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  #141  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:28
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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About "Spain was the owner of the islands from the 18th century, until Argentine independence"
So what? Even if true which I seriously doubt.
Time to hit the books, my friend.
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  #142  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:31
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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About "There is no logical reason for them to remain 'British' "

And the logical reason to give them to Argentina????
Economic efficiency? Geographic proximity?

Shall we build a 470 km pipeline, or a 10,000 km pipeline?

As a Falkland islander, will you send your daughter that requires emergency care, to London, or to Buenos Aires? Or perhaps you will build a state-of-the-art hospital for 2000 people?

Lets try to be serious, please.
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  #143  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:33
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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The legitimacy of Argentina's claim is simply economic.

I assume we all understand the concern with which the islanders have absorbed the news that they will not be able to trade with South American ports? I also assume we all understand that the concern would not be the same if the ban were from Alaskan ports.

Geography is key.
There should be no reason why the Falklands can't trade with South American counter parties without being Argentinian. You talk about economics, well, this is called trading. Countries do it all the time with each other. The port of Hamburg doesn't have to be owned by Denmark to trade with Copenhagen (a random example of trade). Why should the Falklands have to be Argentinian in order to trade with Argentina?

Absolutely no reason. The Argentinian PM is just being obstreperous.

You call it economic sense, but you fail to make economic sense of your arguments.
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  #144  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:33
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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My wife DIED of breast cancer, so I personally find it to be TOTALLY unacceptable to be used an excuse for wacko behavior from ANY politician!

Tom
I agree but I meant the lady is sick & will be undergoing treatment so is unlikely to find time to pursue the Falklands agenda for some weeks.

Truly sorry to hear about your wife; I have friends & relatives who got the big C - statistically speaking I suppose most of us will go that way since many other disorders have cures now.
I had both bowel & skin pre-cancers & am currently looking at a high psa (prostate cancer) reading; although many authorities say this may not be significant.
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  #145  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:44
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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There should be no reason why the Falklands can't trade with South American counter parties without being Argentinian. You talk about economics, well, this is called trading. Countries do it all the time with each other. The port of Hamburg doesn't have to be owned by Denmark to trade with Copenhagen (a random example of trade). Why should the Falklands have to be Argentinian in order to trade with Argentina?

Absolutely no reason. The Argentinian PM is just being obstreperous.

You call it economic sense, but you fail to make economic sense of your arguments.
Absolutely.

The problem is that colonies are typically economic parasites.

If the Falkland islands wish to do business with the region, they will have to integrate into the region, and pay taxes in the region. I believe we all agree this implies integration into Argentina.

But I'm not picky on the matter. Integration into Uruguay? Sure. But I do believe Argentina makes more sense.

If, on the other hand, the idea is to continue to serve as a proxy to the UK, they are free to continue doing business with the UK, paying taxes to the UK, and benefiting from all that being a UK colony affords them!

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.
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  #146  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:49
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Absolutely.

The problem is that colonies are typically economic parasites.

If the Falkland islands wish to do business with the region, they will have to integrate into the region, and pay taxes in the region. I believe we all agree this implies integration into Argentina.

But I'm not picky on the matter. Integration into Uruguay? Sure. But I do believe Argentina makes more sense.

If, on the other hand, the idea is to continue to serve as a proxy to the UK, they are free to continue doing business with the UK, paying taxes to the UK, and benefiting from all that being a UK colony affords them!

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.
About "If the Falkland islands wish to do business with the region, they will have to integrate into the region, and pay taxes in the region"

Please explain why e.g. pay taxes in the region?

To take your favourite example China. You think China should pay US taxes before doing business with the US (their largest customer), integrate with the US?? Your arguments have no sense or basis!
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  #147  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:51
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Time to hit the books, my friend.
You mean GB owned the islands for 400 years but Spain owned them for 20 so this a good reason for Argentina to own them!!
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  #148  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:53
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

We need to get back to economics.

Integration is not a prerequisite to trade. There is no reason for the Falklands to have to pay taxes to Argentina in order to trade (exc. the normal customs).

The Falklands should be able to trade with Argentina if they wish, without having to integrate into some fiscal union...

I doubt that the Falklanders would want to pay taxes to a country that once attempted an invasion anyway. It doesn't send the best message to the inhabitants. In the meantime, the islanders shall be afforded British protection, as the Brits they are, so that they may continue to live their lives and go about their business in peace.

The islands are, as you say, after all, just some rocks in the South Atlantic, no reason for Argentina to get all hot and bothered about.
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  #149  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:54
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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A people with no political rights can hardly claim to be any more "British", than an 18th century American, an early 20th century Indian, or late 20th century Hong Konger. The statement just doesn't cut the mustard.

Colonial subjects? Sure. British? Not so much.

The legitimacy of Argentina's claim is simply economic.

I assume we all understand the concern with which the islanders have absorbed the news that they will not be able to trade with South American ports? I also assume we all understand that the concern would not be the same if the ban were from Alaskan ports.

Geography is key.
About "The legitimacy of Argentina's claim is simply economic. "
Again please explain about "simply economic"

About "A people with no political rights"
Why do they have "no political rights" - please explain.
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  #150  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:56
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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About "If the Falkland islands wish to do business with the region, they will have to integrate into the region, and pay taxes in the region"

Please explain why e.g. pay taxes in the region?

To take your favourite example China. You think China should pay US taxes before doing business with the US (their largest customer), integrate with the US?? Your arguments have no sense or basis!
Following my arguments, the UK joined the European Union, and not, say, ASEAN. Or NAFTA. Following yours, perhaps they should join the African Union. Or an Antarctic union. Or something.

I'm not getting it.

Proximity = economic efficiency. Is this equation clear, or do we really have to explain it?

The US's largest trading partner is Canada.

Coincidence? I think not.
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  #151  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:59
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

Your grasp of economics is dubious if you believe fiscal integration is a prerequisite to trade.


Trade between Argentina and the Falklands would benefit both parties without the need for integration.
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  #152  
Old 30.12.2011, 01:01
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Economic efficiency? Geographic proximity?

Shall we build a 470 km pipeline, or a 10,000 km pipeline?

As a Falkland islander, will you send your daughter that requires emergency care, to London, or to Buenos Aires? Or perhaps you will build a state-of-the-art hospital for 2000 people?

Lets try to be serious, please.
More blah blah

About "Shall we build a 470 km pipeline, or a 10,000 km pipeline?"
Same as everywhere else, build a 1km pipeline to a tanker filling jetty.

About "As a Falkland islander, will you send your daughter that requires emergency care, to London, or to Buenos Aires?"
Same as everywhere - send the patient to the nearest hospital with good facilities; for example, are you proposing the countries that send patients to Swiss hospitals try to take over Switzerland?
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  #153  
Old 30.12.2011, 01:02
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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You mean GB owned the islands for 400 years but Spain owned them for 20 so this a good reason for Argentina to own them!!
The UK have owned the Falklands since 1833.

Period. Fullstop.

They did not have the capacity, or the interest, to maintain a garrison and population center in that part of the world before then.

They tried to take La Plata twice before that, in 1806 and 1807. Were soundly defeated both times by the Spanish, and decided it would be easier to occupy the rocks off the continent we now call the Falklands/Malvinas, than gain a foothold on the continent.

The encyclopedia of your choice is your friend.
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  #154  
Old 30.12.2011, 01:03
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Following my arguments, the UK joined the European Union, and not, say, ASEAN. Or NAFTA. Following yours, perhaps they should join the African Union. Or an Antarctic union. Or something.

I'm not getting it.

Proximity = economic efficiency. Is this equation clear, or do we really have to explain it?

The US's largest trading partner is Canada.

Coincidence? I think not.
About "The US's largest trading partner is Canada"
& next on the list & getting closer is China.
Do I have to explain this?
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  #155  
Old 30.12.2011, 01:05
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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The UK have owned the Falklands since 1833.

Period. Fullstop.

They did not have the capacity, or the interest, to maintain a garrison and population center in that part of the world before then.

They tried to take La Plata twice before that, in 1806 and 1807. Were soundly defeated both times by the Spanish, and decided it would be easier to occupy the rocks off the continent we now call the Falklands/Malvinas, than gain a foothold on the continent.

The encyclopedia of your choice is your friend.
about "The UK have owned the Falklands since 1833."

Actually 1690 but let us not allow facts to spoil the argument
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  #156  
Old 30.12.2011, 01:06
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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More blah blah

About "Shall we build a 470 km pipeline, or a 10,000 km pipeline?"
Same as everywhere else, build a 1km pipeline to a tanker filling jetty.

About "As a Falkland islander, will you send your daughter that requires emergency care, to London, or to Buenos Aires?"
Same as everywhere - send the patient to the nearest hospital with good facilities; for example, are you proposing the countries that send patients to Swiss hospitals try to take over Switzerland?
In that case, I suggest the UK build proper facilities for its "British" citizens in the Falkland isles.

Quit leeching of the neighbors.

I'm not aware of any country leeching off of Switzerland's health care system.

Always willing to learn though.
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  #157  
Old 30.12.2011, 01:07
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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In that case, I suggest the UK build proper facilities for its "British" citizens in the Falkland isles.

Quit leeching of the neighbors.

I'm not aware of any country leeching off of Switzerland's health care system.

Always willing to learn though.
OK, you have the honour of being the first person added to my ignore list
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  #158  
Old 30.12.2011, 01:08
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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About "The US's largest trading partner is Canada"
& next on the list & getting closer is China.
Do I have to explain this?
With 30 times the population, yes.

I'm afraid the Falklands does not enjoy this advantage.
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  #159  
Old 30.12.2011, 01:11
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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about "The UK have owned the Falklands since 1833."

Actually 1690 but let us not allow facts to spoil the argument
This is absolutely astounding, considering Port Stanley was founded in 1843.

Pointing at the island from 20 miles does not constitute ownership.
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  #160  
Old 30.12.2011, 07:58
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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With 30 times the population, yes.

I'm afraid the Falklands does not enjoy this advantage.
So now you are saying because they do not have a high enough population they have no right to decide who they trade with and must be buillied by Argentina, your grasp of both politics and economics is highly flawed
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