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Old 01.11.2015, 15:28
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Do we have to pay double health insurance?

We live in Geneva, partner has C permit, I have B permit. We are thinking of setting up a complicated life, 6 months Australia, 6 months Geneva ongoing.

Is there a way of paying health insurance in Switzerland only for the time physically resident here? Or we looking at paying 100% here and 100% in Australia for two 50% of the year stays.

Any thoughts appreciated!
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Old 01.11.2015, 15:33
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

You might find this helpful http://www.kvg.org/en/exemption-_content---1--1036.html

Frontier workers
Based on the principle of the place of income, generally, every employee living abroad but working in Switzerland is subject to compulsory health insurance in Switzerland. Frontier workers from Germany, Austria, Italy and France have the possibility to request an exemption from compulsory insurance in Switzerland in favor of a health insurance of their country of residence (option). This means that the frontier workers can get an exemption from the compulsory health insurance in Switzerland in order to remain insured in their country of residence. This possibility does not apply to any other areas of social insurance.
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Old 01.11.2015, 15:40
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

If you are being seconded to Australia for work, there may be an opportunity to be released from the obligatory health insurance in Switzerland if you are insured in Australia. See this document for details:

http://www.jgk.be.ch/jgk/de/index/pr...0Befreiung.pdf

You should bear in mind that leaving Switzerland for six month + 1 day, even without de-registering, will cause the B and C permits to be invalid:

"Wird die Schweiz ohne Abmeldung verlassen, so erlischt:
  • eine Kurzaufenthaltsbewilligung nach drei Monaten,
  • eine Aufenthalts- und Niederlassungsbewilligung nach sechs Monaten."
http://www.aufenthaltsbewilligung-ar...-bewilligungen
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Old 01.11.2015, 16:43
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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We live in Geneva, partner has C permit, I have B permit. We are thinking of setting up a complicated life, 6 months Australia, 6 months Geneva ongoing.

Is there a way of paying health insurance in Switzerland only for the time physically resident here? Or we looking at paying 100% here and 100% in Australia for two 50% of the year stays.

Any thoughts appreciated!
You can deregister, then you don't have to pay.
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Old 01.11.2015, 16:48
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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You might find this helpful http://www.kvg.org/en/exemption-_content---1--1036.html

Frontier workers
Based on the principle of the place of income, generally, every employee living abroad but working in Switzerland is subject to compulsory health insurance in Switzerland. Frontier workers from Germany, Austria, Italy and France have the possibility to request an exemption from compulsory insurance in Switzerland in favor of a health insurance of their country of residence (option). This means that the frontier workers can get an exemption from the compulsory health insurance in Switzerland in order to remain insured in their country of residence. This possibility does not apply to any other areas of social insurance.
Australia, not Austria. Your link also applies to Aargau, Appenzell Ausserrhoden, Basel Stadt and Glarus.
The OP is in Geneva.

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Old 01.11.2015, 17:14
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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We live in Geneva, partner has C permit, I have B permit. We are thinking of setting up a complicated life, 6 months Australia, 6 months Geneva ongoing.

Is there a way of paying health insurance in Switzerland only for the time physically resident here? Or we looking at paying 100% here and 100% in Australia for two 50% of the year stays.

Any thoughts appreciated!
I have to ask why would you want to? You not only have the insurance problem, but you'd need to probably keep renting a place here for the full year or struggle to find a new place every six months. And what about taxes? You going to pay double there too?

And as Mullhollander says, if you're out of Switzerland for more than 6 months at a time your permits become invalid.
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Old 01.11.2015, 17:30
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

Why would we want to live both places? Partly we are hoping it will make life cheaper for us, not more expensive! The dollar crashing means changing my Australian money is a bad move and the franc for now does well in Australia. Aging mother and those usual sorts of considerations.

I don't follow why we might pay tax twice - the two countries have a double taxation agreement. I earn my money in Australia, pay tax there as a tax resident of Australia. Don't pay tax in Switzerland.

My Australian income is not high and already I'm paying both the equivalent of a quarter of it in Swiss health insurance as well as paying compulsory Australian health. All this health insurance is killing me

I can see that there is the possibility of

"Exempt from the Swiss compulsory health insurance are persons holding a residence permit for individuals without employment according to the agreement on the free movement of persons or the EFTA convention, providing they possess an equivalent insurance cover for treatment in Switzerland.

Necessary documents to be handed in together with the (justified) request:
Copy of residence permit
Up to date insurance certificate issued by the responsible organisation abroad in respect of insurance cover for treatment in Switzerland (equivalent to KVG)"

However, I don't know if there are any Australian health insurers which would cover o/s in this way. I'm going to try to find out.
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Old 01.11.2015, 17:43
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

I doubt you'll get an exemption. Very few policies make the grade here in Switzerland. You'd need a worldwide policy I would guess and that could work out just as expensive as paying the Swiss one.

Still, what about rental costs here/there? And twice yearly flights back and forth? Is that really going to save more than it's costing you for insurance now?

And what about your other half? Is he employed here? An EU national? How can he get 6 months off work and still maintain residency here if he's not an EU national? And there's still the risk to your permits if you miss your return deadline through illness/airline delays, etc.
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Old 01.11.2015, 17:48
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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I doubt you'll get an exemption. Very few policies make the grade here in Switzerland. You'd need a worldwide policy I would guess and that could work out just as expensive as paying the Swiss one.

Still, what about rental costs here/there? And twice yearly flights back and forth? Is that really going to save more than it's costing you for insurance now?

And what about your other half? Is he employed here? An EU national? How can he get 6 months off work and still maintain residency here if he's not an EU national? And there's still the risk to your permits if you miss your return deadline through illness/airline delays, etc.
Fortunately my partner has already spent years on this job away from it for long periods - online works for him, so that's doable.

The flights are only once a year - I was forgetting that too At the moment we try to go over for a couple of months.

We would sublet here or get something cheap enough that we can handle it being empty and Australia will be cheap for us, no rent.

We'd be fine with a world wide one that covered us everywhere. If it only cost as much as the Swiss one it would be a lot better than paying 100% in both places! I am looking into that too.

But yeah, we know it is all horribly complicated and maybe in the end we'll figure it can't be done...
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Old 01.11.2015, 17:50
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

PS: I would thank people but I don't see how to. Sorry!
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Old 01.11.2015, 18:03
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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PS: I would thank people but I don't see how to. Sorry!
You'll be able to when you have 10+ posts.
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Old 01.11.2015, 18:18
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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The flights are only once a year - I was forgetting that too At the moment we try to go over for a couple of months.
Well, there's part of your problem. If you're going over so regularly that must cost a fair amount in flight costs.

If online works for OH then why not just stay in Aus and he can work from there remotely? Or another alternative is to have your permits put on hold if you can get his employer to send him on assignment to Australia for a few years. Being sent abroad by your employer is an accepted reason for putting a permit on hold and then you can reclaim them back again when you return to Switzerland. You can ask for them to be held for up to 4 years. No Swiss health insurance, could either sublet your place or give it up entirely and start afresh when you come back.
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Old 01.11.2015, 18:27
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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Well, there's part of your problem. If you're going over so regularly that must cost a fair amount in flight costs.

If online works for OH then why not just stay in Aus and he can work from there remotely? Or another alternative is to have your permits put on hold if you can get his employer to send him on assignment to Australia for a few years. Being sent abroad by your employer is an accepted reason for putting a permit on hold and then you can reclaim them back again when you return to Switzerland. You can ask for them to be held for up to 4 years. No Swiss health insurance, could either sublet your place or give it up entirely and start afresh when you come back.
He would have to spend time here too, the job doesn't permit a complete absence. Also, there are complicated family reasons for being this side of the world as well as for being the other side. One way or another, we really need to keep residency in Switzerland.

I think I said it was complicated.
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Old 01.11.2015, 18:41
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

50/50 will be difficult to achieve. If you do most of your time in Switzerland and go to Australia for less than 3 months then you make your primary residence switzerland and pay tax here as well as having your health insurance here. The problem is one of you works and earns money/pays tax in Switzerland, and the other in Australia, so how do you do maintain that ?

I do not see how you can be a 'tax resident' of Australia and be registered to live with a B permit in switzerland...in switzerland if you are married you are taxed as a household and you are registered in Switzerland as a resident so surely you are obligated to pay your taxes here under Swiss law, which includes worldwide income.

As for 'health insurance cost' in Australia, I thought medicare is free, for permanent residents/citizens so I'm not sure why you are paying 'twice'...unless you are not a citizen of Australia...or are not a registered resident of Australia. We de-registered from Medicare when we went overseas to live...and would use our Swiss health insurance and additional worldwide travel insurance for medical emergencies during short trips to Australia or outside Switzerland anywhere else. I assume if we had a longer illness and wanted it treated in Australia under the free health car system, we would then need to 'repatriate' and re-register to medicare and transfer our residency back to Australia.

The system is definitely designed so you have one 'primary residence'...not two...
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Old 01.11.2015, 18:43
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

I think maybe I've found one:

Swiss Care which seems to be fully compliant within Switzerland while covering other countries excluding US for a price that is pretty similar to what I'm paying now.
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Old 01.11.2015, 18:56
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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50/50 will be difficult to achieve. If you do most of your time in Switzerland and go to Australia for less than 3 months then you make your primary residence switzerland and pay tax here as well as having your health insurance here. The problem is one of you works and earns money/pays tax in Switzerland, and the other in Australia, so how do you do maintain that ?

I do not see how you can be a 'tax resident' of Australia and be registered to live with a B permit in switzerland...in switzerland if you are married you are taxed as a household and you are registered in Switzerland as a resident so surely you are obligated to pay your taxes here under Swiss law, which includes worldwide income.

As for 'health insurance cost' in Australia, I thought medicare is free, for permanent residents/citizens so I'm not sure why you are paying 'twice'...unless you are not a citizen of Australia...or are not a registered resident of Australia. We de-registered from Medicare when we went overseas to live...and would use our Swiss health insurance and additional worldwide travel insurance for medical emergencies during short trips to Australia or outside Switzerland anywhere else. I assume if we had a longer illness and wanted it treated in Australia under the free health car system, we would then need to 'repatriate' and re-register to medicare and transfer our residency back to Australia.

The system is definitely designed so you have one 'primary residence'...not two...
I'm a tax resident of Australia and a physical resident of Switzerland. That seems straightforward and the relevant authorities all seem happy with it. But as a tax resident of Australia I have to pay the medicare levy - it is done on tax residency, not physical presence.

I figure if you are trying to do both at once there will be some downsides as well as upsides and this is one of them! It is true that we could simply make do with our basic Swiss insurance since it covers emergency elsewhere, but I wondered if there were better options....

Australia and Switzerland have a tax agreement, and so far I have simply provided the documentation of my tax payments in Australia and have paid no tax here.
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Old 01.11.2015, 20:05
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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I think maybe I've found one:

Swiss Care which seems to be fully compliant within Switzerland while covering other countries excluding US for a price that is pretty similar to what I'm paying now.
Which one are you looking at? Because the only one I can see that might apply is their International Health Insurance and you have to be out of your home country for a minimum of a year. If you're coming back every 6 months I can't see you'd qualify.
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Old 01.11.2015, 20:23
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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Which one are you looking at? Because the only one I can see that might apply is their International Health Insurance and you have to be out of your home country for a minimum of a year. If you're coming back every 6 months I can't see you'd qualify.
http://www.swissglobalinsurance.com/..._duration.html

I have written to ask for clarification, but if you do a quote it says it is for both within and without Switzerland. It seems to follow all the requirements of ordinary basic compulsory insurance.
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Old 01.11.2015, 21:04
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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I think maybe I've found one:

Swiss Care which seems to be fully compliant within Switzerland while covering other countries excluding US for a price that is pretty similar to what I'm paying now.
Swisscare is for students only. Insurance for non-students will be significantly more expensive than their offering.

That said, if you're resident in Switzerland and visiting Australia, I don't see why your Swiss health insurance wouldn't cover you - and therefore, I don't see why you'd need Australian insurance.
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Old 01.11.2015, 21:40
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Re: Do we have to pay double health insurance?

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That said, if you're resident in Switzerland and visiting Australia, I don't see why your Swiss health insurance wouldn't cover you - and therefore, I don't see why you'd need Australian insurance.
Perhaps because if treatment in Australia is much more expensive than treatment in Switzerland, it won't be (fully) covered under certain circumstances. Source
This website says that Swiss coverage is therefore insufficient for treatment in Australia. Also, KVG only cover emergencies.

Also, spending half a year in Australia every year will most likely not be considered "visiting".
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