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Old 17.12.2012, 23:07
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1984 - Welcome Big Brother

My feelings hope that this will not be a part of the Swiss culture... for a very long time!

Still, initially from 1946-1948, sad that Eric Arthur Blair and George Orwell had such an insight into the future. Some say (personal comments from diverse websites) that the US has turned into a police-state; common to communist China; US race to equal with North Korea; Glad, more reasons not to visit US.

Seriously wonder if the US has any idea what the Homeland Security is really doing, and getting away with?

Electronic surveillance by U.S. law enforcement agencies has increased dramatically

DHS Funding Program to Eavesdrop on Bus Ride Conversations

MTA recording bus conversations to eavesdrop on trouble

Then, for those heading to the states, here a few tips:
Quote:
How the NSA searches for targets

There are a range of techniques that are probably used by the NSA to sift through the sea of communications it steals from the world's cables and airwaves:
  • Keywords. In this longstanding technique, the agency maintains a watch list or "dictionary" of key words, individuals, telephone numbers and presumably now computer IP addresses. It uses that list to pick out potentially relevant communications from all the data that it gathers. These keywords are often provided to the NSA by other security agencies, and the NSA passes the resulting intelligence "take" back to the other agencies or officials. According to the law, the NSA must strip out the names and other identifying information of Americans captured inadvertently, a process called "minimization." (According to published reports, those minimization procedures are not being properly observed.) In the 1990s, it was revealed that the NSA had used the word "Greenpeace" and "Amnesty" (as in the human rights group Amnesty International) as keywords as part of its "Echelon" program (see below).
  • Link analysis. It is believed that another manner in which individuals are now being added to the watch lists is through a process often called "link analysis." Link analysis can work like this: the CIA captures a terrorist's computer on the battlefield and finds a list of phone numbers, including some U.S. numbers. The NSA puts those numbers on their watch list. They add the people that are called from those numbers to their list. They could then in turn add the people called from those numbers to their list. How far they carry that process and what standards if any govern the process is unknown.
  • Other screening techniques. There may be other techniques that the NSA could be using to pluck out potential targets. One example is voice pattern analysis, in which computers listen for the sound of, say, Osama Bin Laden's voice. No one knows how accurate the NSA's computers may be at such tasks, but if commercial attempts at analogous activities such as face recognition are any guide, they would also be likely to generate enormous numbers of false hits.
Source

What are your thoughts about the newest form of eavesdropping?
JC
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Old 17.12.2012, 23:10
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

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My feelings hope that this will not be a part of the Swiss culture... for a very long time!

JC
Swiss govt. admits using spy software

P26
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Old 17.12.2012, 23:16
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

Oh well, Switzerland couldn't do without

One article explains, is the buses in outback Arkansas are being monitored with the excuse, that attacks on the bus driver might be detected. Come on
JC
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Old 17.12.2012, 23:58
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One of my favorite tv programs is "person of interest". Truth is not so far from fiction.
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Old 18.12.2012, 00:45
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

Not only are they listening (more)... Small city Paragould, Arkansas is turning militant:
Quote:
"[Police are] going to be in SWAT gear and have AR-15s around their neck," Stovall said. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."
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So glad to be out of the states when I did. Has anybody experienced anything like this?
JC
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Old 18.12.2012, 04:34
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

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Not only are they listening (more)... Small city Paragould, Arkansas is turning militant:
Source

So glad to be out of the states when I did. Has anybody experienced anything like this?
JC
Never!

I've only been ask questions like that in highly sensitive areas with enhanced security precautions and in town at 3am in the morning when I looked like a high schooler and there was a curfew. The officer told me to have nice walk after a very brief chat.

Anybody just casually stop me with an automatic weapon had better be working behind a fence cause I'd have their badge number pretty damn quick. I think you will find that most of these alleged incidents are few and far between. Real policemen and police departments have far too much to do to waste their time harassing normal citizens.

Oh, and I noticed that the article quoted made reference to Osama Bin Laden's Voice. That would be pretty damn impressive as he hadn't been in the States and has been dead for a while now. How old and paranoid is this piece of "journalism"?
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Old 18.12.2012, 08:44
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

Sorry, just noticed that I screwed up the link in my last post:
http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/a...1511092932.txt

I really don't think a large city would get away with something like this. But a smaller one can, simply for the lack of resistance. If you would read the comments below the article, there are a number of comments pledging their appreciation and support for this. Don't get it. One side the US is screaming for gun control, on the other the cries for protection.

Does everybody in the states think that some cops don't use their guns for criminal activities? What about the innocent that are shot by a police firearm? I know, a little OT...

Reminds me of a wet wash-cloth
JC
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Old 18.12.2012, 16:51
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

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Sorry, just noticed that I screwed up the link in my last post:
http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/a...1511092932.txt

I really don't think a large city would get away with something like this. But a smaller one can, simply for the lack of resistance. If you would read the comments below the article, there are a number of comments pledging their appreciation and support for this. Don't get it. One side the US is screaming for gun control, on the other the cries for protection.

Does everybody in the states think that some cops don't use their guns for criminal activities? What about the innocent that are shot by a police firearm? I know, a little OT...

Reminds me of a wet wash-cloth
JC
Well, the fact is, unless there is a declared state of emergency, they can't do this. I don't have to show ID or answer questions unless I am doing something that gives probable cause for a stop/search/seizure. Other wise the police just can't go around and ask for ID like this.

Unless the whole town is OK with a police state or if the fear they are referring to is just code for being afraid of certain racial or cultural groups. Don't forget that this is a state where towns actually had a sign warning Black people to be out before sundown.

Check this link out: Sundown Towns - Encyclopedia of Arkansas

When you read the comments and people are saying that Unions are threatening the children and so on and so on...

When you read the article and the policeman says that anyone who doesn't have an ID can be arrested for "obstructing a government operation"...

Clearly there are some seriously deluded people out there.

Expect court cases, soon. I am not required to carry an ID in the USA, like the UK, but unlike the rest of Europe. The first time someone is arrested for failing to carry an ID when "just" taking a walk the feces are going to hit the air recirculator.
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Old 18.12.2012, 17:45
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

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Expect court cases, soon. I am not required to carry an ID in the USA, like the UK, but unlike the rest of Europe. The first time someone is arrested for failing to carry an ID when "just" taking a walk the feces are going to hit the air recirculator.
You don't need to carry an ID in Switzerland eighter.
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Old 18.12.2012, 19:26
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

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You don't need to carry an ID in Switzerland eighter.
Sure, even though a copy of the original will work...

When was the last time you were asked while waking your dog in a rural neighborhood corner to prove your identification from two men dressed in black and protective vests carrying automatic weapons?
JC
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Old 18.12.2012, 22:38
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

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You don't need to carry an ID in Switzerland eighter.
Ah, but the difference is that I don't legally have to have an ID in the USA, unless I want to do something that requires that I have said ID. I only need a Social Security Number for Tax purposes and I am only required to show that to IRS agents or their duly authorised agents, I.E. employers.

When I was involved in an Accident in Switzerland, I was asked for my ID by the police, I informed the officer that I only had my Swiss Driving License and he nodded and said that would be fine as I couldn't get the latter without the former.

Just a quick Google came up with... Lonely Planet: Switzerland

Or from Trip Advisor There is a legal requirement in Switzerland that a government-issued ID be carried by travellers at all times. Visitors from countrites that do not provide an ID card (e.g., U.K. or USA) must carry their passport - or at the very least a copy of their passport.

Everyone in Switzerland is required to be able to produce ID on demand.
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Old 18.12.2012, 22:44
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

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Sure, even though a copy of the original will work...

When was the last time you were asked while waking your dog in a rural neighborhood corner to prove your identification from two men dressed in black and protective vests carrying automatic weapons?
JC
Never!

I have had this happen in large cities in Europe during terrorist threats, but this is not an unreasonable behaviour during such times. Otherwise it should be fairly calm.

The problem is that the reason for the fear in the Paragould article is simple racism in most cases. Read the comments to get a flavour of what is really behind the "fear" that is supposedly validating this sort of behaviour. Unfortunately, it doesn't make said behaviour any less embarrassing.

A Russian friend of mine has a saying...
You can argue with stupid and you can outsmart crazy.
Oh, Well..


I'm not defending the actions in my country in this case, but I am observing that to say this is not an American only trait.
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Old 18.12.2012, 23:21
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

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I'm not defending the actions in my country in this case, but I am observing that to say this is not an American only trait.
Respected, 100%.

Let me ask you this in return. Are the actions of the US government in the last 11 years worthy of the titles of patriotism or freedom or the titles that dominated the many years of proud history? Sure, the times have changed, no doubt Still, the land of the free and home of the brave... is turning into the land of the managed and home of the 1% brave (military).
JC
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Old 19.12.2012, 18:08
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Re: 1984 - Welcome Big Brother

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Respected, 100%.

Let me ask you this in return. Are the actions of the US government in the last 11 years worthy of the titles of patriotism or freedom or the titles that dominated the many years of proud history? Sure, the times have changed, no doubt Still, the land of the free and home of the brave... is turning into the land of the managed and home of the 1% brave (military).
JC
I have always thought of our motto more appropriately stated as "Land of the Free 'to shoot off at the mouth'" because we are also "Home of the Brave 'people who will die to protect you from your own stupidity.'"
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