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  #1521  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:15
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I dont think the bureau of justice statistics has a facebook page. Clearly stated in those stats that 39% went unreported.
Yes, yes...fine and dandy but where did you get the data from?
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  #1522  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:19
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Yes, yes...fine and dandy but where did you get the data from?
www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

Page 11 before you ask.
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  #1523  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:19
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Swiss get to keep their guns after finishing their military-service. We just inherited 2 (two!)
The current standard Swiss military rifle can easily be replaced by a water gun. After 5 mags the barrel drops like erectile dysfunction on a British tourist in Phuket.

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Old 13.06.2016, 12:20
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Absolutely! But the real issue here is terrorism and not gun violence. A gun was solely means to the atrocity. The media reported, that the shooter has been under FBI surveillance (or something along the lines of that...). His ass, along with his family should have been apprehended and deported, as easy as that. I'm tired of 3rd world wackos running into the West, causing havoc and trying to impose their backwards mentality on our progress and living standards. It is simply unacceptable.

I still don't see this as a terrorist attack, it was a wacko with a gun. Ok, I will give you that he did have a religion, and did claim he was with ISIS in his 911 call, and it certainly did cause terror. Seems like I am making a tenuous claim, but how about if he had been a Baptist, and had cited the Bible in his 911 call. Would that be more acceptable then?


I don't like wackos myself, irrespective of their race, religion, or preference of Operating System. The problem with wackos is not that they are wrong that Linux is the best operating system ever, but that they are wackos.
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Old 13.06.2016, 12:31
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I still don't see this as a terrorist attack, it was a wacko with a gun. Ok, I will give you that he did have a religion, and did claim he was with ISIS in his 911 call, and it certainly did cause terror. Seems like I am making a tenuous claim, but how about if he had been a Baptist, and had cited the Bible in his 911 call. Would that be more acceptable then?


I don't like wackos myself, irrespective of their race, religion, or preference of Operating System. The problem with wackos is not that they are wrong that Linux is the best operating system ever, but that they are wackos.
Hmm, let's backtrack...dude said that he was with ISIS, ISIS said that it was ISIS...FBI was on-board...I see it as a terrorist attack. In addition, I don't think religion has anything to do with this, as clearly, I know many Muslims who condemn such senseless violence and distance themselves from anything ISIS-related. Hence, religion should not be brought into context IMO.
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Old 13.06.2016, 12:33
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Swiss get to keep their guns after finishing their military-service. We just inherited 2 (two!)
Only if they want to.
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  #1527  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:35
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Hmm, let's backtrack...dude said that he was with ISIS, ISIS said that it was ISIS...FBI was on-board...I see it as a terrorist attack. In addition, I don't think religion has anything to do with this, as clearly, I know many Muslims who condemn such senseless violence and distance themselves from anything ISIS-related. Hence, religion should not be brought into context IMO.


OF COURSE ISIS says it was them! If Trump gets elected they will probably claim responsibility for that too.


I agree that it isn't religious.
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  #1528  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:38
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Hence, religion should not be brought into context IMO.
Let's pretend that this was an ISIS-sponsored, -sanctioned, or at least-approved-after-the-fact terrorist attack. What is the objective of ISIS? Let Wikipedia answer that for you: to establish a caliphate with "religious, political and military authority over all Muslims worldwide". Religion is very much part of the context.

But in the real world, it's more likely that this murderer was a nutjob wacko with a deep hatred for gay people.
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  #1529  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:39
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I agree that it isn't religious.
But his religion made it easy for him to do this.

A difficult one for the left. Left love Muslims. Left love Gays. Muslims hate Gays.

Lets just say this has nothing to do with religion until the next time it happens.
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  #1530  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:40
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I'm tired of 3rd world wackos running into the West, causing havoc and trying to impose their backwards mentality on our progress and living standards. It is simply unacceptable.
He wasn't sent to the US as a terrorist, he was born in NYC. If you want backwards mentality, just take a close look at your own home-grown conservative christian loony wing.
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  #1531  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:41
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Absolutely! But the real issue here is terrorism and not gun violence. A gun was solely means to the atrocity. The media reported, that the shooter has been under FBI surveillance (or something along the lines of that...). His ass, along with his family should have been apprehended and deported, as easy as that. I'm tired of 3rd world wackos running into the West, causing havoc and trying to impose their backwards mentality on our progress and living standards. It is simply unacceptable.
"His ass, along with his family should have been apprehended and deported, as easy as that." He was borne in US and was a citizen!
You cannot just deport US citizens at random, and where to? What country will accept a US citizen being deported for suspected terrorism ideals.
Get real!
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  #1532  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:41
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The current standard Swiss military rifle can easily be replaced by a water gun. After 5 mags the barrel drops like erectile dysfunction on a British tourist in Phuket.
You can do better than that - what about "Paedophile when their victim becomes legal"

I can understand owning a bolt-action rifle or a 12-bore if you live in Wyoming and hunt for food on a regular basis - but not overly convinced that anyone "needs" an assault rifle - or any automatic weapon, so how they are available legally baffles me. In general, if your home is broken into by someone carrying such a weapon you are either:
- a really really bad person about to be taken down by the FBI for being on their most wanted list
- a really really bad person about to be taken down by another really really bad person

And in either case - unless you sleep with the gun (loaded and chambered) you're not going to get to use it.

So how about - as a start we say that "assault/automatics" are banned.

Then we can look at guns with "large" magazines. You're going to have to be going some to unload a Glock 9mm - and chances are if you are doing so you are either at the range firing at a target or nefariously shooting people. You don't need 19 shots to scare off a burglar/robber - you need 1 - because if the sight of the gun doesn't put them off - firing a round vaguely in their direction will.

So lets throw those into the ban too. Sure there might be some collateral damage from criminals using these guns but they'll use the vast majority of their ammunition shooting at other criminals - and possibly the police - who tend to carry the same kit - but wear body armour too.

And finally lets get on to who should legally own a gun - do you hand the keys of a car over to someone who can't drive? No. So why not do the same with a gun? How about a tin-can (because Americans just love shooting those) from 200 yards - with a Colt .45 SAA?
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  #1533  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:42
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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He wasn't sent to the US as a terrorist, he was born in NYC. If you want backwards mentality, just take a close look at your own home-grown conservative christian loony wing.
My own what?

I don't care where he was born, look how many kids get duped into joining some terrorist organization. There are even Swiss ones who went abroad and joined ISIS.
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  #1534  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:46
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Please, lets not allow this to degenerate into a flame war.
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  #1535  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:52
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

So many Americans seem to be living under this curse of perpetual fear.

Fear of being killed.

Fear of being assaulted.

Fear of having their homes broken into.

Fear breeds more fear.

When society cares more about itself, when money and possessions are your gods and you think you alone are responsible for your own safety rather than trusting your fellow countrymen to be kind and caring, you resort to self defense and equip yourself accordingly.

When the vast social gaps are bridged and greed is no longer endemic, when care is no longer reserved to those who can afford it, then, and only then will Americans no longer feel the need to arm themselves to the teeth. Because fear is so often a greater motivator than reality itself.
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  #1536  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:53
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You can do better than that - what about "Paedophile when their victim becomes legal"

I can understand owning a bolt-action rifle or a 12-bore if you live in Wyoming and hunt for food on a regular basis - but not overly convinced that anyone "needs" an assault rifle - or any automatic weapon, so how they are available legally baffles me. In general, if your home is broken into by someone carrying such a weapon you are either:
- a really really bad person about to be taken down by the FBI for being on their most wanted list
- a really really bad person about to be taken down by another really really bad person

And in either case - unless you sleep with the gun (loaded and chambered) you're not going to get to use it.

So how about - as a start we say that "assault/automatics" are banned.

Then we can look at guns with "large" magazines. You're going to have to be going some to unload a Glock 9mm - and chances are if you are doing so you are either at the range firing at a target or nefariously shooting people. You don't need 19 shots to scare off a burglar/robber - you need 1 - because if the sight of the gun doesn't put them off - firing a round vaguely in their direction will.

So lets throw those into the ban too. Sure there might be some collateral damage from criminals using these guns but they'll use the vast majority of their ammunition shooting at other criminals - and possibly the police - who tend to carry the same kit - but wear body armour too.

And finally lets get on to who should legally own a gun - do you hand the keys of a car over to someone who can't drive? No. So why not do the same with a gun? How about a tin-can (because Americans just love shooting those) from 200 yards - with a Colt .45 SAA?
I completely agree with that. Hence, that is why the Glock 18 got banned and only law enforcement and special gun-shop owners affiliated with law enforcement are allowed to carry them. But frankly, it wouldn't take much to alter a Glock 17 and make it an automatic...or alter any semi-automatic rifle for that matter. Which leads to the question, do you disarm a population and have a scenario like in Paris, do you curb all sales of assault rifles or would it be more effective to take a more pragmatic stance to limit sales to nefarious individuals and infringe and violate the privacy of individuals. I'm afraid, I don't know which solution would be the most effective.
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  #1537  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:53
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The current standard Swiss military rifle can easily be replaced by a water gun. After 5 mags the barrel drops like erectile dysfunction on a British tourist in Phuket.
They must be at least 30 years old ...... and I'm not keen to have either near my house

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Only if they want to.
That's true - but if they do people like me who don't end up inheriting them. I just want to return them to "Zeughaus" but others of the community of heirs want to sell them, inspite the fact that we probably get hardly anything for them.
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  #1538  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:59
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Anyhoo, time for nighty-nights...I have to brew some moonshine in a couple of hours and I got a date with my cousin around noon. LiB - Over and out.
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Old 13.06.2016, 13:02
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Which leads to the question, do you disarm a population and have a scenario like in Paris, do you curb all sales of assault rifles or would it be more effective to take a more pragmatic stance to limit sales to nefarious individuals and infringe and violate the privacy of individuals. I'm afraid, I don't know which solution would be the most effective.
IMHO you do - you allow the structure that society puts in place to provide the security it needs. That will be both in the intelligence it gathers and then how it utilizes that intelligence.

Paris demonstrated, again, how even with the required intelligence to prevent an attack organizations failed to respond ahead of it happening. If you allow the public to act as your security you may end up with "ruck-sack wearing middle easterns" being shot because they "looked like they were going to blow the place up".

Now I know such logic exists in Flori-duh - but its Flori-duh - which produces more stories of human stupidity than any other of the 45 states combined.

(At which point I will smugly sit back and wait somebody less educated to claim there are a total of 50 - but it won't be LiB - especially considering where he lives)
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Old 13.06.2016, 13:02
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Anyhoo, time for nighty-nights...I have to brew some moonshine in a couple of hours and I got a date with my cousin around noon. LiB - Over and out.

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