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  #101  
Old 18.06.2011, 15:14
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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True I preferred EEC myself

The ominous thing about the EU is the very powerful unelected EU commissioners who do not seem to be fully under the control of the elected European Parliament.

I see Moody are threatening Italy with a credit rating downgrade, tough & tougher times for the euro.

Be interesting to see if the involved EU ministers do agree the Greek bail out tomorrow & for how long that will bring peace.
Barroso, president of the EU commission wasn't elected -it was some mysterious process by which he became president and had no contender.

The € won't survive if it continues the way it is today. You can patch it every now & then but you can't really fool the markets for long.
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  #102  
Old 18.06.2011, 17:16
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Germany could leave the Euro. It has the cash to launch a new currency, it would have no credibility problem. It could "back its new currency"/"provide Euro Aid" by holding a large portfolio of Euro bonds. Germany is the odd one out in the Euro Zone in my view.
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  #103  
Old 18.06.2011, 18:32
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Considering that Germany was one of the "Big Three" that pushed the Euro through, I would find it highly unlikely that they would abandon thier project when the going gets a bit tough. JMO, but really... the Euro was not really about protecting individual countries' interests.

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Germany could leave the Euro. It has the cash to launch a new currency, it would have no credibility problem. It could "back its new currency"/"provide Euro Aid" by holding a large portfolio of Euro bonds. Germany is the odd one out in the Euro Zone in my view.
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  #104  
Old 18.06.2011, 19:14
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

How much truth is there in the popular saying in Europe that the EURO is mostly a lexicologic trick to introduce the D-Mark in whole Europe? To what extent is the EURO just another name of the D-MARK?

Lots of urban legends about this, so you finance people would know, woudn't you?
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  #105  
Old 18.06.2011, 19:14
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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But just where does Europe end then? Israel has expressed its desire to join along with EU commissioners, if Israel is a European country then so is Syria Jordan Egypt Iraq Iran Afghanistan...and if Russia can be part of the EU then so can Mongolia.
The question now is, who pays for all this?
Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan are members of the "Mediterranean Partnership, a brainchild of Dominique de Villepin and Nicolas Sarkozy, and that way closely linked with the E.U. . But none of them is in Europe. Turkey due to the Med.P. has lost its previous privilege of a very close relationship with the EU, which is the reason why it is looking for a longterm move to join.

Iran and Afghanistan are clearly NOT in either area but definitely in Asia. Mongolia does not have the main part in Europe, not even a slice of its country. In regard to Russia, just look at the DOMTOM parts of France ! You did not say that if France can be a member so also could be Brasil

You correctly mentioned Iraq. As outlined above, most of the Arab World, through the Med.P. now is closely linked with the E.U. already, and so, you can expect Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Oman and Yemen joining the Med.P. in a not too distant future.

Nursultan Nazerbayev and Islam Karimov, the chiefs of Kazakstan and Uzbekistan years ago started to link up Central Asia with China, South Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, Japan and the Philippine Islands. You can expect Afghanistan to join that group in a not too distant future .... and so may Iran.
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  #106  
Old 18.06.2011, 19:40
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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How much truth is there in the popular saying in Europe that the EURO is mostly a lexicologic trick to introduce the D-Mark in whole Europe? To what extent is the EURO just another name of the D-MARK?

Lots of urban legends about this, so you finance people would know, woudn't you?

They thought € would be the new Deutsche Mark...evidently, we all know that it is far far from that...
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  #107  
Old 18.06.2011, 19:57
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan are members of the "Mediterranean Partnership, a brainchild of Dominique de Villepin and Nicolas Sarkozy, and that way closely linked with the E.U. . But none of them is in Europe. Turkey due to the Med.P. has lost its previous privilege of a very close relationship with the EU, which is the reason why it is looking for a longterm move to join.
I stand corrected; EEA membership I meant. Read on what the EU commissioner had to say:

http://archive.globes.co.il/searchgl...uDIveT6ri.html

Berlusconi said he'd throw his weight behind their full EUmembership.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...842743,00.html
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  #108  
Old 18.06.2011, 22:03
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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I stand corrected; EEA membership I meant. Read on what the EU commissioner had to say:

http://archive.globes.co.il/searchgl...uDIveT6ri.html

Berlusconi said he'd throw his weight behind their full EUmembership.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...842743,00.html
A) Verheugen is an old Super-Pro-Israeli, so that this is not new
B) Berlusconi talks a lot during long days, but he knows that France will never allow Israel to join, UNLESS the countries of the Arab World can join
C) Israel in the framework of the Med.P. has conditions comparable with those of the EEA and of Switzerland (NOT member of the EEA)
C-2) the Med.P. actually is a compromise. When King Hassan II wanted Morocco to join the E.U. and got blocked, he and Dominique de Villepin and Nicolas Sarkozy developed the idea of the Mediterranean Partnership. The two Frenchmen anyway disliked the preference of Turkey over the Arab World. Interesting is that Israel is now in the same boat as the major Arab countries are
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  #109  
Old 20.06.2011, 01:25
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What to do with Euro's?

With the rate so bad it hurts to bring euro's to chf, but what is going to happen to the euro?
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  #110  
Old 20.06.2011, 01:56
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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They cannot leave. I mean they cannot leave Europe. And to establish a currency of their own would cost some billions they do not have. Germany in reality also had to support Greece, regardless of what money the Greeks are using.
This whole EU single currency is just a monetary project which was highly flawed from the start of it. They are moving back to square one and asking for a second bailout because of the first bailout's failure because the Greeks are actually spending more...They should instead give them the money as a sort of severence package and let them fend for themselves with their own currency....the future doesnt seem too bright when there may be other EU nations which will need a bailout as well. So best thing to do if ur France or Germany is to bail.
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  #111  
Old 20.06.2011, 11:04
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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This whole EU single currency is just a monetary project which was highly flawed from the start of it. They are moving back to square one and asking for a second bailout because of the first bailout's failure because the Greeks are actually spending more...They should instead give them the money as a sort of severence package and let them fend for themselves with their own currency....the future doesnt seem too bright when there may be other EU nations which will need a bailout as well. So best thing to do if ur France or Germany is to bail.
No firm bail out agreement by the EU finance ministers at the Weekend so the euro is dropping in value again.

The idea by the EU finance ministers that private investors roll over their bond holdings voluntarily seems a bit optimistic

I will not invest in euros for the next month or 2.
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  #112  
Old 20.06.2011, 11:18
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

One thing the Greek governement haven't mentioned yet while they plunder the public sector and pocket dip average members of the Greek public to play up to the EU.

Is to get at the Greek tax dodging upper classes who seem to think paying taxes is a bit like a church collection plate...i.e. non-mandatory. For years they've avoided their responsibilites.

Time for a few people to go to jail and have their assets seized I feel.
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  #113  
Old 20.06.2011, 13:51
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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One thing the Greek governement haven't mentioned yet while they plunder the public sector and pocket dip average members of the Greek public to play up to the EU.

Is to get at the Greek tax dodging upper classes who seem to think paying taxes is a bit like a church collection plate...i.e. non-mandatory. For years they've avoided their responsibilites.

Time for a few people to go to jail and have their assets seized I feel.
In Greece we say:
if your taxes are 10000 € and you don't pay, you go to jail.
If your taxes are 1000000 € and you don't pay, you are a successful businessman (and of course, not in jail).

Right now Greeks are struggling to pay their taxes (mine is already 50% of my income) while Greek Orthodox Church doesn't!
They don't have to pay taxes but the state has to pay their salaries.
Is it only me or maybe it's time for a change?

So far in Greece no one, ever, touched the "Church" but it's a big crisis and we should all help equaly.
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  #114  
Old 20.06.2011, 14:06
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Re: What to do with Euro's?

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With the rate so bad it hurts to bring euro's to chf, but what is going to happen to the euro?
Inflation? More inflation?
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  #115  
Old 20.06.2011, 21:44
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

It'll be fine folks, take Papandreou's word for it...it'll be just fine.
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  #116  
Old 20.06.2011, 21:59
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Re: What to do with Euro's?

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With the rate so bad it hurts to bring euro's to chf, but what is going to happen to the euro?
The problem for Switzerland is the too high exchange-rate of the CHF. So that the question is what is going to happen with the CHF. The economy is increasing pressures upon Economics Minister Johann Schneider-Ammann to do something for both the export industry and the inbound tourism
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  #117  
Old 20.06.2011, 22:03
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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This whole EU single currency is just a monetary project which was highly flawed from the start of it. They are moving back to square one and asking for a second bailout because of the first bailout's failure because the Greeks are actually spending more...They should instead give them the money as a sort of severence package and let them fend for themselves with their own currency....the future doesnt seem too bright when there may be other EU nations which will need a bailout as well. So best thing to do if ur France or Germany is to bail.
They cannot "fend for themselves with their own currency" as they do not have a currency of their own, and a new currency had to be financed by the E.U. . AND Greece, also if no longer in the Euro would ask for financial help nevertheless.
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  #118  
Old 21.06.2011, 01:19
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Euro was introduced as a competitor currency to Dollar, and they can no way compete with Dollar until Oil and Commodities are traded in Euros.
.
True very very true ! Any ideas who was the one to start trading Oil in Euros ? Kadhafi !!

I will not go into a deep analysis of the situation in Greece. just a few points to mention.

-Greece did indeed manipulate the numbers to be accepted to Euro. But who didn't ? Italy,Spain,France ?? And after all EU had confirmed the numbers...
-Greek Banks. They are a big part of the problem because they never calculated the Risk of giving money to people to buy property, cars, or even go to holiday !!
-Greek Politicians. They are so corrupted, and never any single of them was sent to jail
-IMF. A complete failure ! They killed the economy, by forcing cuts, without even analyzing the situation in Greece. They don't have a plan, they never succeeded with any country !! They follow a "one solution fits all" strategy.
-Morgan Stanley and others... Well done guys ! We should really trust you and your ratings! You did foretell the big crisis didn't you ? Experts my $#@^s...

-EU.
The Germans ! You know which is the most corrupted company in Greece ? Siemens.
In the beginning (even some days ago...) they were very happy with Euro going down... They increased their exports ! And even more, they forced Greece to continue buying weapons from them ! Now they see it coming and try to really do something, but I think it's too late.

The French. We will help you but this reminds us of those Milion Euro weapon orders pending... !! And you know what ? Greece spends like 20% of the money for the Army.

Greece is having a huge problem with millions of refugees coming from Pakistan, Turkey, Irak, Iran all over the Middle East. You know it's not that easy to guard see borders.What is EU doing for this ? They signed a paper, stating that refugees should be accepted and STAY in the Entrance Country !! Italy is now having the same problem...

And last but not least the Greeks... They still think that the whole world owes them for living in the same piece of land where the Ancient Greeks used to live. However they lack most of the Ancient Greeks' virtues.
They never cared about the future ! They were just enjoying the Greek Economy miracle-bubble.. And now they are not really willing to pay the prize.

What will happen in the near future ? How should I know ? I didn't bet on Greece's default. Ask those who did. After all it's a game for some people isn't it ?

My question is, when you gamble (by giving money to someone) you do somehow calculate the risk and ask for higher rates right ? So why shouldn't you pay the prize of a default ?? It's like a win-win situation if you don't...

apologies for the size of my post...
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  #119  
Old 21.06.2011, 10:58
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

euro is staying at a remarkably high value level considering the situation.

Rumours are this is due to either (or both) very hard nosed gamblers who believe Greece will be rescued at the last minute and/or Chinese secretly buying euros due to their long term view of euro value and/or a desire to get out of US$.
It seems to be that there is a hole of at least $150Bn in Chinese assets that some people believe was secretly invested in euro; of course these days $150Bn is not what it was & probably not enough to influence euro value unless it indicates a long term Chinese trend (Even little Switzerland has circa 150Bn euro in the cellar)

Latest Info -
Europe's hopes of preventing Greece defaulting on its debts were knocked today as ratings agency Fitch declared that it would treat any "voluntary debt rollover" as a default.

Last edited by marton; 21.06.2011 at 12:42.
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  #120  
Old 21.06.2011, 16:37
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

So, having a nest egg in Euro's, i am feeling rather panicky! what is the best alternative at the moment?
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