Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 12.06.2015, 10:18
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,401
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,582 Times in 6,204 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post

I've recently seen on the homepage of a hotel on some Greek island that the hotel touted its dependency on local farmers and producers, sourcing between 80 and 100% of meat, vegetables, fruits etc. from its own neighborhood.
They have some smart people there ;-)
I'm just back from a couple of days in Crete and there's definitely much less imported crap than you see in the other EU med countries. They've definitely understood the value of keeping the money "in the family", so to speak.
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 12.06.2015, 12:08
SemAms's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: im Ausland
Posts: 304
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 370 Times in 208 Posts
SemAms has earned the respect of manySemAms has earned the respect of manySemAms has earned the respect of many
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Some statements from EU officials hitting news wires:
*GREEK ACCORD WITHOUT IMF `UNIMAGINABLE': DIJSSELBLOEM
*EUROPE SEEKING GREECE ACCORD ALONE IS NOT DESIRED: DIJSSELBLOEM
*GREECE REJECTING PROPOSALS `NOT AN OPTION': DIJSSELBLOEM

Ok Greece issue is a big one but so is the European Union as a major economic force. IMHO Greece is an internal problem and EU should try to solve it on its own means

How can any self-respecting EU official make such comments??
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 12.06.2015, 12:19
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
Some statements from EU officials hitting news wires:
*GREEK ACCORD WITHOUT IMF `UNIMAGINABLE': DIJSSELBLOEM
*EUROPE SEEKING GREECE ACCORD ALONE IS NOT DESIRED: DIJSSELBLOEM
*GREECE REJECTING PROPOSALS `NOT AN OPTION': DIJSSELBLOEM

Ok Greece issue is a big one but so is the European Union as a major economic force. IMHO Greece is an internal problem and EU should try to solve it on its own means

How can any self-respecting EU official make such comments??
I get what you're saying, but on the other hand Greece owes the IMF billions - all major creditors have to agree a restructuring or change of terms, otherwise it doesn't work.

Europe doesn't want to take on the IMF debt as well, that sets a bad precedent and just makes the internal Euro structural issues even worse.
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 12.06.2015, 13:36
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

the recently-elected administration in Greece has frankly handled this about as badly as it could. the only leverage the Greeks have is the threat of default, which is no leverage at all and which they have overplayed, and the public noise about war reparations was shortsighted and counter-productive.

either they capitulate and accept the demands imposed upon them, or they default, Greece is the one with the burning platform and the EU has no reason to budge at all. people don't have to like it and maybe it isn't entirely fair, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #205  
Old 12.06.2015, 13:53
SemAms's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: im Ausland
Posts: 304
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 370 Times in 208 Posts
SemAms has earned the respect of manySemAms has earned the respect of manySemAms has earned the respect of many
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
I get what you're saying, but on the other hand Greece owes the IMF billions - all major creditors have to agree a restructuring or change of terms, otherwise it doesn't work.

Europe doesn't want to take on the IMF debt as well, that sets a bad precedent and just makes the internal Euro structural issues even worse.
Agree on the first part; all major creditors should be represented. Just like when a private bank defaults, all creditors are invited to take part in the debt talks.

People/companies are assumed to carry out their own risk assessments before investing in any company/country as such Greece/Portugal/Spain/italy all have been borrowing at higher costs than the sounder economies. BUT there is also an implicit assumption that the regulating body of the country is doing its job. In the case of private bank default, organizations like Central Bank and Regulatory bodies like FSA in UK are also questioned whether they had carried out their checks & controls properly.

Investors invested in Greece not just because they liked Greek debt/equities but primarily because Greece was part of EU and would follow EU standards/norms/rules within EU legal framework.

All taken together, I think EU has also big responsibility at the current issue. I think EU is chipping in not because of a moral obligation but rather to avoid the problem to spread to other countries through the banks holding huge Greek debts. EU should be focusing on helping Greece get back on track rather than giving some European banks chance to get out of Greek assets.
Previous debt extensions gave the banks the necessary time to accomplish that but the problem has now passed on completely to European public
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 12.06.2015, 13:59
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,401
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,582 Times in 6,204 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
the recently-elected administration in Greece has frankly handled this about as badly as it could. the only leverage the Greeks have is the threat of default, which is no leverage at all and which they have overplayed, and the public noise about war reparations was shortsighted and counter-productive.

either they capitulate and accept the demands imposed upon them, or they default, Greece is the one with the burning platform and the EU has no reason to budge at all. people don't have to like it and maybe it isn't entirely fair, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.
If Greece defaults there are going to be lots of European creditors writing off big debts. These include some major banks and pension funds. I don't think the EU is comfortable just yet with telling them "your problem". This is the ace card Greece is threatening to play. I think it's a pretty powerful one.

The EU also fears a domino effect. If we let Greece fall today, will we let Portugal fall tomorrow? Where does it stop?

Ireland? Spain? Italy? Belgium?
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 12.06.2015, 14:06
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,458
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 1,225 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
the recently-elected administration in Greece has frankly handled this about as badly as it could. the only leverage the Greeks have is the threat of default, which is no leverage at all and which they have overplayed, and the public noise about war reparations was shortsighted and counter-productive.

either they capitulate and accept the demands imposed upon them, or they default, Greece is the one with the burning platform and the EU has no reason to budge at all. people don't have to like it and maybe it isn't entirely fair, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Yes, but as I said: Greece has managed to make their default as expensive for everyone else as possible.
The only, albeit questionable, achievement of the current administration there.
And even if they default: they're still in the EU. The people have EU passports, EU has to work with them on border-protection and a thousand other issues etc.pp.
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 12.06.2015, 14:32
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
If Greece defaults there are going to be lots of European creditors writing off big debts. These include some major banks and pension funds. I don't think the EU is comfortable just yet with telling them "your problem". This is the ace card Greece is threatening to play. I think it's a pretty powerful one.

The EU also fears a domino effect. If we let Greece fall today, will we let Portugal fall tomorrow? Where does it stop?

Ireland? Spain? Italy? Belgium?
The difference with the other countries is they have a generally functional tax and government financial system; so with a bit of will they should be able to balance the books.

Greece doesn't seem to - if they put up taxes, nobody pays, or there's such a big black market that it makes no difference. Unfortunately they're simply not as advanced industrially or economically.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #209  
Old 12.06.2015, 14:44
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
If Greece defaults there are going to be lots of European creditors writing off big debts. These include some major banks and pension funds. I don't think the EU is comfortable just yet with telling them "your problem". This is the ace card Greece is threatening to play. I think it's a pretty powerful one.

The EU also fears a domino effect. If we let Greece fall today, will we let Portugal fall tomorrow? Where does it stop?

Ireland? Spain? Italy? Belgium?
I think about half of the Greek debt exposure falls under the EU financial assistance program, and Greece represents a significant majority of the program's exposure. the threat of default by Greece only brings leverage if the other EU member states think that the incremental risk of taking on more exposure is likely to result in greater likelihood of the entire debt being repaid. so far, I don't think there has been anything to suggest that the other EU member states feel that way.

I could be wrong entirely, but I don't get the sense that the EU is particularly concerned about a Greek default bleeding over into other member states, in part because the other states participating in the financial assistance program are considered to be on track.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #210  
Old 12.06.2015, 15:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,458
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 1,225 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
If Greece defaults there are going to be lots of European creditors writing off big debts. These include some major banks and pension funds.
AFAIK, ECB bought off these (more most of them, anyway) after the last hair-cut.
So, in effect, the European Taxpayer will definitely pay for those, at some point.

The ECB has also lent Greece banks a lot of money through these ELAs (so they can remain liquid - else a bank-run would be inevitable). But as I said, Greek citizens have been transferring that money out-of country.
So, now you've got people from Greece with bank accounts all over the world.
You can't just confiscate all that money once the music stops playing and Greece defaults.

So, the EU is in a very difficult situation and the people who advised three years ago to let them default were right.
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 12.06.2015, 15:33
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,086
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,065 Times in 1,054 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
If Greece defaults there are going to be lots of European creditors writing off big debts. These include some major banks and pension funds.
Not the case because most of that was addressed earlier on.

Quote:
View Post
Ireland? Spain? Italy? Belgium?
Ireland exited the bailout at the end of 2013 and of the 22.5b borrowed from the IMF, 18b has already been paid back 4 years ahead of schedule! In addition to this through refinancing the country has saved an additional 10b on debt financing. So with a forecast growth rate of 3.5% I doubt you'll see them collapsing any time soon!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #212  
Old 12.06.2015, 16:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,020
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,745 Times in 1,935 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

IF Greece leaves the Eurozone, the entire greece financial sector will fall as the banks are nothing but walking dead running on ECB liquidity. As a consequence the entire economy (what's left of it) will go down the drains. That would create a humanitary catastrophe the EU will be unable to ignore, and also cost a lot to mitigate even the worst symptoms.

Though GDP is down by 25% (more than the US in the Great Depression), Greece statistically speaking still has higher living standards than many other EU members. It must be difficult for these countries to help finance a relatively richer country, perhaps even seem cynical. After all, Greece has been frauding on its numbers since before joining, and they kept increasing indebtedness even while the economy was growing a stunning 14% annually (2001-2008). Not a good recipe for mercy, especially in light of what the other PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Spain) achieved.

Greece itself appears to not really be interested in cleaning up its house. Else they would have started reforming the tax system at least this winter, if not long ago, perhaps even accepted german support offered by Schäuble (500 tax experts IIRC). For instance, GR seems to not have a "Kataster", i.e. no nationwide register of real estate. That means the state doesn't know what taxable real estate there is, if it taxes fairly, nor if it gets paid what's lawfully due. Such a register has been in the works for at least two decennials, declared a failure yet once more not too long ago (this was the third time I think). And this appears to be just the tip of the iceberg.

Meanwhile, the pier in Piräus China bought around 2009 (pier 2 by Cosco) is said to be humming with activity, now pier3 gets extended by the Chinese as well, while pier 1 (still operated by Greece-owned OLP port authority) is drowning in rust and still ill-equipped.

In short (as it appears from this side of the Alps): It's a mess
Perhaps the Greece should have somebody else run the country
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #213  
Old 12.06.2015, 16:47
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,401
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,582 Times in 6,204 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
Greece itself appears to not really be interested in cleaning up its house. Else they would have started reforming the tax system at least this winter, if not long ago, perhaps even accepted german support offered by Schäuble (500 tax experts IIRC). For instance, GR seems to not have a "Kataster", i.e. no nationwide register of real estate. That means the state doesn't know what taxable real estate there is, if it taxes fairly, nor if it gets paid what's lawfully due. Such a register has been in the works for at least two decennials, declared a failure yet once more not too long ago (this was the third time I think). And this appears to be just the tip of the iceberg.
I can just imagine 500 German tax experts going into the Ktimatologio and telling them they should reform it all to be more like the German way. Greeks don't take well to being told that sort of thing. Reform must come from with in, and before you can have reform you must have the will to reform.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #214  
Old 12.06.2015, 18:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,020
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,745 Times in 1,935 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
I can just imagine 500 German tax experts going into the Ktimatologio and telling them they should reform it all to be more like the German way. Greeks don't take well to being told that sort of thing. Reform must come from with in, and before you can have reform you must have the will to reform.
Yup, probably no people does, and of course there's a certain historic phase to take into account as well. With that in mind, I doubt they were intended to have some kind of carrying-out (executive?) job. Rather, I would expect them to have a consultant or expert role.

Yes, the will seems to be lacking. However, being 1500km away can be good or bad, improve or worsen "picture quality". I seem to remember having read that two thirds of all homes had to make do without central heating last winter. Not so much due to lack of oil, but due to lack of ability to pay.

It's a mess


Edit:
According to this TA blog, particularly this chart, Greece must come up with €3.6bln today, or else. Considering they had to use IMF reserves to pay IMF debt, it may well be "or else".

Last edited by Urs Max; 12.06.2015 at 18:14.
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 12.06.2015, 19:10
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,458
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 1,225 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

They've postponed, bundled (and promised to pay) the IMF-payments to the end of the month.
That's when the shit really hits the fan.

I've never been to Greece, but judging by what people here and elsewhere say, it's almost bordering a failed state (most state-run services like health-care and education on life-support, so to speak).
If the ECB doesn't provide liquidity anymore, things will go south there faster than you can say "Katrina".
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 12.06.2015, 20:49
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,086
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,065 Times in 1,054 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
IF Greece leaves the Eurozone, the entire greece financial sector will fall as the banks are nothing but walking dead running on ECB liquidity. As a consequence the entire economy (what's left of it) will go down the drains. That would create a humanitary catastrophe the EU will be unable to ignore, and also cost a lot to mitigate even the worst symptoms.
I expect it would end up cheaper to provide aid on a humanitarian basis that continue to pour money into a Greek government that is unwilling to reform.
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 28.06.2015, 19:42
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,516
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,531 Times in 4,673 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Seems to be in the end game now, Greece departing with hundreds of billions in euro debts; around 90 billion to the ECB in the last few months alone..
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 28.06.2015, 21:48
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,458
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 1,225 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
Seems to be in the end game now, Greece departing with hundreds of billions in euro debts; around 90 billion to the ECB in the last few months alone..
Technically (I learned), the IMF is not required to declare a default until a month from Tuesday.
As of Tuesday, they'll simply be "in arrears".

So, everybody is working behind the scenes now to try to dig themselves out of the holes they dug themselves in.

My guess would be that this will end-up in another 100+ billion write-off of Greek debt - either way.
The politicians just have no clue yet how to sell that to their voters, in light of austerity-measures and cuts they had to suffer on their own...

And of course, nobody wants to be the one who puts the dagger into Greece (and eventually the Euro, if that is what comes out). That's probably the reason why the ECB has so far continued to provide ELA (which, given the circumstances, in itself is an almost criminal act IMO).

This, of course, shows the larger problem of Europe: nobody wants to make decisions that hurt or make voters unhappy, until it's too late - and then the problem has usually grown so much that the original, hurtful fix isn't even enough anymore.
But knowing our politicians, this mixed game of Jenga and "first one to move loses the game" will continue for a while.

"Everybody gets the politicians they deserve".
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #219  
Old 28.06.2015, 23:13
parnell's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 382
Groaned at 88 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 945 Times in 444 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Amazing to me how Goldman Sachs has not suffered a $100 bn fine for assisting the fraud allowing the Greeks into the Euro in the first place. In any case it is clear that they have no place in there and must rely on the ability to frequently devalue until the day that they can collect taxes and spend responsibly.

Sad that much poorer but more fiscally responsible peoples are paying for the sins of the Greeks.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank parnell for this useful post:
  #220  
Old 29.06.2015, 00:30
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,086
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,065 Times in 1,054 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Quote:
View Post
Technically (I learned), the IMF is not required to declare a default until a month from Tuesday.
As of Tuesday, they'll simply be "in arrears".

So, everybody is working behind the scenes now to try to dig themselves out of the holes they dug themselves in.

My guess would be that this will end-up in another 100+ billion write-off of Greek debt - either way.
The politicians just have no clue yet how to sell that to their voters, in light of austerity-measures and cuts they had to suffer on their own...

And of course, nobody wants to be the one who puts the dagger into Greece (and eventually the Euro, if that is what comes out). That's probably the reason why the ECB has so far continued to provide ELA (which, given the circumstances, in itself is an almost criminal act IMO).

This, of course, shows the larger problem of Europe: nobody wants to make decisions that hurt or make voters unhappy, until it's too late - and then the problem has usually grown so much that the original, hurtful fix isn't even enough anymore.
But knowing our politicians, this mixed game of Jenga and "first one to move loses the game" will continue for a while.

"Everybody gets the politicians they deserve".
It has not been about debt repayment for along time! Take a good look at the EU proposals - it's been about trying to get the Greek government to restructure the economy in order to stem the flow! Five years, three governments and billions later and these guys are still debating about it rather than doing! Debt repayment was the only force that could be applied and it has not worked. The EU's position has always been to try and find a compromise but since the Greeks left the room so to speak the game appears to be over!
__________________
"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
euro, europe, greece




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gadhafi interview in Der Spiegel Orla Swiss politics/news 10 14.06.2010 16:21
Euro 2008 adoption zone (official) PlantHead Football/sports 50 07.06.2008 18:51
[Tickets for Sale] EURO 2008: Follow Greece (swap preferred) HashBrown Items for sale 9 03.06.2008 18:13
zone extension to 24hr zone 10 pass?? josk Transportation/driving 5 22.02.2007 18:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0