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  #61  
Old 28.09.2012, 13:35
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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Don't forget there were British people who blew up other British people in London on 07/07. The followers in Finsbury Park influenced by Abu Hamza and his ilk were British. Where do we go from here?
Same place as bin la ahhh never mind
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  #62  
Old 28.09.2012, 14:38
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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Don't forget there were British people who blew up other British people in London on 07/07. The followers in Finsbury Park influenced by Abu Hamza and his ilk were British. Where do we go from here?
I think we should take a hardline approach to accepting the religion of others and make them integrate properly or send them to a country in the middle east.

They may have been British but they were not of British descent
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  #63  
Old 28.09.2012, 14:49
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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Don't forget there were British people who blew up other British people in London on 07/07. The followers in Finsbury Park influenced by Abu Hamza and his ilk were British. Where do we go from here?
You are correct but if you take away the common denominator which is "Abu Hamza and his ilk" and completely stop the likes of him getting into the country then this will reduce the chance of them having followers.

We are talking about a very small minority here who are having a very big 'influence'. I have a couple of Muslim friends and they absolutely detest these people, they believe they bring shame on the Muslim religion and would love to see them deported.

The majority no matter what religion or colour live happily together in the UK, its the minority that needs stopped and by giving this minority the same human rights as you and I it gives them the freedom to 'spread their muck'.

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  #64  
Old 28.09.2012, 15:05
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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I think we should take a hardline approach to accepting the religion of others
I think the only way 'we' could achieve that is to make all religions equally untolerated. Let's start by banning all churches, burning bibles/korans/torahs/whatever and outlawing any visible display that could be associated with religion. So no crosses, no headscarves, no skullcaps, no turbans, no veils. Then we need to address personal appearance as well, so lets shave off all long beards, cut off jewish curls and sew back foreskins.

OK, so mebbe not, but my point is this: all religions are wrong, so why should we be more or less tolerant of the ones that are closer or more alien to our own cultural attitudes?
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  #65  
Old 28.09.2012, 15:10
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

In the UK Christians have no right to wear a cross at work whereas other religious symbols have not been treated this way, I find it quite deplorable

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...overnment.html
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  #66  
Old 28.09.2012, 15:12
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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why should we be more or less tolerant of the ones that are closer or more alien to our own cultural attitudes?
It's not being closer or more alien, it's being compatible (or not) to our concepts of justice, freedom, democracy etc. The majority of Muslims don't have a problem with that and seek to fit in rather than confront and pervert the freedoms they enjoy. But the small minority that don't get it deserve what's coming to them. If a Christian group staretd bombing people, that would be equally inaccepatble. Remember the IRA?
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  #67  
Old 28.09.2012, 15:16
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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I think the only way 'we' could achieve that is to make all religions equally untolerated. Let's start by banning all churches, burning bibles/korans/torahs/whatever and outlawing any visible display that could be associated with religion. So no crosses, no headscarves, no skullcaps, no turbans, no veils. ...
Mr Joe Stalin already tried that. It didn't work.

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OK, so mebbe not, but my point is this: all religions are wrong, so why should we be more or less tolerant of the ones that are closer or more alien to our own cultural attitudes?
Politics? Power? The government wants the majority to feel that they are doing fine. It doesn't want an uprising.
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  #68  
Old 28.09.2012, 15:19
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

I suppose you think all the aspects of Sharia Law are fine as well Ace1?

"Don't worry officer it's fine for me to beat my wife as I am allowed to, it doesn't matter what the law of the country states"
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  #69  
Old 28.09.2012, 15:51
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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I suppose you think all the aspects of Sharia Law are fine as well Ace1?
Eh? I've no idea at all where you would get such an idea from. Certainly not from anything I've ever posted here.

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"Don't worry officer it's fine for me to beat my wife as I am allowed to, it doesn't matter what the law of the country states"
As above. It would seem like you're reading something completely different from any words I've written.

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In the UK Christians have no right to wear a cross at work whereas other religious symbols have not been treated this way, I find it quite deplorable

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...overnment.html
Looks like you can't read news pages either. Or did you not actually look beyond the headline?
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  #70  
Old 28.09.2012, 15:59
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

I guess I was reading between the lines whereas you groaned at my post, the fact is why should there be tolerance at all to a religion that isn't native to a country especially when it contradicts the laws of that country.
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  #71  
Old 28.09.2012, 16:19
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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I guess I was reading between the lines whereas you groaned at my post, the fact is why should there be tolerance at all to a religion that isn't native to a country especially when it contradicts the laws of that country.
Tolerance to all men is a fairly basic Christian concept, so the groan was for the hypocrisy you're displaying by nailing your colours to the mast of one religion and suggesting that 'we' should not tolerate any others. Either you accept freedom of religion, and the expression thereof, which means allowing muslims, jews, hindus and whoever else to worship and show allegiance to their beliefs in whatever way they want, or you have to deny any sort of religious expression.

As for any religion being 'native to a country', you're on _very_ thin ice there. What defines a 'country' but its people? If you're suggesting that anyone who's not a Christian, indeed not a member of the Church of England, should not be allowed to express their beliefs you really need to take a long hard look at some history books. All else apart, that's exactly the sort of argument used to impose Sharia law on Christian minorities in some Muslim countries - do you support the oppression of such groups?
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  #72  
Old 28.09.2012, 16:35
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

Yes that would be tolerance to a religion that contradicts the laws of a country, I don't see Jews or Hindu's being given preference in the UK or for that matter Christians.

Or spreading hatred and influencing future generations to take up arms in the name of their god(s). These people as the reason the BNP and EDL are gaining in popularity.
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  #73  
Old 01.10.2012, 17:11
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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These people as the reason the BNP and EDL are gaining in popularity.
Are they gaining in popularity?

The last I heard was that both were in terminal decline, with the BNP losing lots of its previous council seats and struggling with financial difficulties and the EDL more concerned with infighting than concentrating on their claimed mission. It could be I'm misinformed of course.
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  #74  
Old 01.10.2012, 17:29
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

Very true in some respects but they support is actually growing, hard to believe I know but there are a growing number people who agree with a lot of their views. People claim they're not racist but when you bring up immigration and Muslims it stirs things up a fair bit and people will generally speak their minds on the subject more so now than ever before. I've been quite shocked by things that friends have said.
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  #75  
Old 01.10.2012, 21:46
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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Are they gaining in popularity?

The last I heard was that both were in terminal decline, with the BNP losing lots of its previous council seats and struggling with financial difficulties and the EDL more concerned with infighting than concentrating on their claimed mission. It could be I'm misinformed of course.
Pretty sure you're not.

DM readers and the like are always ready to believe and repost the sort of racist nonsense seen here, but it's by no means reflected by the population as a whole.
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  #76  
Old 02.10.2012, 10:57
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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Very true in some respects but they support is actually growing, hard to believe I know but there are a growing number people who agree with a lot of their views. People claim they're not racist but when you bring up immigration and Muslims it stirs things up a fair bit and people will generally speak their minds on the subject more so now than ever before. I've been quite shocked by things that friends have said.
Yes, I've experienced quite a few pub situations myself where a few drinks can lower one's guard and loosen one's tongue. However, discomfort and frustration at some of the things that are happening is quite understandable, as is a certain degree of cynical backlash against the exaggerated and almost dracoinian degree of political correctness that seems to have pervaded almost all levels of authority in recent times. But to equate that with downright hardline racism is to totally misread the situation.

The same crowd in the pub will also rail against the Scots or the French or the Germans or whoever are the bad guys of the month if half a situation arises. But if a person of said nationailty was in trouble I'm sure they'd also be the first to go out and help.
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  #77  
Old 02.10.2012, 12:09
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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Yes that would be tolerance to a religion that contradicts the laws of a country, I don't see Jews or Hindu's being given preference in the UK or for that matter Christians.

Or spreading hatred and influencing future generations to take up arms in the name of their god(s). These people as the reason the BNP and EDL are gaining in popularity.
The BNP, EDL, SDL etc are pretty much clueless thugs and will never gain popularity. They are not as low as the scum were are talking about in the thread but they are still scum.

They may have some 'agreeable' policies to many British people who are sick and tired of the way Britain is being 'overrun' but that's as far as it goes.
The bottom line is they are thugs, not politicians.
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Old 02.10.2012, 12:21
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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The BNP, EDL, SDL etc are pretty much clueless thugs and will never gain popularity. They are not as low as the scum were are talking about in the thread but they are still scum.

They may have some 'agreeable' policies to many British people who are sick and tired of the way Britain is being 'overrun' but that's as far as it goes.
The bottom line is that they are thugs, not politicians.
True, but the support they do get shows there is potential there. All it takes is somebody to set up a party catering to those who are "sick and tired of Britain being overrun" but doing away with the thuggishness and the conspiracy theories etc that make the BNP unelectable and instead replacing it by somebody like Jörg Haider or Pim Fortuin who knows how to plays the media rather than letting them play him. That party would be a success overnight. In a way people like the BNP have occupied that seeding vacuum and so prevented that from happening, but a collapse of the BNP could open the way for such a party to emerge. Such a party could get quite ugly. So don't rejoyce too soon over the troubles of the BNP and EDL.
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  #79  
Old 02.10.2012, 12:34
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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True, but the support they do get shows there is potential there. All it takes is somebody to set up a party catering to those who are "sick and tired of Britain being overrun" but doing away with the thuggishness and the conspiracy theories etc that make the BNP unelectable and instead replacing it by somebody like Jörg Haider or Pim Fortuin who knows how to plays the media rather than letting them play him. That party would be a success overnight. In a way people like the BNP have occupied that seeding vacuum and so prevented that from happening, but a collapse of the BNP could open the way for such a party to emerge. Such a party could get quite ugly. So don't rejoyce too soon over the troubles of the BNP and EDL.
Agree, a party like this would become very very popular with people of Britain. Unfortunately we do not have any politicians who will put themselves forward for this and say what the British public really think. All we have is politicians who will bend over and get shafted from the PC and human rights brigade.
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Old 04.10.2012, 12:57
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Re: Man held for nearly 8 years without trial, to be extradited to USA

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Agree, a party like this would become very very popular with people of Britain. Unfortunately we do not have any politicians who will put themselves forward for this and say what the British public really think. All we have is politicians who will bend over and get shafted from the PC and human rights brigade.
One moment you're saying the far right are thugs, next you suggest they'd be very popular with a smiley presenter? Er, I present the preposterous Robert Kilroy Silk: (No further questions, Your Honour)



Please, don't claim to speak on behalf of what "the British public really think". Such a party would never be popular in Britain. It suited many of Britain's continental cousins to have fascist leadership over the course of living history, but not Britain's.
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