After watching Panorama last night in reference to the Barclay brothers I may think twice about buying the Telegraph in the future. Unbelievable how they can get away with so many tax exemptions, very smart, but still the average Joe must pay taxes yet they are billionaires and continue to make a mockery of the system.

But they pay more taxes than you, right?

Have you ever stopped to think how many jobs just one private jet generates or supports? Never mind the highly paid people who put them together. Each plane means two pilots, a flight attendant, a guy who fuels it, a mechanic who maintains it, catering company personnel, airport support staff, air trafic control, etc, etc.

It makes zero sense to push the rich into hiding. Most governments just waste the tax revenue anyway. Good thing at least here your taxes seem to be doing something for the people.

Great. So they should pay the same tax rate or more than these people.

The idea that rich will stop spending money or some how go "into hiding" is a myth. Taxes have been historically much higher and they were still in plain view.

Not quite. They will pay the tax set by the goverment on the income they receive. There is a difference.

is it earned income?

passive investment income?

corporation?

In any event, they pay a lot more tax than we do as well as provide many more jobs and contributions to the economy than we.


They wont necessarily stop spending, but they can reconsider whether that new business venture is worth it, whether trading in one country over another is better, which has an impact on my first point.

Lets remember, there is nothing wrong with tax planning to avoid higher taxes. Tax evasion is the crime. There is a difference.

i'm undecided on this. Their corporation pays tax, the people they employ pay taxes, the buildings they lease etc. These are all positive societal contributions. At the end of the day they use tax minimisation strategies which I understand are legal. Question is, would you willingly pay more tax than you do now or do you try to? So the incentive is clear. Having said that, I think it is wrong that richer people pay less than poor people. I'm in favour of a flat 20% rate, but i'm probably naive.

*Bonus point: I have seen the Barclays landing their helicopter several times...

They do cut down radically on spending. I used to manage finances for several families like that. They cut down real good. How do you know about the spending habits of the rich?

Now I understand why you expect other people to pay your bills... You've seen it happening with the rich people you've been working for.

I only think once about buying the daily telegraph and then never buy it as its a trash paper anyway

I am curious what you do, living in Geneva and all....

I got a great Christmas gift idea for you. A little chair that you can use to get on and off your high horsie

I don't work for somebody who is rich to make him even richer by finding way of other people paying his bills.

Even though I live in Geneva I pay all my bills myself (even my fuel bill!).

But a little chair is a nice idea...Perhaps you and your boss could show me getting on the high horse thing?

You should work for Fox News where the motto is: "twisting words and facts since 1999".

Would you like your chair made out of local wood or can I use something foreign grown?

Getting back on track....

The Barclay brothers have since the 1960's been buying up failing companies. They never tried to turn these companies around, they fired all the staff, sold off the best bits and dumped the rest. They have been causing endless heartbreak and huge investors' loss over a generation, but also making themselves very rich, about £ 2.25 billion.

They are registered as living in Monaco. Since 1993 they own the private island of Brecqhou off the coast of Sark, near Guernsey. They are lords of their own domaine and I believe they set their own "taxes", as the UK government consider them part of Sark, but the brothers dispute this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/9709518.stm . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brecqhou

So it is hard to see where they do pay any tax at all, but then if you do not live in the EU there will be little tax to pay anyway.

.

I thought they still owned The Telegraph? And they employ a lot of the islanders on Sark. Is there anything wrong buying a company, breaking it up and selling it for more? I understand that they are self-made billionaires. I understand the establishment dont like that, but there you go.

So, basically like Mitt Romney? Millions nearly voted him president too

They now own a lot more than the Telegraph, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclay_Brothers

They became rich by treading on everyone, and ruthless aquisitions. There is no reason to believe they have changed their ways. They portray the ugly & unacceptable face of capitalism. Listen to the BBC news item I posted. They are a law unto themselves, as there is no effective government on Sark.

If you wish to adulate them feel free to do so. But I advise all others to keep away from them.

do they? i think richer people generally pay more tax. maybe not as a percentage, but then that is expected.

i think the only way to have a fair tax is if everybody pays the same amount. e.g. everyone pays £2,000 a year in tax.

The EF is now the online edition of the Guardian....

The Milliband "Doobie" brothers are here as well under assumed identities. And Idefix with his keen interest in transportation is probably Ken Livingston himself.

I dont adulate them at all, but I dont see that they are any worse than others like them merely they have travelled further to get there. Politicians, hedge fund managers, CEOs. Why highlight these two?

I'll give you a list and you tell me who we should exalt instead:

Bush & Cheney
Bernie Ecclestone
Tony Blair
Steven A Cohen
Philip Green
Jimmy Carr
Ken Dodd
The British Royal Families
Companies worldwide
Your bosses
Rich Germans
African dictators
Roman Abramovich

Could go on for ever, but think point is clear. Probably caused less deaths than some of the others...

Looks like a list for the international criminal court, give or take a few names