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  #741  
Old 12.10.2015, 19:46
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

A bit lengthy but this New Yorker article covers a broad range of popular factors that go into mass shootings (video games, mental health issues, alcohol and drug use, history of abuse, sexuality, anger/pent-up emotions/unhappiness with their lives).

Doesn't offer a solution, just a chilling conclusion:The problem is not that there is an endless supply of deeply disturbed young men who are willing to contemplate horrific acts. It’s worse. It’s that young men no longer need to be deeply disturbed to contemplate horrific acts.

It would be useful to conduct in-depth gun violence research. Unfortunately existing projects are hopelessly underfunded , thanks to the gun lobby which squelched most of federal research funding.
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  #742  
Old 12.10.2015, 20:25
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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A bit lengthy but this New Yorker article covers a broad range of popular factors that go into mass shootings (video games, mental health issues, alcohol and drug use, history of abuse, sexuality, anger/pent-up emotions/unhappiness with their lives).
like so much of the American press, however, the New Yorker article makes the faulty and ethnocentric assumption that the phenomenon is unique to America. the only thing that is unique to America is the ready access that these youth have to firearms, explosives and other weaponry.

unfortunately, the article also suggests a causative link between autism and violence, which is contrary to the scientific analysis.
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  #743  
Old 12.10.2015, 20:52
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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A bit lengthy but this New Yorker article covers a broad range of popular factors that go into mass shootings (video games, mental health issues, alcohol and drug use, history of abuse, sexuality, anger/pent-up emotions/unhappiness with their lives).

Doesn't offer a solution, just a chilling conclusion:The problem is not that there is an endless supply of deeply disturbed young men who are willing to contemplate horrific acts. It’s worse. It’s that young men no longer need to be deeply disturbed to contemplate horrific acts.

It would be useful to conduct in-depth gun violence research. Unfortunately existing projects are hopelessly underfunded , thanks to the gun lobby which squelched most of federal research funding.
I imagine there is a way of detecting this, but would require a lot more research. In funding such research, I think it is a strategic mistake to couple it with gun control . For one, funding becomes controversial, as you posted. Secondly, notice the LaDue character was in the process of building high casualty bombs that had little to do with guns. Yet, completion of research, and discovery of a methods of detecting it, may very well feed into a viable gun control proposition that could gain needed acceptance.

The dead on confrontation between gun rights and gun control activists produces a deadlock with no results. That conversation needs to be changed, and some common interests identified. I don't believe gun rights activists are in favour of arming people such as these. It doesn't help to insist that they do.
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  #744  
Old 12.10.2015, 21:27
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I don't believe gun rights activists are in favour of arming people such as these.

Re-read this several times. Who are you talking about 'people such as these'? The Gun Control activists??? They certainly do NOT with to be armed- do they. So who are those 'people such as these'?


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  #745  
Old 12.10.2015, 21:30
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Re-read this several times. Who are you talking about 'people such as these'? The Gun Control activists??? They certainly do NOT with to be armed- do they. So who are those 'people such as these'?
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Sshhhhh..... quiet..... listen...... relax...... don't over-react..... think!
Gun rights proponents are NOT interested in arming wackos that go on shooting sprees. Its a reason some of them cite for owning a gun.
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  #746  
Old 12.10.2015, 21:38
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

This here can potentially provide a pathway:
New tool can identify soldiers most likely to commit violent crimes, study shows

With soldiers, they have all the leeway to do all the research they need. They need to do this quietly to perfection without political grandstanding and discrediting themselves. in other words, science without a political agenda.
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  #747  
Old 12.10.2015, 21:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Gun rights proponents are NOT interested in arming wackos that go on shooting sprees. Its a reason some of them cite for owning a gun.
Makes absolutely no sense though- the right to gun ownership is for all- and many of those going on shooting sprees were members of gun clubs, etc.

And as said before:


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Old 14.10.2015, 10:48
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

I saw this in the news today.

Check the video.

http://www.gunblessameri.ca
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  #749  
Old 14.10.2015, 12:02
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

The SNL Gun skit is funnier:
Guns: We're here to stay

Comedy and satire is always good for self-critique for a culture. Although it does surpass credulity and diminishes returns, as it turns back on itself. Hopefully, most intelligent people can think beyond the satire, yet I doubt some are able to.

Can anyone explain why after the UK banned handguns in 1997, the homocide rate spiked and has not returned to pre-1997 levels? In regards to violent crime, UK has a higher rate per capita than the US. You are more likely to be hurt by someone in the UK than the US?

UK: 898 per 100,000
US: 387 per 100,000




One difficulty here is the definition of violent crime within the statistical comparisons, and concerted efforts for law enforcement to not report crimes. Nevertheless, banning hand guns in the UK did not result in the decline of violent crime, and may have even increased it, supporting Kleck by statistics, beyond rhetoric.

http://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/mur...fter-gun-bans/


http://www.criminaljusticedegreehub....ime-us-abroad/
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  #750  
Old 14.10.2015, 12:33
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Bezirk Pfäffikon ZH. 3 teenagers were handling with a gun in a familyhomes cellar. A 15 year old was shot and seriously injured.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/29580195
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  #751  
Old 14.10.2015, 12:50
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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One difficulty here is the definition of violent crime within the statistical comparisons, and concerted efforts for law enforcement to not report crimes. Nevertheless, banning hand guns in the UK did not result in the decline of violent crime, and may have even increased it, supporting Kleck by statistics, beyond rhetoric.
Criminal statistic comparison of different countries are indeed a big pit fall. So lets look at U.K. alone.

Even inside the U.K. (and Switzerland and most likely anywhere else) there is a problem non recording and non criming. (The first is do not record the incident at all, the second is to declare an incident later as a 'non crime').
Standards have been adopted to address this issues.
https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov...ata-integrity/


Also over the years, what is classified as a violent crime has changed and shifted.
Here the raw data https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...cal-crime-data

Look at the notes found in these files:

The following changes were made from 1 April 1998: the change to the Home Office Counting Rules for recorded crime had the effect of increasing the number of crimes counted. Numbers of offences for years before and after this date are therefore not directly comparable.

Introduction of the National Crime Recording Standard (NCRS) across England and Wales on 1 April 2002. Some forces adopted the Standard prior to this date. Broadly, the NCRS had the effect of increasing the number of crimes recorded by the police. Therefore, following the introduction of the Standard, numbers of recorded crimes are not comparable with previous years.

The homicide figure for 2002/03 includes 173 murders committed by Harold Shipman in previous years but coming to light in the official inquiry in 2002. The homicide figure in 2005/06 of 766 includes 52 homicide victims of the 7 July London bombings.

This explains the 2003 spike.
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  #752  
Old 14.10.2015, 12:58
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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This explains the 2003 spike.
Thanks. That might or might not explain some of the anomalies, and we'd have to consider US statistical anomalies when comparing. We also know that police in the UK have begun to under-report crimes in the mid-2000's to improve the statistics for their performance indexes, by political pressure. That has been reported elsewhere by law enforcers themselves.

Nevertheless, with that margin, it still does not show a drop in crimes after hand gun control, rather an increase. The gunless UK is still more dangerous than the gun crazy US.
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  #753  
Old 14.10.2015, 13:04
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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UK: 898 per 100,000
US: 387 per 100,000

The US number depends on which report you use based on this

The fact there is no defined standard measure makes it rather difficult to compare
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  #754  
Old 14.10.2015, 14:16
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The US number depends on which report you use based on this

The fact there is no defined standard measure makes it rather difficult to compare
Those numbers are from http://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com and http://crimeresearch.org/. These are valid sources for those researching and pursuing careers in criminal justice.

I would somewhat agree. The only 1 measure we have is of the presence of hand gun control vs. none, which is suppose to show a marked difference beyond statistical anomalies, if gun control proponents are right. I don't see here. In fact, I only see the opposite increase in crime. I don't see a refutation of Kleck, I see a confirmation. Does anybody see any different?
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  #755  
Old 14.10.2015, 14:17
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The gunless UK is still more dangerous than the gun crazy US.
Hmm, interestingly the England and Wales mortality statistics for 2013 has only 283 deaths in the X85-Y09 class. There is no listing in the U01-U02 class, Terrorism. 4 deaths are listed as Y87.1
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publicatio...cm%3A77-325289

Population of England and Wales was 57 Million in 2013
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pop-es...013/index.html

This gives around 5 Homicide deaths per million.

The England and Wales crime statistics on the other hand lists 558 cases of homicide.


The US CDC lists 16 121 deaths for 2013 in *U01-*U02,X85-Y09,Y87.1.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

US population was 316 Million in 2013
http://www.census.gov/popest/data/index.html

This gives 51 Homicide deaths per million.

Which one is the safer country?
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Old 14.10.2015, 14:21
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

UK violent crime includes a "slap" - 20% use a weopon (180) or which 5% is a gun.

US violent crime:
AA is 240*21% = 50
Robbery is 110*41% = 45
Homicide is 5 * 68% = 3.5

This gives a UK gun rate of 9/100,000
This gives a US gun rate of 98.5/100,000
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  #757  
Old 14.10.2015, 14:29
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

I haven't crunched those numbers, but I can somewhat agree with those findings. The hypothesis being:
The absence of guns makes violent incidents occur more often, but the presence of guns makes them less often but with deadlier results.

I can see how the thought of a gun in a dispute would cause people to back out of disputes instead of escalating, while the assumption of no guns would make people more willing to escalate a dispute. I have seen this behaviour and outlook in the US, UK and even here in Switzerland.

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Which one is the safer country?
As for which is safer; I suppose the UK, provided you don't mind being robbed, beaten or raped.
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  #758  
Old 14.10.2015, 14:30
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I wouldn't trust any report authored by someone who refers to "Britain & Wales".

Maybe that's the problem -- the numbers are inflated by double-counting?
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Old 14.10.2015, 14:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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As for which is safer; I suppose the UK, provided you don't mind being robbed, beaten or raped.
Means I can still post on EF
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Old 14.10.2015, 14:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Means I can still post on EF
As long as they don't break your fingers.


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I wouldn't trust any report authored by someone who refers to "Britain & Wales".

Maybe that's the problem -- the numbers are inflated by double-counting?
That's funny. But any interest in getting a good understanding and read of the reality of the issue, or would you rather have anything that doesn't support your view just go away?

Seriously, I would be for effective gun control if it could be proven to prevent or decrease violence.
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