Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 25.07.2011, 22:25
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,391
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,685 Times in 12,106 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Quote:
View Post
It could happen anywhere - but I am absolutely sure I couldn't be the perpetrator.
It's very comforting to believe that, isn't it?
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 25.07.2011, 22:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,377
Groaned at 369 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 22,382 Times in 10,071 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

I am quite sure I could kill - to protect my children and grand-children, and maybe if witnessing an attack on a friend, or even a stranger. This however, is unthinkable- nothing smug about it, I can assure you. It really couldn't 'easily' be any of us.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #203  
Old 25.07.2011, 22:37
NSchulzi's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 2,429
Groaned at 56 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,523 Times in 1,215 Posts
NSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Quote:
View Post
I am quite sure I could kill - to protect my children and grand-children, and maybe if witnessing an attack on a friend, or even a stranger. This however, is unthinkable- nothing smug about it, I can assure you. It really couldn't 'easily' be any of us.
I would like to think so too (especially after having been accused of murdering Amy Winehouse yesterday)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NSchulzi for this useful post:
  #204  
Old 25.07.2011, 22:41
porsch1909
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Quote:
View Post
I am quite sure I could kill - to protect my children and grand-children, and maybe if witnessing an attack on a friend, or even a stranger. This however, is unthinkable- nothing smug about it, I can assure you. It really couldn't 'easily' be any of us.
Who are you kidding Odile? After meeting you, the only way you could kill someone is from too many hugs
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #205  
Old 25.07.2011, 22:42
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,391
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,685 Times in 12,106 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Quote:
View Post
I can assure you. It really couldn't 'easily' be any of us.
And I can assure you that it could.

But if you want to believe that you, alone amongst all the people in the world, are incapable of acts of great evil, don't let me stand in your way.

Quote:
View Post
I would like to think so too (especially after having been accused of murdering Amy Winehouse yesterday)
I made no such accusation.

Please go back and read what I wrote about our shared responsibility for her death.
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 25.07.2011, 22:52
NSchulzi's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 2,429
Groaned at 56 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,523 Times in 1,215 Posts
NSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Quote:
View Post


I made no such accusation.

Please go back and read what I wrote about our shared responsibility for her death.
Then your memory is failing you DB.
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 25.07.2011, 23:04
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,815
Groaned at 189 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 24,338 Times in 6,540 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Methinks DB is trolling. Could any of us be a nut job mass murdurer? Potentially. Could it be *you*? Potentially. Imagine that you have some kind of brain trauma (hemorrhage, bang on the head, one too many people standing in your way as you try and get off a tram) and your personality changes.

Not very likely, but nothing is impossible. However, this topic is pointless imo. You're making me angry. Grrrr. My head hurts.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #208  
Old 26.07.2011, 00:07
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,391
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,685 Times in 12,106 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Fine, whatever. You're all lovely, incapable of evil, the nasty man in Norway was unique, as were all the ordinary people who supported the Nazis in Germany, the communists in Russia and Pol Pot in Cambodia.

Yup. They must be special. They're nothing like us. Oh no... we're all lovely, we are.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #209  
Old 26.07.2011, 00:26
MusicChick's Avatar
modified and reprogrammed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 9,719
Groaned at 88 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 11,212 Times in 5,569 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Comparing folks to criminals or confused souls who lead super destructive lives isn't probably the most efficient way to induce the feeling of humility in humankind.

I don't think our acts are a mere product of the environment. I don't think society is evil now since we have blood thirsty medias and readership or violent computer games or racist politicians.

Things have always been more complex than that. I am attracted to catholicism, but the overbearing, unsophisticated, apriori guilt trip one gets is turning me off. Good poetry, though.

Morals are relative. But trying to stop people expressing their views..dunno. They might not be sharing because they think they are better and just try to one up anybody else. Maybe they want to state their little mantra, without the "I am better" that some readers here try to read into the posts, maybe they are just trying to simply support anybody who needs a little bit of reassurance. Can be seen as bravery, not cheap way to fish for street cred, or flaunting egos.

Different cultures, different ways to talk about things.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H.Pestalozzi
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #210  
Old 26.07.2011, 00:59
porsch1909
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Explosion in Oslo



Stay Classy The Sun
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 26.07.2011, 02:53
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Quote:
View Post
actually the Norwegian sites claim that he can be jailed indefinitely:

Forvaring kan fĝre til fengsel livet ut, pċ grunn av at den opprinnelige dommen kan bli forlenget et uavgrenset antall ganger.

Preventive detention can lead to imprisonment for life, because the original sentence can be extended for an indefinite number of times.
20 years ? 30 years ? 50 years =`? --> does it matter ? the point is that he got caught and that he is to get sentenced. He most likely will be behind bars until 2030 or 2040, times when events of 2011 will have become history
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 26.07.2011, 04:49
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 983
Groaned at 20 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 639 Times in 355 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Quote:
View Post
And I can assure you that it could.

But if you want to believe that you, alone amongst all the people in the world, are incapable of acts of great evil, don't let me stand in your way.
I don't think Dougal's Breakfast is trolling, but rather using this tragedy as an opportunity to reflect on humanity's capacity for evil. Not simply evil done by a community, but by a single individual---any one of us. In one of her novels (I won't say which one for fear of spoiling the ending) Agatha Christie wrote that ordinary people are capable of murder if enough of the right buttons are pushed. It would take a hell of a lot of buttons to get most people here to kill over 75 innocent people in cold blood, but I think that a lot more people than we care to admit are one snap away from committing manslaughter.

Militaries around the world (including Switzerland) have successfully broken down the reluctance of the average person to take a human life to form armed services. If I were put in a situation where my life was in danger and I saw my comrades in arms killed before my eyes, killing quickly becomes a lot easier. Furthermore, if I didn't see any noticable difference between "innocent civilians" and "enemy combatants", participating in an unthinkable tragedy like My Lai becomes a lot more thinkable.

The worst mistake that can be made with tragedies like this massacre in Oslo, or the Holocaust during World War II is to forget that it happened at all. The second worst would be to assume that only a Norweigan nutcase or the German people are capable of such acts and they cannot be done by our neighbours or ourselves in our very back yards.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank eddiejc1 for this useful post:
  #213  
Old 26.07.2011, 06:41
Mud's Avatar
Mud Mud is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Romandie
Posts: 2,567
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 4,996 Times in 1,823 Posts
Mud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

A clockwork Socrates appears!
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 26.07.2011, 15:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,377
Groaned at 369 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 22,382 Times in 10,071 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

We had a really good neighbour where we lived when our kids were young. Her OH was also very kind, but quiet and at times moody. We are still in touch with his son, and he showed us letters written by his dad when he was a young man (almost a kid still at 19) serving in bomber command. His constant use of 'Gerry really got it last night' are blood chilling (after the bombing of Hamburg). Civilians, old-people and children, 1000s of them, just de-humanised by one single word for the enemy 'Gerry'. One of his letters ended with how he was very scared and excited at the same time.. then 'well, it was worth it for double rations of eggs and bacon on return'. As said, chilling to read- and he was such a kind man. His wife believed his mood swings were due to what he went through during the war.

So yes, I see what you mean. But this is very very different. Yes it could happen anywhere.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
This user groans at Odile for this post:
  #215  
Old 27.07.2011, 03:41
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 983
Groaned at 20 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 639 Times in 355 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Explosion in Oslo

One more thing, Odile. Wolli can give more details but I think Swiss cities like Zurich were mistakenly bombed by the Allies. 40 people were killed in a bombing raid over Schaffhausen (it's on the north bank of the Rhine River---that's probably why the Americans thought it was a German city) and the U.S. paid CH $4M in restitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing...n_World_War_II

P.S. A link to Schaffhausen's page on wikipedia says even more people died in the bombings---over 100 civilians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaffhausen
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 27.07.2011, 07:00
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,391
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,685 Times in 12,106 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Quote:
View Post
I think Swiss cities like Zurich were mistakenly bombed by the Allies.
"Mistakenly"?
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 27.07.2011, 09:56
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,030
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,500 Times in 3,133 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

The devil is in all of us, it's your ability to control the beast and keep a realistic overview of proceedings that maintains your sanity. I started a long term piece of work on the psychology of human behavior and it's rather amazing what different people consider to be "the norm" and "extreme". Some snap earlier than others; one person I spoke to had been abused as a child but never felt the need to share the pain with anyone else, she was as kind and gentle as one could imagine, no anger or rage in her soul.

Tell me that you didn't feel any empathy with Mr. D. Fens.

__________________
Crash your karma into little bits of happiness
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #218  
Old 27.07.2011, 10:24
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,522
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,548 Times in 4,684 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Quote:
View Post
"Mistakenly"?
Yes I always thought it was linked to the Swiss supplying Germany with war materials & was somehow a warning? I believe a successfull warning
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 27.07.2011, 11:09
Slaphead's Avatar
Moderato espressivo
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,146
Groaned at 40 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 8,995 Times in 2,761 Posts
Slaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

People keep talking about "snapping". Sorry guy's, but as far as I can see this had nothing to do "snapping". Raoul Moat and Derek Bird are IMO examples of snapping - losing it, grabbing the first weapon that comes to hand and then going around blasting away at anything that moved.

There exists the potential within a lot of people to suddenly snap, however for the majority of us we appear to have a mental "failsafe" which kicks in and can prevent the "red mist", or should the "red mist" descend then prevents us from doing any real harm. In some other people this "failsafe" doesn't exist, or fails to kick in. The two mentioned above would IMO fit into this category. By saying this I'm not excusing the actions of those two, just pointing out that there is a difference in the motivation.

This Norwegian guy, on the other hand, planned this attack meticulously, probably for years. Consider the specialist ammunition he used designed to inflict as much damage as possible. The sourcing of the chemicals required for the bomb, and the research involved in turning those chemicals into a bomb. The fact that he surrendered rather than committing suicide, or doing "death by cop", and his comments through his solicitor is sufficient to make it very apparent to me that this was a pure premeditated act of both evil and insanity, and quite frankly has nothing to do with suddenly snapping and losing it.
__________________
...allegedly.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Slaphead for this useful post:
  #220  
Old 27.07.2011, 11:47
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,030
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,500 Times in 3,133 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Explosion in Oslo

Listened to some "legal experts" on DRS3 this morning. Got me wondering how our penal system can wield an appropriate punishment to people who slaughter innocents as opposed to clear murder cases (family dramas, revenge, love etc.).

Apparently the maximum life sentence for murder in Norway is 23 years or they could try the "crimes against humanity" ticket which could extend that to 30 years.

And therein lies the problem. I cannot accept the death penalty as part of a civilized democracy, but how do we expect our judges to sentence atrocities which aren't covered under the normal confines of the law? The law foresees punishment for crimes and the subsequent rehabilitation of the culprit. In a case such as Norway or where indiscriminate slaying occurs, how can we match the crime? We cannot. No one will want to see the Norwegian murderer released, ever, period. But his legacy will build and may well become a focal point for other idiots with extremist views, possibly even becoming an icon much like Rudolf Hess in Spandau was.

Should the prisoner be allowed to take his own life in his cell, encouraged with "useful accessories" to aid his departure? It sounds brutal, but it's not capital punishment. We are challenged to cope with the aftermath after mass slayings, be they in humanitarian courts in the Netherlands or court rooms around the world. The crimes are so dreadful that no amount of potential punishment could ever offset. We can only live in hope that sanity prevails.
__________________
Crash your karma into little bits of happiness
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
crime, norway




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Massive explosion in Cyprus kills twelve Dougal's Breakfast International affairs/politics 10 12.07.2011 01:04
Hamster explosion - WTF? Assassin Swiss politics/news 13 20.05.2011 17:45
Explosion in Vaud? Swissinfo Swiss politics/news 3 03.07.2009 17:08
Oslo vs Bergen?? Jenthefun1 General off-topic 6 01.05.2007 13:04


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0