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  #1761  
Old 16.06.2016, 00:22
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

The shooter lives in a country that has extreme groups approving his actions from all over : http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...praise-orlando
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  #1762  
Old 16.06.2016, 00:27
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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but still wasn't on the watchlist,

Yes, because there are so many shootings, but the standard reporting is

white guy: lone wolf lunatic
black/latino : gang violence
brown : muslim terrorist.

So you're not about going after extreme christian groups.

nice, just downplay violence by just stating it "probably" someone looking at someone funny. Bollox

EDIT: My point being, you downplay violence against LGBT in christian countries in order to point at muslims and say, but they're worse!
so why wasnt he on the watchlist? i thought murica was racist and islamophobe? would expect every ME guy to be on the list then. but apparently not even jihad fanboyism gets you on the list.

i am totally after going any religion, but i suppose we need to set priorities. not gonna care about the rash on my left arm if my right arm is on fire.

no im not downplaying the violence, im saying that it is not a fair comparison if you call orlando shooting and a slap in the face the same thing. it skews your view. both violence but not the same.

my point being, you overplay mild to moderate violence against lgtb in order to point at christians and say they are as bad or worse as the mild to extreme violence from muslims.
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  #1763  
Old 16.06.2016, 00:33
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Yet another possible twist in the tale. Can't help wondering why this didn't come to light sooner.

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The FBI refuses to confirm whether Omar Mateen called News 13 - but the station says it traced the call to his mobile phone.
http://news.sky.com/story/1712526/or...led-tv-station
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  #1764  
Old 16.06.2016, 00:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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so why wasnt he on the watchlist? i thought murica was racist and islamophobe? would expect every ME guy to be on the list then. but apparently not even jihad fanboyism gets you on the list.

i am totally after going any religion, but i suppose we need to set priorities. not gonna care about the rash on my left arm if my right arm is on fire.

no im not downplaying the violence, im saying that it is not a fair comparison if you call orlando shooting and a slap in the face the same thing. it skews your view. both violence but not the same.

my point being, you overplay mild to moderate violence against lgtb in order to point at christians and say they are as bad or worse as the mild to extreme violence from muslims.
Also, when you're talking about gays being thrown off buildings, your talking about a country where law and order has completely broken down, and expanding that to every person of the same religion. You know that muslims don't hold the exclusive rights to capital punishment for anyone other than hetero?
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  #1765  
Old 16.06.2016, 00:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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so why wasnt he on the watchlist? i thought murica was racist and islamophobe? would expect every ME guy to be on the list then. but apparently not even jihad fanboyism gets you on the list.
Doing a little twisting there are we? I take it you're saying he should have been on the watchlist, let's hear the standards by which you would put people on the watchlist? Anyone arabic looking says something remotely dubious, on they go?

EDIT: FFS, I could go on to twitter right now, search for derogatory terms and bring up a potential list of nutjobs.
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  #1766  
Old 16.06.2016, 00:43
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Also, when you're talking about gays being thrown off buildings, your talking about a country where law and order has completely broken down, and expanding that to every person of the same religion
Which country would that be?
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  #1767  
Old 16.06.2016, 00:47
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Which country would that be?
Took me a sec to find out, why don't you?
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  #1768  
Old 16.06.2016, 00:59
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Also, when you're talking about gays being thrown off buildings, your talking about a country where law and order has completely broken down, and expanding that to every person of the same religion. You know that muslims don't hold the exclusive rights to capital punishment for anyone other than hetero?
im connecting both the pervasive hate against lgbt among most muslims around the world (also here) with the actual violence and other ill treatment being perpetrated in mainly islamic world. the actual violence is starting to peak through in our world now as well (not just against the gays). doesnt look like its gonna become less any time soon.

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Doing a little twisting there are we? I take it you're saying he should have been on the watchlist, let's hear the standards by which you would put people on the watchlist? Anyone arabic looking says something remotely dubious, on they go?

EDIT: FFS, I could go on to twitter right now, search for derogatory terms and bring up a potential list of nutjobs.
jihad fanboyism is a nice start.
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  #1769  
Old 16.06.2016, 01:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Islamic State?

Last edited by kriss kross; 16.06.2016 at 01:14.
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  #1770  
Old 16.06.2016, 01:49
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Islamic State?
Not a country, and never will be.
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  #1771  
Old 16.06.2016, 02:27
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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im connecting both the pervasive hate against lgbt among most muslims around the world (also here) with the actual violence and other ill treatment being perpetrated in mainly islamic world. the actual violence is starting to peak through in our world now as well (not just against the gays). doesnt look like its gonna become less any time soon.



jihad fanboyism is a nice start.
What about stormfront? Known to be a visited site of mass murderers

Edit: so with the word most, you're saying over 50%, what are the stats for other religious groups?

Last edited by cyrus; 16.06.2016 at 02:42.
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  #1772  
Old 16.06.2016, 06:40
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You know that muslims don't hold the exclusive rights to capital punishment for anyone other than hetero?
What counts is the crime why gays and straights get capital punishment, not the sole fact that a criminal can be either and anything in-between.

In a strict version of islamic law, being gay IS the crime justifying capital punishment. There is no other legal system where that is the case: Even Victorian England and Nazi Germany had prison and hard work sentences, not death. People still died because the camp and prisons were designed to let people die, but not from capital punishment.

The hate against gays is no specific trait of islamic culture, death penalty for it in shariya is. So in practice, the number of murdered gays can be higher in a given non-islamic country at a given time and place (Nazi Germany 1936-1945), you're right. The legitimation of those deaths however is based on very different grounds. It doesn't matter when one gets a lethal bullet in an Orlando night club, but it matters in politics and in a society.

Violence against gays is one thing, its legitimation is another one. Fighting the legitimation rhetoric is far more difficult than the legal treatment of hate crime.
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  #1773  
Old 16.06.2016, 09:55
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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im connecting both the pervasive hate against lgbt among most muslims around the world (also here) with the actual violence and other ill treatment being perpetrated in mainly islamic world. the actual violence is starting to peak through in our world now as well (not just against the gays). doesnt look like its gonna become less any time soon.



jihad fanboyism is a nice start.
This is quite of a statement. Who in here is Muslim and has shown hatred toward LGBT??
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  #1774  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

The vast majority of Muslims hate homosexuality. It is illegal in virtually all Muslim countries, and punishable by death in many.

Let's not pretend there's no issue there.
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  #1775  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:05
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The vast majority of Muslims hate homosexuality. It is illegal in virtually all Muslim countries, and punishable by death in many.

Let's not pretend there's no issue there.
And yet I've seem more men holding hands and kissing each other in muslim countries than anywhere else.

I for one think it fantastic news that we focus entirely on islam as the souce of all evil and not look into ways to minimize the impact on whack jobs on society.
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  #1776  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:09
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And yet I've seem more men holding hands and kissing each other in muslim countries than anywhere else.
That's true, they're mad for that. Indians too.

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I for one think it fantastic news that we focus entirely on islam as the souce of all evil and not look into ways to minimize the impact on whack jobs on society.
Or we could just admit that it's a fact that homosexuality is incompatible with the vast majority of Islamic society and not try to sugar coat it.
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  #1777  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:17
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Islamic State?
How about Libya, Irak, Saudi, Afgahnistan.. they have all in the past 20 years thrown sexual male "criminals" off water towers etc. The females are usually stoned to death.
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  #1778  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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This is quite of a statement. Who in here is Muslim and has shown hatred toward LGBT??
I only know of two Muslims on EF. One of them has a penchant for KFC, so I'd say it was him.
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  #1779  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:43
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

You do not necessarily need guns to tackle a gunman.
"Student shown pepper-spraying and tackling gunman in school shooting"

Source and video
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  #1780  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:00
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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so if someone is lyrical about IS and it's ideology you dont think that warrants a closer look on this person. i mean, you could even do that in addition to your general restriction of the public. maybe prevent an extra few killings. why willingly ignore the motive? seems like a valuable piece of info for future reference. find a pattern perhaps. isnt that what intel agencies do?
Anyone with extreme ideologies should be monitored and investigated. But focusing on 1 ideology believing it is the ONLY reason people kill is a dangerous assumption

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you act like someone decides that x people get killed per year due to ideology and that if you stamp out one group, another group would just fill the quotum so why bother.
Not quite - but history has shown that whatever organizations we do manage to get ahead of in terms of counter-terrorism - another one pops up and commits an atrocity. Focusing on one at the detriment of others is what gives opportunity

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how about a compromise? we let intel agencies look for jihad boys and then we prevent them from recruiting and you reduce their travel choices. You impose tighter controls of weapons and explosive materials. You tighten restrictions on controlled or sensitive information.
I've already said that the (16) intelligence agencies should use the intelligence they have gathered to reduce opportunities. You don't get points for repeating it

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instead of hamhandedly restricting the entire populace just to avoid being called an islamophobe.
And yet look at the hamhanded approach to what the populace can take on planes, or the fact they can't be trusted with a chocolate egg with a small toy in it or playing Lawn Darts

Mind you they also can't be trusted to touch something that is clearly very hot - or sip a liquid which is hot - or consume a hot product without letting it cool - without sufficient warning signs.

If Islam really was the problem - Sandy Hook wouldn't have happened. In fact how many of these can be blamed on Islam? This one in New Mexico?
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