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14.10.2007, 10:55
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| | | Kosovo
I think this is a good topic to discuss since many Serbs and Albanians live in Switzerland. What is your take on the enitre situation and possible independence being granted to Kosovo's Albanians?
I have been doing some reading and
1) Kosovo was and continues to belong to Serbia,
2) There are very strong religious roots/ties the Serbs and their Christian Orthodox faith has in Kosovo,
3) Albaninans seek independence because around 90% of the population in Kosovo is Albanian. They feel they do not have anything in common with the Serbs (Muslim Albanian religion vs Christian Orthodox being a key factor) However, before the 1990's Kosovo's Albanians made up cca. 50% of the provinces population. Factors contirbuting to an increase include: Serbs being forced out from their homeland because of a war started by terrorist Albanian guerrilas fighting for independence, and a high Albanian birth rate in the past 15+ years.
Taking these factors into account, I don't think the Albanians deserve their own state. How can one, living on historical Serbian soil and territory, claim independence and receive support from the international community, just because now the Albanians make up 90% of Kosovos population?
If an independent state is granted based on this factor, then other countries may follow. For example, and I am not saying it wil happen, but Southern California has a high Hispanic population, which keeps increasing. Would the US and international community allow an independent state to be formed in Southern California if the Hispanic population decided one day to form a "Hispanic" state?
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14.10.2007, 11:08
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| | | Re: Kosovo
Well, perhaps if the US government had been trying to ethnically cleanse Southern California and the UN decided the populace there needed protection then your example might be valid. Initially, Kosovo might have been very much Serbian in population and religion, but has not been for some time. The same argument applies to other places around the globe - populations move. You could equally claim that most of Mediterranean Europe has people who were orginially roman and that they still have the same religion nowadays, so Spain, Portugal, etc, should be part of Italy.
Problem is, I suppose is that it may not be possible to secure Kosovan's safety if at some point in the future a government is formed in Serbia that acts the same as the previous administration. If Kosovo was still part of serbia, it would be very difficult for the UN to do anything about it, but if it was an independent nation, then it's much easier for the UN to swing into action. You only have to look at Darfur to see how reluctant the UN is to do anything about a problem that exists inside of a country's own borders.
__________________ New book out now: European Bird Names: A Translation Guide. www.tonykeenebirds,co,uk - photos, paintings and drawings of Swiss, Australian, NZ and British birds | 
25.10.2007, 23:49
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| | | Re: Kosovo | Quote: |  | | | How can one, living on historical Serbian soil and territory, claim independence and receive support from the international community, just because now the Albanians make up 90% of Kosovos population? | | | | | Surely, the Serbs will have to change to accomodate the Albanians? Or else transport in masses of Serbs. 90% Albanian  ruled by Serbs?
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28.10.2007, 07:05
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| | | Re: Kosovo | Quote: | |  | | | I think this is a good topic to discuss since many Serbs and Albanians live in Switzerland. What is your take on the enitre situation and possible independence being granted to Kosovo's Albanians?
I have been doing some reading and 1) Kosovo was and continues to belong to Serbia,
2) There are very strong religious roots/ties the Serbs and their Christian Orthodox faith has in Kosovo,
3) Albaninans seek independence because around 90% of the population in Kosovo is Albanian. They feel they do not have anything in common with the Serbs (Muslim Albanian religion vs Christian Orthodox being a key factor) However, before the 1990's Kosovo's Albanians made up cca. 50% of the provinces population. Factors contirbuting to an increase include: Serbs being forced out from their homeland because of a war started by terrorist Albanian guerrilas fighting for independence, and a high Albanian birth rate in the past 15+ years.
Taking these factors into account, I don't think the Albanians deserve their own state. How can one, living on historical Serbian soil and territory, claim independence and receive support from the international community, just because now the Albanians make up 90% of Kosovos population? | | | | | Nice to see that you have really done your research on the history & formation of Kosovo
Can't wait to see what you troll up next to try & gain a reaction .... | 
07.12.2007, 09:05
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| | | Re: Kosovo
This is a HUGE slippery slope. Europe will be well advised to steer clear. The implications are that a LOCAL majority can simply secede is ridiculous.
So what, in 20 years, Turkish inhabitants of Berlin can vote to form their own country New Turkistan because they do not "feel German"?????
This is a HUGE Pandora's box that should be left alone. If the Albanians don't like living in Serbia, they are very welcome to move to Albania... a country of Albanians.
On top of that, the precedent that a group of countries is imposing territorial concessions on another sovereign state that they are not even in a state of war with.
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07.12.2007, 14:18
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| | | Re: Kosovo
I wonder who out of Slobodan Milosevic and George Bush is/was a bigger war criminal?  What is funny is that Americans re-elected him | 
07.12.2007, 14:39
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| | | Re: Kosovo | Quote: | |  | | | I think this is a good topic to discuss since many Serbs and Albanians live in Switzerland. What is your take on the enitre situation and possible independence being granted to Kosovo's Albanians?
I have been doing some reading and
1) Kosovo was and continues to belong to Serbia,
2) There are very strong religious roots/ties the Serbs and their Christian Orthodox faith has in Kosovo,
3) Albaninans seek independence because around 90% of the population in Kosovo is Albanian. They feel they do not have anything in common with the Serbs (Muslim Albanian religion vs Christian Orthodox being a key factor) However, before the 1990's Kosovo's Albanians made up cca. 50% of the provinces population. Factors contirbuting to an increase include: Serbs being forced out from their homeland because of a war started by terrorist Albanian guerrilas fighting for independence, and a high Albanian birth rate in the past 15+ years.
Taking these factors into account, I don't think the Albanians deserve their own state. How can one, living on historical Serbian soil and territory, claim independence and receive support from the international community, just because now the Albanians make up 90% of Kosovos population?
If an independent state is granted based on this factor, then other countries may follow. For example, and I am not saying it wil happen, but Southern California has a high Hispanic population, which keeps increasing. Would the US and international community allow an independent state to be formed in Southern California if the Hispanic population decided one day to form a "Hispanic" state? | | | | |
Part of this third point is quite wrong. Half of the population of Kosovo were Serbs 1900 and not 1990. If not know, but oppression of the Albanian majority in Kosovo started already in the 1980s. Official use of Albanian language was banned, schools in Albanian language were closed, Albanians fired from all public offices.
Situation reach its peak in mid 1990 when Milosevic regime started mass prosecutions of Albanians. Peak was reached 1999 when Nato bombarded Serbia and forced their army out of Kosovo.
It is true that Kosovo was always part of Serbia, but if Kosovo gets independence, it is Serbia's own fault. When Albanians were asking for autonomy in 1980 and early 1990, Milosevic refused any negotiations. Now when they realised that they going to loose Kosovo, they are offering autonomy, but it is too late.
Everyone know what Milosevic started in other Balkan countries, so why should 90% of population of Kosovo allow that something similar happens to them in the future.
It is true that Serbians people are leaving Kosovo becuase of fear (with reason), but where were they in 1980's and before 1999 when Milosevic regime created apartheid regime in Kosovo. No Serbs protested agains Milosevic in Kosovo and what he was doing.
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07.12.2007, 14:43
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| | | Re: Kosovo | Quote: | |  | | | This is a HUGE slippery slope. Europe will be well advised to steer clear. The implications are that a LOCAL majority can simply secede is ridiculous.
So what, in 20 years, Turkish inhabitants of Berlin can vote to form their own country New Turkistan because they do not "feel German"?????
This is a HUGE Pandora's box that should be left alone. If the Albanians don't like living in Serbia, they are very welcome to move to Albania... a country of Albanians.
On top of that, the precedent that a group of countries is imposing territorial concessions on another sovereign state that they are not even in a state of war with. | | | | |
I guess all people from Québec should move back to France if they don't like living in Canada. Most of them came from France anyway 300 years ago. Albanians have been in Kosovo much longer than any white American or Canadian on the American continent.
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07.12.2007, 15:14
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| | | Re: Kosovo | Quote: | |  | | | So what, in 20 years, Turkish inhabitants of Berlin can vote to form their own country New Turkistan because they do not "feel German"????? | | | | | No, but possibly in 500 years which is how long the Albanians have been living in Kosovo with the Serbs. Strangley enough, most of that time under Turkish rule, not Serbian.
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07.12.2007, 15:41
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| | | Re: Kosovo
Actually, if you check history books Albanians on the Balkan are something of the "natives". Serbs, Bulgarians, Croats and other belong to slavic group, while albanians are closer to IIIyrian speaking group that once in a time inhabitated Balkan peninsula. So we could actually treat Albanians are "natives" in these regions. Of course if they lived in Kosovo or only in today's Albania, as they do today is not sure, but on the Balkans, Albanians were there before any other slavic groups.
I am explaining this, because some people here think that Albanians come to Kosovo as immigrants or refugees long time ago. In my opinion that is why this conflict started. In the 1980 Albanians on Kosovo were regarded as a ethnic minority on the territory where they lived for centuries.
And comments like that all Albanians should live in Albania is quite stupid. If you take Balkan region, in all countries live several ethnic groups.
According to Canadian dude's rule: all Serbs and Croats from Bosnia should live in Serbia and Croatia, despite that they lived there for centuries and are not ethnic minority and Bosnian territory was never in history neither part of the Serbia or Croatia (except during II world war). Applying same rule would mean that all protestants or catolics from Northern Ireland should move either to England or Irland to make space for the other. But world is not simple like that. Just because some ethnic group is smaller in numbers does not mean they don't have right to live there.
In Kosovo case, if Milosevic played his cards right 10 years ago, neither world or USA would allow Kosovo to become independent. But, unfortunatelly he had a full support of Serbian people in the early 1990 to do what he did, and now Serbia and Serbians are paying for that support. O
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