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  #41  
Old 16.03.2013, 22:57
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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"To no avail" = still haven't found what I'm looking for.... hence the post. Comparis query actually returned just 7 providers. Only one had a quote displayed. The rest had to be applied for (and only 3 were free online).

"Whats missing here ? a brand , image or warm feeling ?" Quotes.

"As crime rate is low here, not many careful drivers have experience of actually claiming in their insurance...at least I don't..." Pride comes before a fall.

Hmmm.... that's quite a talent you have Dave. You actually managed to avoid answering a single question I asked in my post! Congrats!
hahahhaha hhehehehehehe
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  #42  
Old 22.07.2015, 04:08
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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Let me reword my question … what I am interested is to take a look at this Supreme Court ruling (if it is true) and where can I find one? I am sure that honourable judges would have examined different views and arrived at a judgement that is fair and legally appropriate. It would be a surprise to me that if the court indeed made such a ruling and the insurance companies go flouting it …

Although, I come from a country where discrimination is rampant, the judicial system is democratic, independent and its fairness in judgement is very rarely questioned. If the judiciary has made a ruling that something is unconstitutional, there is no option left for any entity both government and private to disobey without appropriate consequences.
Did this fair insurance policy pricing ruling ever come into effect? I still see Auto insurance policy rates varying widely on Comparis depending on the country of origin chosen,
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  #43  
Old 22.07.2015, 11:30
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

I do not think that such a ruling exists, the claim made in this thread is from May 2007

This document from 2010 does not mention such a federal court ruling.
http://www.rwi.uzh.ch/lehreforschung...ont/Fall-2.pdf

Here a inquiry from a member of the parliament from 2012:
http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seit...ch_id=20121071
(The federals councils answer mention that some adaptions where made after the Waldmann paper was published)

And finally the paper by Prof. Dr. Bernhard Waldmann from 2007
https://www.unia.ch/uploads/media/ju...tikel_5318.pdf
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  #44  
Old 22.07.2015, 14:50
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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I do not think that such a ruling exists, the claim made in this thread is from May 2007

This document from 2010 does not mention such a federal court ruling.
http://www.rwi.uzh.ch/lehreforschung...ont/Fall-2.pdf

Here a inquiry from a member of the parliament from 2012:
http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seit...ch_id=20121071
(The federals councils answer mention that some adaptions where made after the Waldmann paper was published)

And finally the paper by Prof. Dr. Bernhard Waldmann from 2007
https://www.unia.ch/uploads/media/ju...tikel_5318.pdf
Hmm thanks so much for the links.
Expats continue to be royally screwed by Swiss auto Insurance companies!! Thank god it's not the same with health insurance.

Last edited by noipv4; 22.07.2015 at 15:17.
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  #45  
Old 22.07.2015, 15:00
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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Hmm thanks so much for the links.
Rxpats continue to be royally screwed by Swiss auto Insurance companies!! Thank god it's not the same with health insurance.
Derek has been a safe driver since he passed his driving test 30 years ago. He has never made a claim and has never committed a driving offence.

Wayne passed his test 5 years ago, since then he has written off 3 cars and been banned from driving twice.

Should their premiums be the same?

The answer is clearly NO. An insurance premium is calculated based on many factors - locations, age, sex, etc. For example if suddenly a lot of people in your area make claims your premium will go up. Or a lot of people the same age or sex, your premium will go up.

The same will happen with "nationality" - a Swiss national may be a historically lower risk than someone from the Former Democratic Republic of Bongo Bongoland.
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  #46  
Old 22.07.2015, 15:19
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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Derek has been a safe driver since he passed his driving test 30 years ago. He has never made a claim and has never committed a driving offence.

Wayne passed his test 5 years ago, since then he has written off 3 cars and been banned from driving twice.

Should their premiums be the same?

The answer is clearly NO. An insurance premium is calculated based on many factors - locations, age, sex, etc. For example if suddenly a lot of people in your area make claims your premium will go up. Or a lot of people the same age or sex, your premium will go up.

The same will happen with "nationality" - a Swiss national may be a historically lower risk than someone from the Former Democratic Republic of Bongo Bongoland.
Quote for a certain car for Swiss citizen = ~1.2KCHF pa
Quote for same car for a US citizen = ~2.4KCHF pa (B/C permit)

USA = Former Democratic Republic of Bongo Bongoland. ??
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  #47  
Old 22.07.2015, 15:27
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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Quote for a certain car for Swiss citizen = ~1.2KCHF pa
Quote for same car for a US citizen = ~2.4KCHF pa (B/C permit)

USA = Former Democratic Republic of Bongo Bongoland. ??
Quite possibly - it depends entirely on the companies own experience of insuring people frm FDRoBB and also that of the industry. It could well be that FDRoBBers claim more frequently and for higher amounts.

Lets say there are 100 of "you" and each year 1 of you makes a claim of 150,000chf (for an accident + medical + etc). The premium will be 160k + 40% costs + 10% profit = 240k /100 people = 2,400chf.

The premium is a reflection of risk - the higher the premium the higher the risk to the insurer.
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  #48  
Old 22.07.2015, 15:32
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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Quite possibly - it depends entirely on the companies own experience of insuring people frm FDRoBB and also that of the industry. It could well be that FDRoBBers claim more frequently and for higher amounts.

Lets say there are 100 of "you" and each year 1 of you makes a claim of 150,000chf (for an accident + medical + etc). The premium will be 160k + 40% costs + 10% profit = 240k /100 people = 2,400chf.

The premium is a reflection of risk - the higher the premium the higher the risk to the insurer.
Well then imo, it would be best to individualise every foreign national's quote, and adjust annually.

Generalization (pooling everyone into a general foreign-national bucket) is simply unfair for the careful and responsible drivers.
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  #49  
Old 22.07.2015, 15:39
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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Generalization (pooling everyone into a general foreign-national bucket) is simply unfair for the careful and responsible drivers.
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(The federals councils answer mention that some adaptions where made after the Waldmann paper was published)
I think that was the change, you are no longer in the general foreign from far far away and Balkan countries bucket but in the FDRoBB Bucket.
The problem with small buckets. Outliers will have a huge influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisson_distribution
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  #50  
Old 22.07.2015, 15:47
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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I think that was the change, you are no longer in the general foreign from far far away and Balkan countries bucket but in the FDRoBB Bucket.
The problem with small buckets. Outliers will have a huge influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisson_distribution
How about using a voluntary logging device in the car in lieu of lower (CH equivalent) insurance quotes. Correlate the data with that of 'SWISS' drivers in the same age-group, and if it's better or equivalent, maintain SWISS rates. I am sure a lot of people in the >35yr age group drive defensively.
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  #51  
Old 22.10.2015, 21:09
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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I had a bit of trouble getting car insurance as many insurance companies dont seem to like insuring holders of a 'carte de legitamation' (I have heard that Zurich, Allianz and Winterthur are the only companies that will insure you but I'm not sure how true this is).

In the end, I went with Zurich. haven't had any trouble with them. When I rang the salesman, he invited me to his office, took the time to explain everything to me and was generally very helpful. He was even happy to speak English with me (which can be unusual in Geneva).

I did notice that the premiums seemed to be pretty much the same among insurers, although the conditions (courtesy car etc) did seem to vary a little.

I've heard that Swiss insurance companies charge foreigners extra, however a colleague tells me that they are less likely to do this if you have a swiss driving license.
For the benefit of future users, I will share my experience of the same problem.

I contacted all three of those companies, and Zurich were the first to respond telling me that they won't cover someone with a Carte de Légitimation - I guess their rules have changed since Pacman tried it.

Winterthur (AXA) called me back to say that there was no problem. I have since been to their local office in Geneva (Vernier) where a very helpful representative guided me through the whole process of buying and registering a car in excellent English, and I'm yet to sign on the dotted line but will most likely go with them.

Allianz have an online tool for getting a quote that doesn't accept the Carte, but they have another online form to have a quote emailed to you which has an 'other' option in the resident permit box. I contacted them to have it explicitly said that this means the Carte is ok, but I haven't heard so much as an automated 'thanks for your message'.
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  #52  
Old 27.10.2015, 23:13
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

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I had a bit of trouble getting car insurance as many insurance companies dont seem to like insuring holders of a 'carte de legitamation' (I have heard that Zurich, Allianz and Winterthur are the only companies that will insure you but I'm not sure how true this is).

In the end, I went with Zurich. haven't had any trouble with them. When I rang the salesman, he invited me to his office, took the time to explain everything to me and was generally very helpful. He was even happy to speak English with me (which can be unusual in Geneva).

I did notice that the premiums seemed to be pretty much the same among insurers, although the conditions (courtesy car etc) did seem to vary a little.

I've heard that Swiss insurance companies charge foreigners extra, however a colleague tells me that they are less likely to do this if you have a swiss driving license.
I appreciate that I'm replying to an old thread but my experience might benefit future users. I contacted each of those three companies to have it said explicitly whether they would provide cover, and Zurich were the first to reply. I guess their policy has changed since Pacman's day as the chap told me it wasn't possible at all.

A local rep from Winterthur (AXA) then phoned me and said this was no problem at all. I ended up going with them and I was able to visit the rep's office where he explained everything to me in clear English and I left a satisfied customer.

As for Allianz, I am yet to receive so much as a 'thank you for your query, we'll be in touch' type message. However it is worth noting that while their form for requesting a quote online only accepts C, B or L in the residence permit box, another form for having a quote sent by email has an 'other' option. Perhaps someone else will have better luck with them in future.
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  #53  
Old 27.10.2015, 23:15
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

Apologies for the repeated messages. I'd got nothing but error messages until today but I guess a previous attempt did work. I can't see that there is a remove button.
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  #54  
Old 28.10.2015, 15:57
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Re: Opinions on Swiss Car Insurance Providers Please!

Hello How come your join date is 2006 and you buy your first car here 11 years after you have joined this forum?? BTW: I've been living in Galway for 8 years before coming to Switzerland - where are you from in Ireland?.

Anyway,

I have a good experience with Allianz (as for the initial contact with them, no claims so far so no experience here). They offered us the cheapest full comprehensive insurance for our 58k worth Toyota. We were quoted 1200 chf a year that including my nationality (Polish). They also have online-only service Allianz24 which is even cheaper but then you will not get an advisor (suit yourself, I prefer to have an english speaking representative in french speaking part of CH). They offer road assistance by default and you can have 500 CHF excess on your collision cover.
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