Egypt rebels against the new Pharao

Wollishofener · #1 27.11.2012, 22:44

People in Egypt have started to rebel against Pharao Mursi who tried/tries to get powers even exceeding whatever power the Presidents Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak ever had. People in Egypt had to realize that he clearly wanted to move Egypt towards an Islamic Republic Iran style, and are NOT accepting this.

As it looks right at this moment, things may get out of hand and turn into a take-over by the military-leadership.

The future will tell

marton · #2 01.12.2012, 21:57

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	People in Egypt have started to rebel against Pharao Mursi who tried/tries to get powers even exceeding whatever power the Presidents Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak ever had. People in Egypt had to realize that he clearly wanted to move Egypt towards an Islamic Republic Iran style, and are NOT accepting this. As it looks right at this moment, things may get out of hand and turn into a take-over by the military-leadership. The future will tell

Bit disappointing
First the Muslim Brotherhood said they would not put up a candidate for President
Then they said they would put up a candidate for President but he would do nothing extreme
Now Mursi is trying to give himself extreme powers.

First lesson from this is one cannot believe one word of Muslim Brotherhood statements
Everything else follows on from this

Sbrinz · #3 01.12.2012, 22:13

It serves them well: if they had kept the British colonisers their only problems today would be their hospital care and public transport punctuality.

Kash_Z · #4 01.12.2012, 22:39

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	It serves them well: if they had kept the British colonisers their only problems today would be their hospital care and public transport punctuality.

What does that mean? Ah I get it... those poor little brown people they can't look after themselves now that their Brit overlords have gone??

Wollishofener, I am cautiously pro-Morsi because after Mubarak, the only way can be up, and having lived in Egypt a few years ago, I am very aware of the huge amount of support that the MB commands amongst the grassroots and the poor. And going on nothing other than a gut-feeling, I think he'll stick to his word of assuming "mega-powers" only for 6 months (or whatever it is), but as you say only time will tell.

In any case, I found this summary of the texts which is supposed to be creating all the commotion. Points 1 & 2 I agree with very strongly, because it will kick out even more of Mubarak's old guard, and re-try the people who were protected by Mubarak's old guard after having been charged with attacking and killing protestors.

	Quote:
	The new constitutional statement only confirms the following: "1. Retrying the killers of the rebels and those who committed terrorist crimes against rebels whether they were politicians or executives during the time of the former deposed regime. 2. Immediate replacement of the current Public Prosecutor, Abdul-Majid Mahmoud, with a new one. 3. Giving a two month extension to the Constituent Assembly which was assigned to draft the constitution. 4. Confirming the impunity of the Constituent Assembly and the Shura (Consultative) Council. 5. Confirming impunity of the president's constitutional statements, laws and decisions issued since taking office until acceptance of the new Constitution and election of a new parliament. These constitutional statements, laws and decisions are not subject to appeals, must not be suspended or cancelled and all related lawsuits before any judicial body must be achieved. 6. The right of the President to take decisions and put in place procedures to deal with any danger faced by the revolution of January 25, the life of the nation, the national unity, the safety of the country and to deal with any action that could hinder the performance of the state's institutions. Everything must keep up with the spirit of the law."

marton · #5 02.12.2012, 18:06

	Quote:	Kash_Z
	What does that mean? Ah I get it... those poor little brown people they can't look after themselves now that their Brit overlords have gone?? Wollishofener, I am cautiously pro-Morsi because after Mubarak, the only way can be up, and having lived in Egypt a few years ago, I am very aware of the huge amount of support that the MB commands amongst the grassroots and the poor. And going on nothing other than a gut-feeling, I think he'll stick to his word of assuming "mega-powers" only for 6 months (or whatever it is), but as you say only time will tell. In any case, I found this summary of the texts which is supposed to be creating all the commotion. Points 1 & 2 I agree with very strongly, because it will kick out even more of Mubarak's old guard, and re-try the people who were protected by Mubarak's old guard after having been charged with attacking and killing protestors.

About "Points 1 & 2 I agree with very strongly, " me 2, but 5 & 6

Remember that Morsi is another one of those Mid East leaders who has stated the World Trade Centre attack was caused by explosives; not aeroplanes

Medea Fleecestealer · #6 02.12.2012, 18:56

	Quote:	Kash_Z
	What does that mean? Ah I get it... those poor little brown people they can't look after themselves now that their Brit overlords have gone?? Wollishofener, I am cautiously pro-Morsi because after Mubarak, the only way can be up, and having lived in Egypt a few years ago, I am very aware of the huge amount of support that the MB commands amongst the grassroots and the poor. And going on nothing other than a gut-feeling, I think he'll stick to his word of assuming "mega-powers" only for 6 months (or whatever it is), but as you say only time will tell. In any case, I found this summary of the texts which is supposed to be creating all the commotion. Points 1 & 2 I agree with very strongly, because it will kick out even more of Mubarak's old guard, and re-try the people who were protected by Mubarak's old guard after having been charged with attacking and killing protestors.

Thanks for posting that, but I'm not convinced that one and two should be part of a country's constitution. I'm not saying they shouldn't retry them, but that's a different part of the law and not anything to do with forming the guidelines for a country when hopefully the constitution is going to last many years, if not centuries.

As for 6, he issues all these conditions which break the law then says it must be done in the spirit of the law. He can't have it both ways.

I know he's got a big fight on his hands and if he does intend to give up these powers in 6 months, then maybe this will work. But as marton says, the Brotherhood did say they wouldn't field a presidential candidate and yet here we are with a Muslim Brotherhood president. If they can't keep their word on that, will they on anything else?

I remain cautiously optimistic, but only time will tell.

Wollishofener · #7 03.12.2012, 05:00

	Quote:	Kash_Z
	What does that mean? Ah I get it... those poor little brown people they can't look after themselves now that their Brit overlords have gone?? Wollishofener, I am cautiously pro-Morsi because after Mubarak, the only way can be up, and having lived in Egypt a few years ago, I am very aware of the huge amount of support that the MB commands amongst the grassroots and the poor. And going on nothing other than a gut-feeling, I think he'll stick to his word of assuming "mega-powers" only for 6 months (or whatever it is), but as you say only time will tell. In any case, I found this summary of the texts which is supposed to be creating all the commotion. Points 1 & 2 I agree with very strongly, because it will kick out even more of Mubarak's old guard, and re-try the people who were protected by Mubarak's old guard after having been charged with attacking and killing protestors.

As it looks right now, Egypt simply changed from one autocratic ruler to an another autocratic ruler. We'll see what comes out

3Wishes · #8 03.12.2012, 06:31

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	It serves them well: if they had kept the British colonisers their only problems today would be their hospital care and public transport punctuality.

	Quote:	Kash_Z
	What does that mean? Ah I get it... those poor little brown people they can't look after themselves now that their Brit overlords have gone??

I think that was sarcasm...

qwidgibo · #9 03.12.2012, 06:43

	Quote:	3Wishes
	I think that was sarcasm...

That would be my guess.

Jack of all trades. · #10 03.12.2012, 08:08

'the life of the nation, the national unity, the safety of the country...'

That sounds to me like...

the lives of the top Govt' officials and top business people.

National unity...as in don't change the systems put in place by the said Govt' officials who are, let's face it, in cahoots with big business.

Safety of the country... In other words the resources owned by big business.

Should not the safety and well being of the people come first?

In a political sense, there is one problem that currently underlies all of the others. That problem is making Government sufficiently responsive to the people. If we dont make government responsive to the people, we dont make it believable. And we must make government believable if we are to have a functioning democracy. Gerald R. Ford (1913 - 2006), Address at Jacksonville University, December 16, 1971

The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them right away. Ronald Reagan (1911 - 2004)

Ace1 · #11 03.12.2012, 09:44

	Quote:	marton
	first lesson from this is one cannot believe one word of politicians'* statements.*

ftfy.

marton · #12 10.12.2012, 14:27

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Thanks for posting that, but I'm not convinced that one and two should be part of a country's constitution. I'm not saying they shouldn't retry them, but that's a different part of the law and not anything to do with forming the guidelines for a country when hopefully the constitution is going to last many years, if not centuries. As for 6, he issues all these conditions which break the law then says it must be done in the spirit of the law. He can't have it both ways. I know he's got a big fight on his hands and if he does intend to give up these powers in 6 months, then maybe this will work. But as marton says, the Brotherhood did say they wouldn't field a presidential candidate and yet here we are with a Muslim Brotherhood president. If they can't keep their word on that, will they on anything else? I remain cautiously optimistic, but only time will tell.

Would have been more convincing if he had written the 6 months timescale in the constitution.
Now he has withdrawn some of his conditions but still gave the military the right to arrest civilians. Does not look good...

Loz1983 · #13 10.12.2012, 14:47

I don't wish to de-rail the thread or anything but the thought did occur to me that Egypt rolls in the tanks to use on her own protesting civilian population population. Despite this the western media seem largely unconcerned and there certainly isn't the outcry that there was when compared to the recent Gaza conflict. Could it be that certain parts of the western media doesn't actually care too much about people in the region as much as they do doing down Israel/the Jews?

amogles · #14 10.12.2012, 14:59

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	It serves them well: if they had kept the British colonisers their only problems today would be their hospital care and public transport punctuality.

and drunken teenagers

Pashosh · #15 10.12.2012, 20:42

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I don't wish to de-rail the thread or anything but the thought did occur to me that Egypt rolls in the tanks to use on her own protesting civilian population population. Despite this the western media seem largely unconcerned and there certainly isn't the outcry that there was when compared to the recent Gaza conflict. Could it be that certain parts of the western media doesn't actually care too much about people in the region as much as they do doing down Israel/the Jews?

You haven't seen nothing yet - Christians are already driven out of villages, criminal violence endemic, economy in freefall - but, hey, It's the Arab spring!

Wollishofener · #16 11.12.2012, 00:21

	Quote:	Pashosh
	You haven't seen nothing yet - Christians are already driven out of villages, criminal violence endemic, economy in freefall - but, hey, It's the Arab spring!

Yes. the same kind of spring as Czechoslovakia "enjoyed" in 1968. Totally different circumstances, true, but the same expression

Pashosh · #17 11.12.2012, 07:21

The spring of 1968 was crushed by external forces. The Arab "spring" is crushed by internal forces.

Wollishofener · #18 11.12.2012, 18:51

	Quote:	Pashosh
	The spring of 1968 was crushed by external forces. The Arab "spring" is crushed by internal forces.

Yes, and it is forces which co-operated in toppling the "ancien régimes" . And it becomes very evident that millions of people in Egypt and Tunisia did not realize what the fundamentalists had and have in mind.

marton · #19 11.12.2012, 22:04

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	Yes, and it is forces which co-operated in toppling the "ancien régimes" . And it becomes very evident that millions of people in Egypt and Tunisia did not realize what the fundamentalists had and have in mind.

Really sad; I foresee many ladies wearing complete disguises which they probably did not wish for.

Unless the ladies act now they will be forced into the female version of tents for at least 20/30 years or more.

There are a number of organisations who claim the ladies like these garments that hide from them the world; oddly I never met a lady who supported this view; probably I mix with the wrong people.

Wollishofener · #20 12.12.2012, 02:29

	Quote:	marton
	Really sad; I foresee many ladies wearing complete disguises which they probably did not wish for. Unless the ladies act now they will be forced into the female version of tents for at least 20/30 years or more. There are a number of organisations who claim the ladies like these garments that hide from them the world; oddly I never met a lady who supported this view; probably I mix with the wrong people.

There are two aspects. Frst, it looks as if the mainstream is gradually realising that toppling Mubarak did not bring freedom and democracy, but that a far worse dictatorship is looming. Second, interesting is to see how swiftly Mursi has become dependent on the army. So that it is well possible that some army officers will "save the country" in a not so distant future

Whatever, I think that King Mursi I ought to consider that bygone Egyptian rulers nowadays are not mumified