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  #1561  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:29
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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paris:
strict gun law. islamic terrorists. assault rifles. no self defense (soft target, filled with probably anti-gun people even under loose gun law)

orlando:
loose gun law. islamic terrorists. assault rifle. no self defense (soft target, filled with apparently anti-gun people)

or would you maintain that the group of people that loves guns and the group of people that frequent gay clubs undoubtedly overlap?

so, assault rifles regardless of gun law. both soft targets. both islamic terrorists.

EF response: wtf america gun laws!!!1
normal response: do something about soft targets and/or islamic terrorists
Or do all three, although I don't think blaming the "soft targets" for not looking after themselves is a very fair response (unless you mean that more should be done somehow to protect the soft targets?)

Apparently there is at least one large gay gun rights group in the US, so I suppose there is an overlap between gun-lovers and gay club clientele. One might argue that due to homophobia and hate-based discrimination, gay people might feel more in need of firearms for self-defence than straight people. Also, I'm not sure your categorisation of Parisians as probably anti-gun people is based on anything concrete, although I don't necessarily disagree. As I pointed out earlier, polls show that most Americans (67% in a Time poll in January this year, for example) support stricter gun controls, and that may be similar in major western cities around the world.

A major difference between the Paris and Orlando attacks is that the Orlando shooter obtained his guns legally, according to the current lax firearm laws in Florida. Who knows whether he'd have been able to procure firearms and ammunition if he'd been banned from purchasing them legally.

In short, all the issues need to be tackled. Access to guns is one of those issues.
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  #1562  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:31
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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unbelievable but according to fox news both omar and his father are registered democrats.
What's unbelievable about that? Bernie Sanders is as left as can be in the US without falling foul of McCarthy, and he's anti-gun control/pro-gun.
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  #1563  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Blame the NRA, blame Trump, blame homophobia, blame Western intolerance... anything to avoid the link between terrorism and Islam.

The responses have actually gotten quite hilarious, watching commentators squirm, trying to avoid the sticky issue of Islam's role in all of this. Or it would be if the situation looking forward wasn't so hopeless.
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  #1564  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:33
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

I cant imagine my father or mother saying anything like this. and you still think his son isnt a product of his genes and parenting?

aspects of these medieval religions are a blight on civilised society.

If you think about it hes only saying what the christian right thinks and wants to say. he might as well convert to christianity!

you get enough people like this with the vote and you can only imagine what sort of country you have. ugh
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  #1565  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:44
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

"This is a gun issue"



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  #1566  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:47
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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unbelievable but according to fox news both omar and his father are registered democrats.
OMFG - democrats hate gays too
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  #1567  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:51
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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"This is a gun issue"



It would be interesting to know who the respondents were -- self-identified "Muslims"? Regular mosque-attending Muslims? The general populace of predominantly Muslim countries?

The figure for Thailand (99% say homosexuality is "morally wrong") is particularly suspect, since Thailand is the most gay-tolerant country in Asia. Anyone who has been there would have seen widespread, open acceptance of homosexuality. The footnote in the table shows that the data is skewed, anyway.

If you were to survey committed born-again Chrsitians in the United States, I suspect you'd get the same results.
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  #1568  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:51
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I may be seeing this a bit simplistically, but how can any event which results in 50 deaths from gunshot wounds NOT be regarded as at least partially a gun issue?


I don't think it is primarily a religious or ISIS issue, although that is what it will be regarded as.
I think that you either see this is one madman's attack on the LGBT community, which is reprehensible enough, and I feel the NRA would prefer this option. If they refused to act after Sandy Hook, this isn't going to move them into action.


If you do see it as a Daesh lonewolf attack on American citizens, then the NRA have to take this one seriously because it's their worst case scenario. Armed security / police on the scene right from the off at a terrorist attack with a domestic perp who bought the weapons a week or two beforehand.

They can't come back with... "we need air marshals" or "we need armed teachers" this time. They really need to look at a seriously flawed system of gun control and access.
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  #1569  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:52
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I find it hard to understand why you cannot see this as a gun issue.

I'm not alone.

EF is not a U.S. Republican mouthpiece - it's a community website in Switzerland, Europe.

Perhaps you'll find more people with your point of view on an NRA forum?
Tom,

I'm not defending the Republicans (independent) nor the NRA (not a member). I'm not defending Trump (not a fan). I'm not advocating gun rights either (this is not a move to deflect)

I'm saying I think this is a watershed moment. The NY Times OpEd article reinforces my thinking*. I'm saying there are some smart people on this forum and maybe I am completely off base.


But.


What if it did sway the Brexit vote? What if this did propel Trump into office? Wouldn't your rarified, Switzerland, European EF community of like minded drones think this is worth discussion?

That's it. Nothing else.


Out.




*Why am I quoting this commie lefty rag (NYT) if I'm such a fascist?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...eir-audiences/
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  #1570  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:56
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Or do all three, although I don't think blaming the "soft targets" for not looking after themselves is a very fair response (unless you mean that more should be done somehow to protect the soft targets?)

Apparently there is at least one large gay gun rights group in the US, so I suppose there is an overlap between gun-lovers and gay club clientele. One might argue that due to homophobia and hate-based discrimination, gay people might feel more in need of firearms for self-defence than straight people. Also, I'm not sure your categorisation of Parisians as probably anti-gun people is based on anything concrete, although I don't necessarily disagree. As I pointed out earlier, polls show that most Americans (67% in a Time poll in January this year, for example) support stricter gun controls, and that may be similar in major western cities around the world.

A major difference between the Paris and Orlando attacks is that the Orlando shooter obtained his guns legally, according to the current lax firearm laws in Florida. Who knows whether he'd have been able to procure firearms and ammunition if he'd been banned from purchasing them legally.

In short, all the issues need to be tackled. Access to guns is one of those issues.
yes i do mean, more protective measures. or have soft targets (in the people sense) think about becoming a harder target. i dont see many options for that except arming yourself. which is why the gun control thing is controversial - it is both a problem and a potential solution. same way MAD leads to world peace - at the huge risk of all hell breaking loose.

orlando shooter had the proper licenses because of his work in security. so in that sense it could happen anywhere regardless of the gun laws.
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  #1571  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:56
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Blame the NRA, blame Trump, blame homophobia, blame Western intolerance... anything to avoid the link between terrorism and Islam.

The responses have actually gotten quite hilarious, watching commentators squirm, trying to avoid the sticky issue of Islam's role in all of this. Or it would be if the situation looking forward wasn't so hopeless.

Well, if there is blame to be laid (other than the fact that some wacko shot 50 people), then wouldn't one place to lay said blame be the door of the FBI/Homeland Security? They thought he was enough of a problem to interview him and put him on a no fly list, but it was apparently too far to infringe on his 2nd amendment rights?


Oh, wait, 2nd amendment rights are inalienable.... ok


Just keep believing that there is nothing wrong with the system and if anything goes wrong the causes can ONLY be external.
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  #1572  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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orlando shooter had the proper licenses because of his work in security. so in that sense it could happen anywhere regardless of the gun laws.
No it couldn't. Security guards in the U.K. are not allowed any guns, let alone assault rifles.
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  #1573  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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orlando shooter had the proper licenses because of his work in security. so in that sense it could happen anywhere regardless of the gun laws.
So the FBI, having interviewed him and having put him on the no-fly list decided NOT to withdraw his license and confiscate his weapons.

Remind me again - what does the I in FBI stand for??
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Old 13.06.2016, 16:08
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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So the FBI, having interviewed him and having put him on the no-fly list decided NOT to withdraw his license and confiscate his weapons.
If only we had a president who thought that this was crazy, and it should be changed. Oh wait. We do.

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  #1575  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:11
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Well, if there is blame to be laid (other than the fact that some wacko shot 50 people), then wouldn't one place to lay said blame be the door of the FBI/Homeland Security? They thought he was enough of a problem to interview him and put him on a no fly list, but it was apparently too far to infringe on his 2nd amendment rights?


Oh, wait, 2nd amendment rights are inalienable.... ok


Just keep believing that there is nothing wrong with the system and if anything goes wrong the causes can ONLY be external.
The blame lies purely with the guy that did this. You're never going to be able to stop these types of attacks from happening.
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  #1576  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:17
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The blame lies purely with the guy that did this. You're never going to be able to stop these types of attacks from happening.


Stop them? No. I would submit that with relatively little effort a system might be implemented that put the loonies on the radar long before it comes to this, and give law enforcement even the slightest chance of intervening.






As long as the discussion stays with "You can't take my guns" then it will just go on and on and on.
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  #1577  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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So the FBI, having interviewed him and having put him on the no-fly list decided NOT to withdraw his license and confiscate his weapons.

Remind me again - what does the I in FBI stand for??
"Investigation"... and I bet you were thinking "Intelligence" in an embarrassing blond moment.
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  #1578  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:19
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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No it couldn't. Security guards in the U.K. are not allowed any guns, let alone assault rifles.
point is, people have guns even with strict gun laws because of their profession and they can still go nuts.
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  #1579  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:19
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

F@#ked By Idiots (in the NRA)

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So the FBI, having interviewed him and having put him on the no-fly list decided NOT to withdraw his license and confiscate his weapons.

Remind me again - what does the I in FBI stand for??
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  #1580  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:20
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Here's how you can add a rainbow flag filter to your Facebook profile pic. This approach worked wonders in the fight against Islamic terrorism after Paris and Brussels.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...e-picture-and/
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