Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Insurance
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:04
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 257
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 87 Times in 60 Posts
Enohzee has no particular reputation at present
Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Hi all,


I recently cracked my friends car windscreen when loading some furniture into it. I phoned my liability insurance to make a claim and it's all been fixed.


I received a letter from my insurance today stating that they believe I made a false claim and they found in their 'investigations' that it was a stone, hitting the outside of the window, that made the crack.


The letter basically states (I think - it's in French) that they are not responsible to pay and so I imagine they will send me a bill for the whole amount at some point. It seems like they also cancelled my insurance contract, if I understand correctly.


Obviously my first step is to contact them but it's a bit strange how they came to the conclusion that it was a 'stone'.


Any advice would be appreciated


Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:07
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,306
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 10,912 Times in 4,089 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

How exactly does one break a windscreen on a car (presumably from your phrasing, from the inside) when loading it with anything? Or from the outside for that matter. Maybe your explanation just didn't sound plausible enough.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Longbyt for this post:
  #3  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:16
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 10,959
Groaned at 542 Times in 342 Posts
Thanked 10,565 Times in 5,405 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

I expect you have witnesses, who were working with you, so why not write to the insurance company asking them to re-investigate the claim, suggesting you can meet them in court?

It takes a LOT of force to break a windscreen, enough to knock a person out, so I can understand their scepticism.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Sbrinz for this post:
  #4  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 257
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 87 Times in 60 Posts
Enohzee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

The damage was from the inside. I was loading in a part of a bedframe and stupidly knocked the square edge of it on the windscreen, causing a chip with cracks protruding from it. I can imagine it looked like a stone chip though. I have one witness, my friend who's car it is...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Enohzee for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:21
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,086
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,121 Times in 511 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

We had a similar situation, someone backed into my wife's car when it was parked, we put in the claim, it was approved and fixed, it was then reassessed and the claim disallowed. They would not budge when my wife spoke to them about it but our insurance broker managed to get it sorted. Luckily we had the approval in writing so they honored it, moral of the story, get it in writing from insurance before taking any action on remediation or repairs.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:23
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,306
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 10,912 Times in 4,089 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Did you take a picture of it with the bedframe still more or less in the same position? (I certainly wouldn't have thought of doing so.)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 257
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 87 Times in 60 Posts
Enohzee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

I didn't take any pictures unfortunately. It was left in the condition for a couple of weeks as it was still fully drive-able.


I only got the consent of the insurer on the phone, who told me my franchise amount and to take the car to a suitable garage who will then send them the bill.


It seems they want me to fork out the full amount which is strange also as if it was a stone chip, I would not be responsible (I never drove the car)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:35
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,061
Groaned at 294 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 5,125 Times in 1,827 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Has your friend got windscreen cover on their car insurance? This is normally excess free. If they have, send proof this to your insurance company and explain if it was a stone then your friend would have gotten it repaired on their own insurance.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
This user groans at Loz1983 for this post:
  #9  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 257
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 87 Times in 60 Posts
Enohzee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Quote:
View Post
Has your friend got windscreen cover on their car insurance? This is normally excess free. If they have, send proof this to your insurance company and explain if it was a stone then your friend would have gotten it repaired on their own insurance.

No she doesn't
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:55
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Was Belgium now Neuchâtel
Posts: 8,195
Groaned at 60 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 10,208 Times in 4,909 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Surely the 'investigators' can distinguish between damage emanating from the inside of the windscreen rather than the outside? They're pretty rubbish investigators if they can't.

Maybe you've misunderstood the letter. Why don't you post it here (with personal details removed) so that those of us who understand French can traps late it for you. Or you could PM me with the details and I could translate it for you.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:57
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Engelberg & near Basel
Posts: 5,855
Groaned at 167 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,886 Times in 3,980 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Quote:
View Post

It seems they want me to fork out the full amount which is strange also as if it was a stone chip, I would not be responsible (I never drove the car)
THey're assuming that you simply tried to avoid your friend paying for the screen, and as such that your friend will make good your loss. Be thankful if they don't refuse you cover next year.

And I'm assuming that they've looked at the removed screen and concluded from visible damage that it wasn't caused in the way you claimed. If not, I can't really imagine their grounds for refusal.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16.09.2015, 11:00
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,706
Groaned at 482 Times in 292 Posts
Thanked 3,925 Times in 1,960 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

The garage will CERTAINLY have photos, if only to cover their ass in a situation such as this.

Bad choice of excuse for fraudulent claim.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16.09.2015, 11:41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 257
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 87 Times in 60 Posts
Enohzee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

I understand it seems suspicious, but my claim was completely honest. The crack was from the inside, caused by damage from loading in some furniture. Not taking pictures was a silly mistake on my part...


I guess this might take a bit of effort to resolve..
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Enohzee for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 16.09.2015, 11:55
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,067
Groaned at 924 Times in 720 Posts
Thanked 19,583 Times in 9,430 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Quote:
View Post
How exactly does one break a windscreen on a car (presumably from your phrasing, from the inside) when loading it with anything? Or from the outside for that matter. Maybe your explanation just didn't sound plausible enough.
Quote:
View Post
It takes a LOT of force to break a windscreen, enough to knock a person out, so I can understand their scepticism.
It's quite easy to do, and doesn't take much force at all.

I've done it twice.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 16.09.2015, 12:17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 257
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 87 Times in 60 Posts
Enohzee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Thanks for the help and offers to translate the documents. My friend will help me translate them and contact the company. The letter is pretty strongly worded and pretty much says they think I'm a fraudster.


Anyway, positive vibes...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 16.09.2015, 12:19
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,306
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 10,912 Times in 4,089 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Quote:
View Post
How exactly does one break a windscreen on a car (presumably from your phrasing, from the inside) when loading it with anything? Or from the outside for that matter. Maybe your explanation just didn't sound plausible enough.
Quote:
View Post
It's quite easy to do, and doesn't take much force at all.

I've done it twice.

Tom
I wasn't questioning the force involved, I meant the positioning. When I cram stuff into a car, I do it from the back and even if something comes forward between the front seats, it isn't usually at windscreen level. This is why I asked - and might be what the insurance people were asking themselves too.

Two groans in two days! I think I'll stop asking questions and try fluff in my posts for a week or two.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Longbyt for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 16.09.2015, 12:30
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,706
Groaned at 482 Times in 292 Posts
Thanked 3,925 Times in 1,960 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Quote:
View Post
I understand it seems suspicious, but my claim was completely honest. The crack was from the inside, caused by damage from loading in some furniture. Not taking pictures was a silly mistake on my part...


I guess this might take a bit of effort to resolve..
No it won't, ask the garage for photos, they surely will have some.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 16.09.2015, 12:52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 257
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 87 Times in 60 Posts
Enohzee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Quote:
View Post
I wasn't questioning the force involved, I meant the positioning. When I cram stuff into a car, I do it from the back and even if something comes forward between the front seats, it isn't usually at windscreen level. This is why I asked - and might be what the insurance people were asking themselves too.
It was high on the windscreen, in the middle, just by the rear-view mirror.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 17.09.2015, 17:31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 257
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 87 Times in 60 Posts
Enohzee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

An update...


The letter basically says:


  • They are certain that the damage was caused by a stone, based on their 'investigations'.
  • They have cancelled my insurance and told me that I should find insurance with any other company ASAP.
  • They will send me the bill for the damage


This is really unexpected and it sucks. They're basically convicting me of fraud without even a single contact with me beforehand. How can their investigations 'prove' that it was caused by a stone, when it was completely caused by impact from the inside?!


I will contact them today but I'm just thinking about what I can say in this situation. Does anyone know my rights on this?


Thankyou all!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 17.09.2015, 17:53
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,716
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,029 Times in 6,254 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Liability insurance claim - not accepted

Quote:
View Post
An update...


The letter basically says:


  • They are certain that the damage was caused by a stone, based on their 'investigations'.
  • They have cancelled my insurance and told me that I should find insurance with any other company ASAP.
  • They will send me the bill for the damage


This is really unexpected and it sucks. They're basically convicting me of fraud without even a single contact with me beforehand. How can their investigations 'prove' that it was caused by a stone, when it was completely caused by impact from the inside?!


I will contact them today but I'm just thinking about what I can say in this situation. Does anyone know my rights on this?


Thankyou all!
They have not convicted you of anything, however may send the file to the Police.

You can take them to court if you wish.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Haftpflichtversicherung claim [third party liability insurance] noraki Insurance 4 02.07.2015 22:23
Permit B-to claim or not to claim money back? This is the question! Today_only Finance/banking/taxation 4 03.10.2014 19:37
car insurance - possible to NOT make a claim? shbloch Insurance 13 04.09.2014 16:41


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0