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  #1821  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:23
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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whatever - in the thesaurus section of the link you posted, Islamist is a synonym for Muslim. But you just want to have your cake and eat it, too.
Eeeeeeh nope, read again.
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  #1822  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:38
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Eeeeeeh nope, read again.
wow, you're really reaching now.

Islamist (ˈɪzləmɪst)
adj
(Islam) supporting or advocating Islamic fundamentalism
n
(Islam) a supporter or advocate of Islamic fundamentalism


Are you saying that the shooter, a Muslim who swore allegiance to ISIS, a fundamentalist Islamic organization, while he was murdering 49 people to advocate Islamic fundamentalism, was not an Islamist?
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  #1823  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:43
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Are you saying that the shooter, a Muslim who swore allegiance to ISIS, a fundamentalist Islamic organization, while he was murdering 49 people to advocate Islamic fundamentalism, was not an Islamist?
From Lewtons link

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He pledged allegiance to Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda AND ISIS, 3 organizations that are de facto at war with each other, showing he was ignorant about all 3
That's like pledging allegiance to Russia, The USA and North Korea.. its nonsense.
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  #1824  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:47
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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From Lewtons link



That's like pledging allegiance to Russia, The USA and North Korea.. its nonsense.
Exactly - how much of a nutcase must you be to pledge allegiance to the USA?? They do weird shit like sing praise to a flag!!

They'll be voting in a giant oompah lumpah next!
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  #1825  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:52
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

You can't drink, go into bars, have an application to meet up with gay men and in the meantime swear allegiance to Islamic organisations that have the reputation to kill, torture, arrest, amputate people of their own organization and civilians for these "crimes".

I stand by what I said, according of what we know so far he wasn't an Islamist but wanted to make people believe he was.
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  #1826  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

from the article (Lewton's link):

"Brandes-Tuka pointed out that according to all available evidence, Mateen’s attack was rooted not in a desire to carry out an act of terrorism in the name of radical Islamic views, but rather as the result of letting hate take over his life and working for an employer with a long background of abuse and domination"

Hmm..nice conjecture by the author, but interestingly enough, he never mentioned any of these things while killing 49 people. He did, however, cite ISIS allegiance and US-Afghanistan involvement as his motive.

Whether or not he was well versed on politics or Islam is neither here nor there.

Just because some guy on the internet says it had nothing to do with Islam, doesn't make it true. I'll look to the facts and statements before some Islamist apologist's opinion, thanks...
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  #1827  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:03
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You can't drink, go into bars, have an application to meet up with gay men and in the meantime swear allegiance to Islamic organisations that have the reputation to kill, torture, arrest, amputate people of their own organization and civilians for these "crimes".

I stand by what I said, according of what we know so far he wasn't an Islamist but wanted to make people believe he was.
But you can call yourself a non-believer Muslim? The irony...
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  #1828  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:03
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You can't drink, go into bars, have an application to meet up with gay men and in the meantime swear allegiance to Islamic organisations that have the reputation to kill, torture, arrest, amputate people of their own organization and civilians for these "crimes".

I stand by what I said, according of what we know so far he wasn't an Islamist but wanted to make people believe he was.
Uhm didn't the 9/11 high jackers drink and go to strip clubs?
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  #1829  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:16
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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But you can call yourself a non-believer Muslim? The irony...
Still talking about me? How does it prove the point that he was or not an Islamist?

Stay on the topic, please
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  #1830  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:19
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Uhm didn't the 9/11 high jackers drink and go to strip clubs?
along with the rest of saudi arabia
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  #1831  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:22
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Still talking about me? How does it prove the point that he was or not an Islamist?

Stay on the topic, please
It's totally on topic. He was as much an Islamist as you are a Muslim. Can't you understand that?
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  #1832  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:24
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Still talking about me? How does it prove the point that he was or not an Islamist?

Stay on the topic, please
He is calling you out on your cognitive dissonance it seems.

He was nto an islamist because he hung out on bars; while you are a muslim despite being a non-believer.
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  #1833  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:24
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It's totally on topic. He was as much an Islamist as you are a Muslim. Can't you understand that?
So there you go, you agree then. He wasn't a Islamist since you say I'm not a Muslim.

Glad we cleared that up.
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  #1834  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:25
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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So there you go, you agree then. He wasn't a Islamist since you say I'm not a Muslim.

Glad we cleared that up.
So you dont' consider yourself a muslim anymore?
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  #1835  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:39
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It's totally on topic. He was as much an Islamist as you are a Muslim. Can't you understand that?
I have zero connections to islam. I've read a bit of the Quoran though (in German). If I went on a killing spree and pledged allegiance to Daesh, would that make me an islamist?

If you answer "no" (and I don't see how one could honestly say it does), you essentially say there's more necessary than just a few words. Which of course begs the question: What is that? What are the criteria that make one an islamist?
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  #1836  
Old 16.06.2016, 17:23
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I have zero connections to islam. I've read a bit of the Quoran though (in German). If I went on a killing spree and pledged allegiance to Daesh, would that make me an islamist?

If you answer "no" (and I don't see how one could honestly say it does), you essentially say there's more necessary than just a few words. Which of course begs the question: What is that? What are the criteria that make one an islamist?
From the Internet so it must be true.

A true muslim is one who believes in following:

1-Tauheed (oneness of Allah)
2-Nabuwwat (Prophet Mohammed s.a.w beiong
the last prophet)
3-Angels
4-True love of Allah
5-True love of Prophet (s.a.w) and his family(r.a)
5-Qiyamat
6-Past Prophets

and does the following:

1-performs namaz (is a form of ritualistic prayer that takes a few minutes to perform and is the second pillar of Islam. It is obligatory for Muslims to pray 5 times a day at fixed hours)
2-roza (fasting)

3-hajj (is an annual Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca, and a mandatory religious duty for Muslims that must be carried out at least once in their lifetime by all adult Muslims )

4-zakat (a form of alms-giving and religious tax in Islam)
5-jihad (jihad means to strive , "It does NOT mean taking a gun or rocket launcher in hand and killing people without any knowledge. Islam prohibits it. It is NOT jihad, it is insanity).

As mentioned above, anybody who goes into a bar and murders a lot of strangers with no idea of their beliefs, habits or behaviour is automatically disqualified from being a Muslim.
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  #1837  
Old 16.06.2016, 17:24
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I have zero connections to islam. I've read a bit of the Quoran though (in German). If I went on a killing spree and pledged allegiance to Daesh, would that make me an islamist?

If you answer "no" (and I don't see how one could honestly say it does), you essentially say there's more necessary than just a few words. Which of course begs the question: What is that? What are the criteria that make one an islamist?


"I have zero connections to islam nsdap. I've read a bit of the Quoran mein kampf though (in German). If I went on a killing spree and pledged allegiance to Daesh hitler, would that make me an islamist a nazi?"
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  #1838  
Old 16.06.2016, 17:59
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I have zero connections to islam. I've read a bit of the Quoran though (in German). If I went on a killing spree and pledged allegiance to Daesh, would that make me an islamist?

If you answer "no" (and I don't see how one could honestly say it does), you essentially say there's more necessary than just a few words. Which of course begs the question: What is that? What are the criteria that make one an islamist?
Getting philosophical here but ...

what are the criteria that make you anything at all?

A lot of criteria may seem apparent on the surface but if you dig down it's much more complicated than that. What race is somebody? And by what definition? What do people believe? Do they actually always believe what they say they believe and under what conditions do beliefs change or adapt? Rather than clear cut categories there is probably more of a fuzzy continuum for this type of question.
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  #1839  
Old 16.06.2016, 19:03
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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"I have zero connections to islam nsdap. I've read a bit of the Quoran mein kampf though (in German). If I went on a killing spree and pledged allegiance to Daesh hitler, would that make me an islamist a nazi?"
If you really mean that as a question, my answer is a clear "no", there's much more to that.

The world just isn't that simple.
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  #1840  
Old 16.06.2016, 19:07
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Getting philosophical here but ...

what are the criteria that make you anything at all?

A lot of criteria may seem apparent on the surface but if you dig down it's much more complicated than that. What race is somebody? And by what definition? What do people believe? Do they actually always believe what they say they believe and under what conditions do beliefs change or adapt? Rather than clear cut categories there is probably more of a fuzzy continuum for this type of question.
That.

Just to be clear:
I didn't mean to get philosophical or to stop this discussion.

My point is, people seem to be using completely different, perhaps even contradicting criteria to categorize here. If that is indeed the case, one is prone to "aneinander vorbeireden" (not follow each other, not understand each other).
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