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  #61  
Old 18.01.2012, 10:29
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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what I don't understand is how you can go sailing in tuscany with a british chart.
Because Britannia rules the waves (or used to....)
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Old 18.01.2012, 10:31
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

I once worked for a brief time on an Italian cruise ship. One of the things I found rather odd was that the first time we had any Lifeboat drill was 5 days after leaving shore when we reached a small island.

As each life-boat was in the charge of a crew member, and each of these crew members had to "find" their station and then their boat, and then learn how to board the people, and then how to operate it (some of the boats had to be lowered by rope - evenly, lest people toppled out!)

I shudder to think what it would have been like if a disaster had occurred before we got some practice!

Another thought here ........ what is the use of having the life-belts stored in the cabins? On big cruise ships the cabins are far distant and not easy to find, especially in a panic situation.
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Old 18.01.2012, 10:54
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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Because Britannia rules the waves (or used to....)
yeah, and we italians used to be "a people of saints and navigators"...
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  #64  
Old 18.01.2012, 14:33
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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So The Local will post the breaking news sometime tomorrow, right?
Damn, did I miss it?
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  #65  
Old 18.01.2012, 15:26
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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ha ha, you'd bet Lloyds are now sending out their best people to make sure they don't have to pay insurance, good luck with that
The excellent reputation of Lloyd's, that makes it one of the world's leading insurance markets, is founded upon the fact that is has always striven to faithfully pay every valid insurance claim, rather than try to argue their way out of it. And if the unlucky passengers and their families ever receive compensation (which I certainly hope they do) it will most likely be the insurers that bear the brunt of expense.
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Old 18.01.2012, 15:30
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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That's quite an insult to all the captains through history that have stayed with their ships until all their passengers and crew have disembarked.
The notion of "the captain going down with the ship" also comes from the early days of shipping, when rich merchants funded ships sent out on trading missions around the world - in these times the captain was held responsible for the ship and would be liable for any damage or loss. Since most ship captains could not afford to the cost of an entire ship they often chose to "go down" with the sinking vessel as an alternative to being bankrupted and ending up in prison/the poor house.
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Old 18.01.2012, 15:38
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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The notion of "the captain going down with the ship" also comes from the early days of shipping, when rich merchants funded ships sent out on trading missions around the world - in these times the captain was held responsible for the ship and would be liable for any damage or loss. Since most ship captains could not afford to the cost of an entire ship they often chose to "go down" with the sinking vessel as an alternative to being bankrupted and ending up in prison/the poor house.
Very true. If the captain died with his ship, it did not always reflect badly on himself or his family; he had satisfied his honorable duty. If a captain returned without his ship, he would be held responsible for the loss, and the costs and consequences would be carried on from himself to his children, which was a very real concern for many at this time.
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  #68  
Old 18.01.2012, 15:57
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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The notion of "the captain going down with the ship" also comes from the early days of shipping, when rich merchants funded ships sent out on trading missions around the world - in these times the captain was held responsible for the ship and would be liable for any damage or loss. Since most ship captains could not afford to the cost of an entire ship they often chose to "go down" with the sinking vessel as an alternative to being bankrupted and ending up in prison/the poor house.
Maybe, but even today it's not a matter of just staying in the ship while it's sinking but rather stay there to make sure all the passengers are evacuated and provide assistance in this process. If you have ever been inside this ships you will be amazed of how large they are and how quickly you can loose yourself. I actually worked in Fincantieri Genova while the Concordia and the Serena were built, spending every day inside out these ships.

The crew was supposed to help the passengers evacuate. Most of them did but the captain and his first officer spent more than 1 hour watching the evacuation from the carabinieri boat doing nothing. Even when the captain office of the Livorno Port orders him to back and asses the situation so they know how to coordinate the SAR he fails and refuses to go giving lame excuses. It's obvious he failed doing his basic duties providing safe evacuation of the passengers.
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  #69  
Old 18.01.2012, 15:58
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

Although now the captain claims to have tripped and fallen into a lifeboat.
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Old 18.01.2012, 16:00
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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Although now the captain claims to have tripped and fallen into a lifeboat.

those pesky lifeboats getting in the way
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Old 18.01.2012, 16:14
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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The excellent reputation of Lloyd's, that makes it one of the world's leading insurance markets, is founded upon the fact that is has always striven to faithfully pay every valid insurance claim, rather than try to argue their way out of it. And if the unlucky passengers and their families ever receive compensation (which I certainly hope they do) it will most likely be the insurers that bear the brunt of expense.
indeed, my second sentence you omitted from your quote of my remark welcomes the insurance's contribution to truth-finding process. as an additional party with their own economic interests and point of view to defend they will be able to provide valuable input.

I am indifferent to the "excellent reputation" of Lloyds, the facts will speak for themselves. I was not commenting on that but on their important role as a "third party".

although, come to think of it... shouldn't they, too, have kept a better eye on the acrobatic habits of their insured captains?!
a look at the AIS monitoring system now and then would have been enough (same applies to the coastal guard and to costa itself, of course)
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  #72  
Old 18.01.2012, 19:22
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

The second conversation between De Falco (Port of Livorno) and the captain



Even 2 and a half hours after the collision the captain together with the first officer are watching the evacuation from the carabinieri boat and have no idea how many people are left on the boat. They say "around hundred..." The Livorno Port asks why they have left the ship and why all the commanding crew is "warming up" on the carabinieri boat instead of coordinating the evacuation inside the ship he replies that the ship is inclined and they fell in the water. The Livorno Port doesn't believe this, they reply we will see about this later, don't move from that boat and stay in front of the ship!
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  #73  
Old 18.01.2012, 19:30
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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Although now the captain claims to have tripped and fallen into a lifeboat.
I love it! Like a friend's girlfriend, who told the doctor she accidentally sat on a beer bottle. .
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  #74  
Old 18.01.2012, 20:17
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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The second conversation between De Falco (Port of Livorno) and the captain



Even 2 and a half hours after the collision the captain together with the first officer are watching the evacuation from the carabinieri boat and have no idea how many people are left on the boat. They say "around hundred..." The Livorno Port asks why they have left the ship and why all the commanding crew is "warming up" on the carabinieri boat instead of coordinating the evacuation inside the ship he replies that the ship is inclined and they fell in the water. The Livorno Port doesn't believe this, they reply we will see about this later, don't move from that boat and stay in front of the ship!
Another day, another translation...
Schettino: Hello?
De Falco: Captain, this is [harbourmaster] De Falco from Livorno
Schettino: Yes, well, I've called the company, too, er... they've told me there are passengers on board, there seem to be around one hundred people, but I repeat, ...
De Falco: Captain, can't you give me precise figures... "it seems that there are around one hundred"?
Schettino: Well, commandante,I can't give you precise figures, because - I'll explain to you, we're still evacuating the remaining passengers, now I've convened all officers in the lifeboat, and...
De Falco: Where are you? All officers are on the liefeboat?!
Schettino: Yes, we're all here, me, the first officer, the...
De Falco: Excuse me? Earlier it was just you and a sailor. If the officers could get off the ship, that means you can still move [lifeboats out].
Schettino: That's right. Now,...
De Falco: So why don't you go back on board to see what the situation is and then report back to us?
Schettino: It's not possible now.
De Falco: Send them back on board. Send someone back on board to co-ordinate.
Schettino: But I am co-ordinating.
De Falco: I've just given you an order, Captain. You must send someone back on board
Schettino: We're going back on board to co-ordinate, because...
De Falco: Quite right! You have to back on board to co-ordinate the disembarkment. Is that clear?
Schettino: But we can't go back up now, the way the ship...
De Falco: What are you saying? Why did you make them climb down then?
Schettino: What do you mean "make them climb down"? We've left the ship and the ship is listing...
De Falco: And with 100 people still aboard you leave the ship? F***!
Schettino: I didn't leave no ship with 100 people, the ship veered suddenly and we've been flung into the waters
De Falco: We'll see later what really happened, OK? Now however you'll tell me what's happening, you'll take that lifeboat to the bow [of the Concordia] and don't leave from there, is that clear?
Schettino: We're there, commandante, we're there.
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  #75  
Old 18.01.2012, 20:49
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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Although now the captain claims to have tripped and fallen into a lifeboat.
We need a 'laugh' button on this forum.
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Old 20.01.2012, 16:52
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

In one of a more-marine-dedicated-forum I found a reconstruction of Costa Concordia trajectory.



It seems that first she hit a rock near La Scole island (I saw even a picture somewhere with a rock in the ship! daily mirror it was probabaly), then engines went off and then she was moving thanks to inertia. After she stopped the north-east wind start the drifting process.



PS. SOG is speed over ground.
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Old 21.01.2012, 02:35
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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---
The ship was dead, modern ships are diesel-electric, the power is supplied by diesel engines, they cut off automatically as soon as the list gets over a certain degree and although there is a bit of a UPS battery back-up it is not designed to run the ship for long. Without power the captain has no control over anything and on a 200-odd meter long ship a megaphone is not much use.
--
As soon as water gets in and floods the hull the ship will tend to roll over and not settle.
.
To have been on some ferry-boats in the French-English Channel does not make me an "expert". And so, two questions :

I heard about the electrical failure first but then also that there was no such failure.
WAS there an electrical failure ? or was there NO such thing ?

I often when seeing either photos of such big cruise ships or even seeing them "life" have the impression that they are too high. Does your remark mean that they as a result of this are prone to roll over ?

PLUS. A third and possibly strange question. Was the luggage of the passengers out there recovered or have they, while surviving, lost all the personal stuff they had on board ? I mean, I do NOT regard travelling as a survival-training-exercise and would not be content just to have survived.
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Old 21.01.2012, 03:02
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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The second conversation between De Falco (Port of Livorno) and the captain



Even 2 and a half hours after the collision the captain together with the first officer are watching the evacuation from the carabinieri boat and have no idea how many people are left on the boat. They say "around hundred..." The Livorno Port asks why they have left the ship and why all the commanding crew is "warming up" on the carabinieri boat instead of coordinating the evacuation inside the ship he replies that the ship is inclined and they fell in the water. The Livorno Port doesn't believe this, they reply we will see about this later, don't move from that boat and stay in front of the ship!
This Mr De Falco of course is the CEO (Commandante) of the seaport of Livorno, but "commandante" apparently also is the title of the chief of an Italian warship.
Is this seaport-Commandante a former warship-commander ? Something of the "tonality" sounds a bit militaristic.
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Old 21.01.2012, 10:16
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

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This Mr De Falco of course is the CEO (Commandante) of the seaport of Livorno, but "commandante" apparently also is the title of the chief of an Italian warship.
Is this seaport-Commandante a former warship-commander ? Something of the "tonality" sounds a bit militaristic.
The Italian coastguard (guarda costiera) is part of the Italian Navy. They are responsible for the "capitaneria" (harbour master) service in major Italian ports. As such, they are responsible for navigational safety, respect of port laws, protection of the environment and so on. This is completely separate from the commercial operation of a port (which may have a CEO or some other civilian director).

All Coast Guard Navy personel therefore have a Navy rank. De Falco's formal rank is that of "capitano de fregata" (frigate captain, NATO Code OF-4, or the UK equivalent of "Commander" in the RN or "Lt Col" in the Army). His rank insignia are clearly visible on the pictures of him arriving at the Grosseto court handling the criminal case against Schettino.

The harbour master, as well as the officer actually commanding a ship, are adressed as "commandante", irrespective of their rank, which is why De Falco also calls Schettino "commandante".
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Old 21.01.2012, 11:36
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Re: Costa Concordia cruise ship runs aground

There appears to be a lot of focus on the italians in this thread placing the blame on them. While the captain etc may be italian if people take a close look.

The Costa Concordia is owned by Costa Crusies which is an american company, then to add to the insult an american legal firm is now putting together class action against the company. What ever happened to common courtesy the company should be let to focus on completing the rescue effort and the lawyers should grow up.

Last edited by Wallabies; 21.01.2012 at 11:54.
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