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22.09.2011, 01:49
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| | | Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse...
Apparently, a Thomson-Tui flight from UK to Cyprus with 200 folk on board has managed to land on the taxiway instead of the runway at Paphos
Extremely fortunately, nothing else was using the taxiway at the time, but I guess there'll be quite a few serious hangovers in Paphos tomorrow morning, and understandably so . | | The following 5 users would like to thank weejeem for this useful post: | | 
22.09.2011, 07:36
| | | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse...
Yep, size does matter!
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22.09.2011, 08:22
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | Apparently, a Thomson-Tui flight from UK to Cyprus with 200 folk on board has managed to land on the taxiway instead of the runway at Paphos 
Extremely fortunately, nothing else was using the taxiway at the time, but I guess there'll be quite a few serious hangovers in Paphos tomorrow morning, and understandably so  . | | | | | Would the passengers have actually noticed anything was wrong? To be honest whenever I'm on a plane that's landing I'm just happy to see the tarmac appear in the window.
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22.09.2011, 08:31
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | Would the passengers have actually noticed anything was wrong? To be honest whenever I'm on a plane that's landing I'm just happy to see the tarmac appear in the window. | | | | | Me, too ....
Normally the quality of the tarmacked surface and the way a runway is laid down, is much more superior, and stronger than the taxiways - which are often laid down because Paddy and Murphy had a bit of asphalt left over from a job just around the corner, and could do it a bit cheaper.
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22.09.2011, 08:32
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse...
Guess that's one way of trying to save landing fees, avoid the runway.
Lifted from the Greek translation on pprune: | Quote: |  | | | Given the seriousness of the incident immediately began investigations by the pilot to admit his mistake. Indeed, according to information from the Sigma, when asked how he made such a tragic mistake, he replied: "I do not know what to say." | | | | | Flight was from Doncaster Robin Hood, conflicting reports if it was a B.737 or B.757. If the quoted pax numbers are correct, then the 737-800 is too small.
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22.09.2011, 08:39
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | Apparently, a Thomson-Tui flight from UK to Cyprus with 200 folk on board has managed to land on the taxiway instead of the runway at Paphos 
Extremely fortunately, nothing else was using the taxiway at the time, but I guess there'll be quite a few serious hangovers in Paphos tomorrow morning, and understandably so  . | | | | |
WJ, I need to scratch your head on this one...
200 passengers equates to an A320 or similiar modern largish plane.
These planes have ILS , to set up the approach at a head on angle to the runway, pretty accurate stuff.
Paphos was likely to have good clear visibility on approach.
The Taxiways are set at an angle to the runways , are narrower than the runways , have less lights than the runways , less markings than the runways.
So, WTF was the pilot looking at on his approach ?
Weren't there any bleepy flashing thingys in a pannicky female voice screaming at him in the cockpit ?
After landing, how did he turn the plane around and taxi back ?
This is a joke right ?
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22.09.2011, 08:43
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | The Taxiways are set at an angle to the runways , are narrower than the runways .... | | | | | Taxiways usually (and more normally at commercial airports), run parallel to the runway - it's the joining/exit intersections that are angled.
Runways also have great bfo numbers (to indicate direction) and arrows at the start, at both ends, which gives the runway it's "name", and this is given to the pilot with his landing instructions and clearances.
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22.09.2011, 08:46
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | Guess that's one way of trying to save landing fees, avoid the runway.
Lifted from the Greek translation on pprune:
Flight was from Doncaster Robin Hood, conflicting reports if it was a B.737 or B.757. If the quoted pax numbers are correct, then the 737-800 is too small. | | | | |
Depends if they rounded up (press usually do) or rounded down. These flights are usually crammed full due to last minute discounting and a 757 would have had a bit of spare capacity with only 200 passengers. 737-800 can squeeze more than 160 passengers normally, but the Charter Airlines reduce the seating pitch to a ridiculously low 26/38" and the TUI 737-800's can carry 189 passengers ,. with the 757's cramming 235 souls on board.
Last edited by Upthehatters2008; 22.09.2011 at 09:01.
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22.09.2011, 09:04
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse...
Things like this happen....few times a year.
Probably they didn't use the ILS, went down visual. If runway lights were OFF, it is easy to mistake the taxiway for a runway. If the lights were ON, it won't be the first time the crew forgot to take out their RayBans. | 
22.09.2011, 09:07
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | Apparently, a Thomson-Tui flight from UK to Cyprus with 200 folk on board has managed to land on the taxiway instead of the runway at Paphos 
Extremely fortunately, nothing else was using the taxiway at the time, but I guess there'll be quite a few serious hangovers in Paphos tomorrow morning, and understandably so  . | | | | | These funny English guys always with their driving on the wrong side of the road
Last edited by k_and_e; 22.09.2011 at 09:07.
Reason: typo
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22.09.2011, 09:31
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | WJ, I need to scratch your head on this one...
200 passengers equates to an A320 or similiar modern largish plane.
These planes have ILS , to set up the approach at a head on angle to the runway, pretty accurate stuff.
Paphos was likely to have good clear visibility on approach.
The Taxiways are set at an angle to the runways , are narrower than the runways , have less lights than the runways , less markings than the runways.
So, WTF was the pilot looking at on his approach ?
Weren't there any bleepy flashing thingys in a pannicky female voice screaming at him in the cockpit ?
After landing, how did he turn the plane around and taxi back ?
This is a joke right ? | | | | | In good weather, pilots will often opt to land manually or using VFR (Visual Flight Rules). It keeps their skills (sic) in check and eyes out of the window, it used to be called airmanship.
The main taxiways mostly run directly parallel with the runways and are of similar length, just significantly narrower. Lighting would not have been a factor as it was a mid-afternoon incident. At many dual use (civilian/military) airfields, the taxiways are used as emergency runways in the theoretical scenario that the main runway was bombed out of action. We do the same thing here in Switzerland.
Audible warnings will sound as you descend for landing calling out height, but not direction nor if your runway alignment is correct or otherwise. Most "Bitchin' Betty" announcements refer to terrain avoidance (Ground proximity) or other airborne traffic in the immediate vicinity (TCAS).
Landing or taking off on taxiways is nothing new, these errors have happened as long as air travel. Although more likely to occur in poor weather with reduced visibility, simple visual errors do mean that pilots mistake their chosen piece of asphalt for similar long strips of concrete or even other airports. The most infamous case of a mistakenly identified runway take off was Singapore Airlines specially colored B.747-400 which took off on a "closed for maintenance runway" which had building equipment on it at Taipei back in 2000: http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=20001031-0
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22.09.2011, 11:49
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | The main taxiways mostly run directly parallel with the runways and are of similar length, just significantly narrower. Lighting would not have been a factor as it was a mid-afternoon incident. At many dual use (civilian/military) airfields, the taxiways are used as emergency runways in the theoretical scenario that the main runway was bombed out of action. We do the same thing here in Switzerland.
Audible warnings will sound as you descend for landing calling out height, but not direction nor if your runway alignment is correct or otherwise. Most "Bitchin' Betty" announcements refer to terrain avoidance (Ground proximity) or other airborne traffic in the immediate vicinity (TCAS). | | | | | Adding to that, Paphos Taxiway 29 is actually longer than Runway 29, and the same width, being used at times as a military runway.
Only indicator is the lack of rubber skid marks, marking and lighting.
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22.09.2011, 11:57
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse...
Was a 737-800 with 192 PAX and 7 crew.
Apparently the ILS approach to runway 29 involves a slight right turn which makes aligning with the wrong strip a bit easier.
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22.09.2011, 12:11
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse...
So what happens to the pilots in this situation. I think a coach driver going the wrong way on the motorway would get a fine.
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22.09.2011, 12:14
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | So what happens to the pilots in this situation. I think a coach driver going the wrong way on the motorway would get a fine. | | | | | Possibly jail in England. Loss/Revocation of license, driving ban, massive fine. Loss of employment.
Depends on the safety factor, if lives were endangered or not.
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22.09.2011, 12:23
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse...
The AC obviously didnt have RAAS ( Runway Awareness and Advisory System (RAAS ) installed.
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22.09.2011, 12:26
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | | This user would like to thank V__ for this useful post: | | 
22.09.2011, 12:26
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | Was a 737-800 with 192 PAX and 7 crew.
Apparently the ILS approach to runway 29 involves a slight right turn which makes aligning with the wrong strip a bit easier. | | | | |
Sardines ! Wow, 192 on that plane.... That's almost standing up.
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22.09.2011, 12:34
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | Adding to that, Paphos Taxiway 29 is actually longer than Runway 29, and the same width, being used at times as a military runway.
Only indicator is the lack of rubber skid marks, marking and lighting. | | | | | Well I daresay there were some skid marks by the time they'd finished
But seriously: "Only indicator"??? I'd have thought the big, obvious indicator would come from looking at the approach plate before the approach, and subsequently expecting to see an effing great taxyway on the right-hand side of the runway, but seeing it on the lhs instead...
Crew fatigue from stupid rosters/discretionary time / delays, perhaps? | 
22.09.2011, 13:27
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| | | Re: Not the best way to start your holiday, but could have been much worse... | Quote: | |  | | | Well I daresay there were some skid marks by the time they'd finished 
But seriously: "Only indicator"??? I'd have thought the big, obvious indicator would come from looking at the approach plate before the approach, and subsequently expecting to see an effing great taxyway on the right-hand side of the runway, but seeing it on the lhs instead... 
Crew fatigue from stupid rosters/discretionary time / delays, perhaps?  | | | | | Looking at it is one thing, memorising another, and briefing it properly yet another.
I've always been taught to do the proper "this is what we should see briefing" but I am not sure how many crews do a "the taxiway is left / right" brief. Probably because usually the difference between the two is easy to tell
Quite interesting there wasn't an "oh oh - TOGA" moment when saw numbers flashing by - they were convinced what they saw was the runway. Possibly understandable, as it is longer, and the actual runway is between it and the civilian ramp, with the usual setting being the other way around.
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