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  #21  
Old 17.09.2015, 17:58
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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Thanks for the help and offers to translate the documents. My friend will help me translate them and contact the company. The letter is pretty strongly worded and pretty much says they think I'm a fraudster.


Anyway, positive vibes...
Just admit it was a stone already!!
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  #22  
Old 17.09.2015, 18:07
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Won't be easy to prove either way, I'm afraid- and the Insurance does have the unlimited services of a legal team. Now I am NOT saying that this is the case, but insurances have cottoned on that this is the oldest trick in the book. Person says ' S**t I've broken something and I am not insured' and friend replies 'no worries, I've got liability insurance so I'll claim it was me, and it will be covered'. As usual, the innocents get tarred with the same brush and lose. Without photos and independent witness/es- you really are unlikely to win against a powerful insurance. As Fatmansfilm says, you can count yourself lucky if they haven't sent claim to police.
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  #23  
Old 17.09.2015, 18:14
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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An update...


The letter basically says:


  • They are certain that the damage was caused by a stone, based on their 'investigations'.
  • They have cancelled my insurance and told me that I should find insurance with any other company ASAP.
  • They will send me the bill for the damage


This is really unexpected and it sucks. They're basically convicting me of fraud without even a single contact with me beforehand. How can their investigations 'prove' that it was caused by a stone, when it was completely caused by impact from the inside?!


I will contact them today but I'm just thinking about what I can say in this situation. Does anyone know my rights on this?


Thankyou all!
You could start by asking them to provide a copy of the report of their 'investigations' and any photographic evidence they might have.
There must be one for them to draw such a conclusion.

Maybe also go and speak to the garage who did the repair and ask them for photos of the damage too.

Your biggest mistake was in not taking a photograph of the damage at the time.
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  #24  
Old 17.09.2015, 18:55
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Thanks.


The photos / info from Carglass may help. The damage was right on the rear-view mirror attachment as I think I hit that with the bed (my friend reminded me about this).


The crack would look very different if it was a stone too, I expect.
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  #25  
Old 17.09.2015, 20:30
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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Won't be easy to prove either way, I'm afraid- and the Insurance does have the unlimited services of a legal team. Now I am NOT saying that this is the case, but insurances have cottoned on that this is the oldest trick in the book. Person says ' S**t I've broken something and I am not insured' and friend replies 'no worries, I've got liability insurance so I'll claim it was me, and it will be covered'. As usual, the innocents get tarred with the same brush and lose. Without photos and independent witness/es- you really are unlikely to win against a powerful insurance. As Fatmansfilm says, you can count yourself lucky if they haven't sent claim to police.
Rubbish, if it was broken from inside with the bed frame or from the outside with a stone this will show in the photos the garage surely have.
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Old 18.09.2015, 09:54
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Why would the garage, having found it was caused by a stone from the outside, take pictures from the inside? Makes no sense to me. Perhaps there even were chips on both sides, seems possible.

Do ask the garage for pictures, do make sure you get unaltered copies of the originals:
The higher the resolution the bigger the file, which may make them impossible to send by email, so the standard reaction would be to reduce resolution to reduce file size. Do make sure this doesn't apply to the pictures you receive as that may make important details unrecognizable. If necessary go there yourself, with a USB stick in your pocket.

Another thing is the cancellation of the contract. AFAIR, standard condititons say the contract is cancellable anytime when a insured(!) event happens. Now, since the claim was refused there's no such event, thus the contract can't be terminated immediately, which in turn would mean you're still insured by that company. Do check your contract if my assumptions are correct.
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Old 18.09.2015, 10:24
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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Why would the garage, having found it was caused by a stone from the outside, take pictures from the inside? Makes no sense to me. Perhaps there even were chips on both sides, seems possible.

Do ask the garage for pictures, do make sure you get unaltered copies of the originals:
The higher the resolution the bigger the file, which may make them impossible to send by email, so the standard reaction would be to reduce resolution to reduce file size. Do make sure this doesn't apply to the pictures you receive as that may make important details unrecognizable. If necessary go there yourself, with a USB stick in your pocket.

Another thing is the cancellation of the contract. AFAIR, standard condititons say the contract is cancellable anytime when a insured(!) event happens. Now, since the claim was refused there's no such event, thus the contract can't be terminated immediately, which in turn would mean you're still insured by that company. Do check your contract if my assumptions are correct.
The garage will have taken pictures of where the screen was damaged, which seems to be the question here, inside or outside.....
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Old 18.09.2015, 11:43
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

An update... the garage who fixed the screen actually told the insurance company it was caused by a stone, apparently. My friend (who owns the car) called them and they told her they will rectify the misunderstanding, so hopefully it's a simple solution.
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  #29  
Old 18.09.2015, 13:48
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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An update... the garage who fixed the screen actually told the insurance company it was caused by a stone, apparently. My friend (who owns the car) called them and they told her they will rectify the misunderstanding, so hopefully it's a simple solution.
They concluded this by themselves? they did not ask your friend, when she took the car, what caused the damage.?

Anyways, I hope it resolves this way. Just make sure your friend follows up with the garage that they did really contact the insurance co.


If this is the case, I imagine the company might send you a second letter, , maybe you would then want to write them a strong worded letter in the same tone as they wrote you

You may want to take a legal insurance for the future, in such disputes you can take them to court
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  #30  
Old 18.09.2015, 14:01
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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They concluded this by themselves? they did not ask your friend, when she took the car, what caused the damage.?
If the OP is being honest and the damage was caused by the bed and was on the inside I suspect it's more likely that the garage just made a mistake when they sent the papers to the insurers.
I think the vast majority of windscreen damage is caused by an impact of some sort from the outside ( stone or whatever) so that's what the garage is used to writing on the form and may have done just that in this case without thinking.
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  #31  
Old 18.09.2015, 17:27
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

I've done the same thing as the OP in the past. FYI, it's much easier to break such a window from the inside because it's concave from that side. The other side, the window is concave and can better distribute the load, just like an arch.
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  #32  
Old 24.09.2015, 10:12
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Another update in case anyone goes through the same thing...


I had a phonecall with the guy managing the case at the insurance company. Their 'investigation' is only what the repair company told them. The repair company said it's a stone, as I'm sure is the case in 99% of their repairs. So I've requested a new report from them and it should be OK. The insurance guy was very friendly and reasonable at least!
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  #33  
Old 24.09.2015, 10:38
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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I've done the same thing as the OP in the past. FYI, it's much easier to break such a window from the inside because it's concave from that side. The other side, the window is concave and can better distribute the load, just like an arch.
This.

Most likely there was a tiny, almost invisible, surely not observed, damage from the outside. When the windshield got whacked by the bed from the inside, even whacked on a different location on the windshield from the original outside damage, the blow from the inside would easily cause the previous damage to star out in any direction and become quite noticeable.

Usually glass damage is neither looked at nor questioned, and I could imagine that whoever made the original report automatically wrote in stoned.
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  #34  
Old 24.09.2015, 14:56
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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Another update in case anyone goes through the same thing...


I had a phonecall with the guy managing the case at the insurance company. Their 'investigation' is only what the repair company told them. The repair company said it's a stone, as I'm sure is the case in 99% of their repairs. So I've requested a new report from them and it should be OK. The insurance guy was very friendly and reasonable at least!
When it is really over and they pay the bill. Ask them for a written apology letter, this is not only for self esteem, but to cover yourself in case one day you decide to take another insurance with another company, you never know.
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  #35  
Old 24.09.2015, 15:19
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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When it is really over and they pay the bill. Ask them for a written apology letter, this is not only for self esteem, but to cover yourself in case one day you decide to take another insurance with another company, you never know.
Thanks for the advice, I'll do that. Luckily the guy at the insurance company speaks some English
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  #36  
Old 24.09.2015, 16:23
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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When it is really over and they pay the bill. Ask them for a written apology letter, this is not only for self esteem, but to cover yourself in case one day you decide to take another insurance with another company, you never know.
You have not lived in CH very long have you? Your more likely to win the lotto without buying a ticket. It's what the Swiss call a misunderstanding.
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Old 24.09.2015, 16:59
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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You have not lived in CH very long have you? Your more likely to win the lotto without buying a ticket. It's what the Swiss call a misunderstanding.
Well, it seems no matter how long one lives in Switzerland, the chance to "Switzerland-ed" never ends. Thanks for the tip though
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Old 24.09.2015, 18:23
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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It's quite easy to do, and doesn't take much force at all.

I've done it twice.

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  #39  
Old 29.09.2015, 18:50
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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You have not lived in CH very long have you? Your more likely to win the lotto without buying a ticket. It's what the Swiss call a misunderstanding.
I had a problem with CSS which eventually went away but not without causing me much stress, not least because I had to write letters in German, and I actually filed a complaint with them and said about how there was never any apology and I should send them a bill for my time. They wrote back and it basically said "Our policy is to not hold ourselves responsible for any consequential loss due to any mistake we make..." "....we pride ourselves on our excellent customer service."
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  #40  
Old 29.09.2015, 21:51
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Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

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I had a problem with CSS which eventually went away but not without causing me much stress, not least because I had to write letters in German, and I actually filed a complaint with them and said about how there was never any apology and I should send them a bill for my time. They wrote back and it basically said "Our policy is to not hold ourselves responsible for any consequential loss due to any mistake we make..." "....we pride ourselves on our excellent customer service."
And why shouldn't you write in German, why do you assume everybody has to speak English because of your inability to speak the local language where you live ?
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