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Old 22.07.2015, 18:30
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Accident insurance without health insurance

Is it possible to get accident insurance without taking out health insurance with a company? My husband & I are now covered for our health insurance through KVG/LAMAL (due to his work) but we want accident insurance as well and our previous insurance company won't let us continue with the accident insurance alone.
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Old 22.07.2015, 18:32
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Interesting question- loking forward to answers. But I am very curious about how you can get Lamal cover through work? I thought this was only possible for retired people from EU who do not have any income here.
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Old 22.07.2015, 18:35
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Husband works in Italy and we live in Ticino - there's some sort of reciprocal arrangement for commuting workers between Italy & Switzerland I think but I don't know the details! We had to fill in quite a few forms and it's been a bit challenging to get what we need from his work in Italy but we finally have it all after being here for 5 years!
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Old 22.07.2015, 18:42
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Well that makes a pleasant change - but I am truly surprised. If you live and are resident in Switzerland- do you pay taxes in italy or CH? Do you have a link re insurance? I am truly puzzled here.

Anyone?
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Old 22.07.2015, 18:54
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

My husband is taxed at source in Italy but we fill in tax forms here and pay what's necessary here - all above board and correct. I don't work so it would be correct that we have no income here in Switzerland.

We just have to send the forms we get from his work to KVG/LAMAL and it's all done. I think it's basically equivalent to having the old E111 form (EHIC) from the UK.

Last edited by trailingfidanzata; 22.07.2015 at 19:19.
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Old 22.07.2015, 19:27
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Would be interested in getting the official link on this. EHIC is only for emergencies not for casual/chronic illness. But if it is valid for illness, surely it would be valid for accidents too?

Not doubting you- just would like to see the official info. Tried to Google it- but all the info given is on Italians working in Switzerland- t'other way round seems so rare

Tom?
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Old 22.07.2015, 19:30
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

I think in Italy it's the S1 form (will need to double-check) - sorry I think you're right about EHIC being only for emergencies so this is different. I believe that the Italian government covers the health insurance for Italians working in Switzerland and so, in return, Switzerland does the same for Swiss residents working in Italy. You are correct that we are very unusual doing a reverse commute!
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Old 22.07.2015, 19:44
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Have you tried SUVA? or Baloise maybe.
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Old 22.07.2015, 19:55
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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I think in Italy it's the S1 form (will need to double-check) - sorry I think you're right about EHIC being only for emergencies so this is different. I believe that the Italian government covers the health insurance for Italians working in Switzerland and so, in return, Switzerland does the same for Swiss residents working in Italy. You are correct that we are very unusual doing a reverse commute!
Great news for you- but then accidents will be covered too, no?

Would still like to see the official link out of interest, as never heard of this. Tom?
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Old 22.07.2015, 22:32
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Is it possible to get accident insurance without taking out health insurance with a company? My husband & I are now covered for our health insurance through KVG/LAMAL (due to his work) but we want accident insurance as well and our previous insurance company won't let us continue with the accident insurance alone.
I don't quite understand - you have health insurance, but want to get rid of it and only have accident insurance or do you not have health insurance yet and want to get accident insurance?

As a resident in CH you are required to take out health insurance, as numerous threads on this forum state.

As for accident insurance, when your employment in Switzerland ends, you are often contractually required or strongly advised to take out accident coverage via your health insurance company. As your husband does not have employment here in CH (which if of a duration of min. 8hrs/week covers all work-related and some non work-related accident insurance), this isn't relevant though. Even if he were employed in CH I'd say that he, by not notifying his health insurance of the end of his CH employment contract and acquiring accident coverage with them, would simply lose coverage after (normally) a month. Relevant link for CH work related accident insurance here

You as a non-working person (did I get that right, you aren't employed?) as a CH resident do not have to take out accident insurance, as, as opposed to health insurance, it isn't mandatory.

By your "previous insurance company", do you mean your previous health insurance (have you changed companies since arriving in CH?) or do you mean your previous accident insurance?

Health insurance companies are required to accept you without question (but only for basic health insurance/KVG cover), and automatic accident insurance cover (meaning accident insurance can't refuse you) will be provided only if you are either employed in CH for 8 hours or more per week or registered as unemployed.

I don't see why health insurance should have to accept you for accident coverage (which they do if a person formerly employed by a CH employer has ended his employment or isn't registered as unemployed anymore, hereby normally combining health and accident coverage within the same health insurance company).

If you aren't registered as unemployed and/or not working in CH, if I were you I'd contact SUVA (the company which covers most accident insurance cases in CH) for further information relating to your specific, and complex, case.

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Would be interested in getting the official link on this. EHIC is only for emergencies not for casual/chronic illness. But if it is valid for illness, surely it would be valid for accidents too?
No, why? It is the European health insurance card, so accidents wouldn't be covered. Unless you are registered for both health and accident insurance with your health insurance company due to not being employed for at least 8hrs/week and not collecting unemployment benefits. Per definition accidents are sudden and not foreseeable.
Meaning that EHIC would not be valid for accidents for the working/registered as unemployed population in CH because accidents for these people are already covered by the automatic accident insurance you get through being employed for 8hrs/week at least or being registered as unemployed.

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Interesting question- loking forward to answers. But I am very curious about how you can get Lamal cover through work? I thought this was only possible for retired people from EU who do not have any income here.
Some employers provide coverage for basic health insurance (KVG), some do for paid sick days (Krankentaggeldversicherung (KTG)/assurance d'indemnités journalières en cas de maladie). The latter come into play when you have been ill for longer than the employer is required to pay your salary (as regulated in e.g. Art. 324a of the Swiss Code of Obligations) and pay (part of) your salary, the former pay for your medical treatment for illnesses (not accidents!).

So:
KVG - medical treatment coverage for illnesses which are not the consequence of accidents
KTG - salary replacement when employer ceases having to pay
UVG - medical treatment and possible pension for accident related issues

Last edited by glowjupiter; 22.07.2015 at 23:09.
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Old 22.07.2015, 22:39
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Tom?
Alas, while I know of many (including Swiss) who live in Italy and work in CH, I don't know anyone who does the opposite.

Makes no sense.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 23.07.2015 at 00:09.
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Old 22.07.2015, 23:14
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Are you sure you are not covered for accidents?

For example in the UK, you are covered by the NHS for illness and accident, there is no differentiation. So when abroad the EHIC works for both illness and accident.
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Old 23.07.2015, 00:04
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Are you sure you are not covered for accidents?

For example in the UK, you are covered by the NHS for illness and accident, there is no differentiation. So when abroad the EHIC works for both illness and accident.
Maybe, maybe not, the EHIC gives you the same cover on the same terms as a local, nothing more nothing less.
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Old 23.07.2015, 14:35
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Wow, have I opened a can of worms or a sore point here! OK just to clarify, especially for Glowjupiter who seems particularly confused!

Although we live in Switzerland, neither of us works here - I don't work at all and my husband works in Italy where he pays tax, contributions for health etc. We have an S1 form (& possibly another form as well) that my husband gets from work which we then forward to LAMAL/KVG and in return we get covered for our compulsory health insurance here through LAMAL - I assume this is due to the fact he pays for health care (like national insurance in the UK?) in Italy but as we don't live there we don't use it.

Although we've been here 5 years it took a couple of years before my husband found out about and could get hold of the relevant form (joys of Italy) to allow this to happen, and so before that we paid for health insurance from Sanitas.

Once we got married two years ago we then tried to get me added to the form which we have managed this year but we realised that it doesn't look like LAMAL covers us for accidents (although maybe they do I will drop them an email) which we want. Also we have two children now (who still have Sanitas insurance) and when we manage to get them added to the S1 (which again will probably take some time...) we will definitely want accident insurance for them. I should also add that we all have codice fiscale numbers for Italy (like a national insurance number in the UK) which is essential for this S1 form.

So finally, once I had my LAMAL insurance confirmed I spoke to Sanitas to see if it was possible to continue with the accident insurance alone but I was told this wasn't possible. And this is why I am now looking for an insurance company that will cover us just for accidents!

So I will contact LAMAL just to confirm they don't cover accidents (looking at their website it doesn't mention it) and then SUVAS and the other company mentioned by a previous responder.

Hope that clarifies our situation for all! I should add that I have no idea if this situation only applies between Switzerland and Italy, and I don't know anything about the German & French parts of Switzerland as we have only lived in Ticino!
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Old 23.07.2015, 15:02
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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I should also add that we all have codice fiscale numbers for Italy (like a national insurance number in the UK) which is essential for this S1 form.
Codice fiscale has nothing to do with insurance, but with taxes. It's a taxpayer identification number, even I have one and I don't live, work, own property, or pay taxes in Italy (but I do buy stuff from some websites who want one, so I got one).

Tom
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Old 23.07.2015, 15:04
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

Sorry wrong about the definition of codice fiscale but you definitely need to have one to fill in this S1 form and so benefit in this way. National Insurance contributions in UK are what you pay out of your salary to contribute to the cost things like the NHS (free healthcare), unemployment & sickness benefits and also pensions.
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Old 23.07.2015, 15:11
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Sorry wrong about the definition of codice fiscale but you definitely need to have one to fill in this S1 form
You need one for pretty much everything in Italy, including getting a SIM card at TIM (but not at Wind for some reason).

If you don't have one, you can create one here (it's accurate, for my wife it gives exactly the same code she got from the Agenzia Entrate)

Tom
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Old 23.07.2015, 16:33
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Wow, have I opened a can of worms or a sore point here! OK just to clarify, especially for Glowjupiter who seems particularly confused!

Although we live in Switzerland, neither of us works here - I don't work at all and my husband works in Italy where he pays tax, contributions for health etc. We have an S1 form (& possibly another form as well) that my husband gets from work which we then forward to LAMAL/KVG and in return we get covered for our compulsory health insurance here through LAMAL - I assume this is due to the fact he pays for health care (like national insurance in the UK?) in Italy but as we don't live there we don't use it.

Although we've been here 5 years it took a couple of years before my husband found out about and could get hold of the relevant form (joys of Italy) to allow this to happen, and so before that we paid for health insurance from Sanitas.

Once we got married two years ago we then tried to get me added to the form which we have managed this year but we realised that it doesn't look like LAMAL covers us for accidents (although maybe they do I will drop them an email) which we want. Also we have two children now (who still have Sanitas insurance) and when we manage to get them added to the S1 (which again will probably take some time...) we will definitely want accident insurance for them. I should also add that we all have codice fiscale numbers for Italy (like a national insurance number in the UK) which is essential for this S1 form.

So finally, once I had my LAMAL insurance confirmed I spoke to Sanitas to see if it was possible to continue with the accident insurance alone but I was told this wasn't possible. And this is why I am now looking for an insurance company that will cover us just for accidents!

So I will contact LAMAL just to confirm they don't cover accidents (looking at their website it doesn't mention it) and then SUVAS and the other company mentioned by a previous responder.

Hope that clarifies our situation for all! I should add that I have no idea if this situation only applies between Switzerland and Italy, and I don't know anything about the German & French parts of Switzerland as we have only lived in Ticino!
No worms or sore point here- but it would be interesting to have the official link, as it seems most of us have never heard of this exemption and cover. Perhaps you could ask Lamal in your e-mail for the official link? And of course, as usual, the right thing to go straight to the horse's mouth for a legal and sure reply- rather than an internet Forum. Getting the wrong info in case of serious illness or accident, just does not bear thinking about. Tell us how you get on- but it is probably correct that if you are covered for health by this exception, you are covered for accidents. As said, tell us how you get on.
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Old 23.07.2015, 16:57
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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it seems most of us have never heard of this exemption and cover
Obviously, as most of us who live in Switzerland don't work in the neighboring countries.

Tom
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Old 23.07.2015, 20:04
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Re: Accident insurance without health insurance

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Wow, have I opened a can of worms or a sore point here! OK just to clarify, especially for Glowjupiter who seems particularly confused!

Although we live in Switzerland, neither of us works here - I don't work at all and my husband works in Italy where he pays tax, contributions for health etc. We have an S1 form (& possibly another form as well) that my husband gets from work which we then forward to LAMAL/KVG and in return we get covered for our compulsory health insurance here through LAMAL - I assume this is due to the fact he pays for health care (like national insurance in the UK?) in Italy but as we don't live there we don't use it.

Although we've been here 5 years it took a couple of years before my husband found out about and could get hold of the relevant form (joys of Italy) to allow this to happen, and so before that we paid for health insurance from Sanitas.

Once we got married two years ago we then tried to get me added to the form which we have managed this year but we realised that it doesn't look like LAMAL covers us for accidents (although maybe they do I will drop them an email) which we want. Also we have two children now (who still have Sanitas insurance) and when we manage to get them added to the S1 (which again will probably take some time...) we will definitely want accident insurance for them. I should also add that we all have codice fiscale numbers for Italy (like a national insurance number in the UK) which is essential for this S1 form.

So finally, once I had my LAMAL insurance confirmed I spoke to Sanitas to see if it was possible to continue with the accident insurance alone but I was told this wasn't possible. And this is why I am now looking for an insurance company that will cover us just for accidents!

So I will contact LAMAL just to confirm they don't cover accidents (looking at their website it doesn't mention it) and then SUVAS and the other company mentioned by a previous responder.

Hope that clarifies our situation for all! I should add that I have no idea if this situation only applies between Switzerland and Italy, and I don't know anything about the German & French parts of Switzerland as we have only lived in Ticino!
If by "can of worms" you mean my long answer by any chance, I tend to give this kind of lengthy and detailed responses as they mostly are of use not only to the OP but also others who run by these posts - and would be useful to those who use the EF search function - unfortunately, quite a few newbies (not referring to you here, OP) do not do this and just post without previous research, get their answer and disappear never to be seen or heard from again

Yup, call SUVA and see what they say. Good luck.
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