have deteriorated since then, you might be refused coverage.
In short, KVG is based on the CH social system (everyone pays for everyone) and VVG is based on the financial/medical risk the individual person poses to the insurance company. Therefore basic health insurance premiums are identical for groups of people, whereas premiums for supplemental health insurance are much more varied.

VVG (insurance contract law) and UVG (accident insurance law) are two different things btw.

Link to tons of info

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  #34  
Old 27.07.2015, 22:35
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Is this the insurance company which initially denied you sole accident insurance coverage? Why did your health insurance company now decide to take you on? Is it because you're not employed and not collecting unemployment (equivalent to the situation a person who previously worked in CH and has stopped both working and collecting unemployment) would be in?

FYI, KVG is the law which basic health insurance is based on (Krankenversicherungsgesetz), not your health insurance company as such. There are many different health insurance companies, of which all provide basic cover (based on KVG law) and supplemental cover (based on the VVG, Versicherungsvertragsgesetz, insurance contract law).

As I've said elsewhere on this forum, KVG coverage (basic) is mandatory for all resident in CH. Insurance companies have to accept you for basic coverage without question. They also have to (as discussed in length in this thread) accept you for accident insurance coverage if you're neither employed nor registered as unemployed and resident in CH.
VVG coverage (supplemental) is voluntary and the health insurance companies can therefore choose who they accept for it. Note: If you ever get accepted for supplemental, do not get rid of it because getting it back might mean that you will be asked the questions you were asked when you took it out for the first time, and since your health situation might have deteriorated since then, you might be refused coverage.
In short, KVG is based on the CH social system (everyone pays for everyone) and VVG is based on the financial/medical risk the individual person poses to the insurance company. Therefore basic health insurance premiums are identical for groups of people, whereas premiums for supplemental health insurance are much more varied.

VVG (insurance contract law) and UVG (accident insurance law) are two different things btw.

Link to tons of info

I think it is probably the same insurance as retired people from the UK ( who have no Swiss pension) are entitled tohave. You get it directly from the place in Soluthurn rather than via a health insurance provider.
They get basic insurance cover with a 300chf franchise and 10% co-pay up to the 700 chf maximum per year.
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  #35  
Old 31.07.2015, 21:03
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Yes, that's right. We're getting our insurance now from LAMAL/KVG at Solothurn.
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  #36  
Old 31.07.2015, 21:15
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Yes, that's right. We're getting our insurance now from LAMAL/KVG at Solothurn.
"smartass mode on"
KVG's not the name of the insurance company, but rather the law based on which the insurance company operates its basic health insurance.
"smartass mode off"
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Old 01.08.2015, 12:56
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Yes, that's right. We're getting our insurance now from LAMAL/KVG at Solothurn.
Did you relocate? Your profile still says Ticino, I thought you could only get KVG insurance in the Kanton of residence, though I could be wrong on that.
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  #38  
Old 01.08.2015, 13:43
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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"smartass mode on"
KVG's not the name of the insurance company, but rather the law based on which the insurance company operates its basic health insurance.
"smartass mode off"
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Did you relocate? Your profile still says Ticino, I thought you could only get KVG insurance in the Kanton of residence, though I could be wrong on that.
I think it's this.

http://www.kvg.org/en/domicile-in-sw...--1--1077.html

The canton of residence is not important as it's the KVG office in Soluthurn who deals with everything directly ( for all Swiss residents) so no health insurance company is involved at all.
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  #39  
Old 05.08.2015, 08:21
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Yes Belgian Mum that's correct. No idea what else to call them but KVG/LAMal as that's what's on their website! Solothurn office seems to deal with this countrywide as we're still in Ticino.
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Old 09.08.2015, 22:54
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Alas, while I know of many (including Swiss) who live in Italy and work in CH, I don't know anyone who does the opposite. Makes no sense.
I did the opposite a long time ago, - I worked in Milan for a time, whilst already residing in Ticino.

Moreover, there are people who live in Ticino who work in Italy, obviously nowhere near as many as Italians who work in Switzerland but reside in Italy, maybe not even 1/10th, but they do exist. Perhaps a couple of thousand?

I believe there are some managerial positions and the like, in certain sectors that actually pay higher salaries than equivalent positions in Ticino.

Some rents in Chiasso and nearby are lower than in Italy. Como and some surrounding towns are also very expensive.
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