Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 13.09.2013, 17:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Gallen Kanton
Posts: 640
Groaned at 143 Times in 97 Posts
Thanked 1,107 Times in 506 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 the most serious, where would you put rape and where would you put a false rape claim?
Rape is a stone cold, cast iron, 10.

and false rape allegations? 10, of course.

For two reasons:

1. You belittle every single rape victim, everywhere. You trivialise their pain and suffering, for your own personal vendetta or gain.
2. You ruin that persons life. Even if/when they are acquitted, the stigma of being accused of rape will haunt them forever. A simple google search will bring it all back for all and sundry, and that person will never be able to live a normal life. Meanwhile, the accuser gets off scot free.

Im baffled that this is up for discussion.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank J2488 for this useful post:
  #82  
Old 13.09.2013, 17:44
429's Avatar
429 429 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: near Frauenfeld
Posts: 111
Groaned at 10 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 69 Times in 38 Posts
429 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
Rape is a stone cold, cast iron, 10.
and false rape allegations? 10, of course.

The issue here is that many rape cases are clearly not black and white. Often its someone saying that there was rape where the other party may say there that there was consent. How do you prove one or the other? Take the Kachelmann case for example. How would you judge? If it is rape there must be punishment, but should that be 25 years as for killing someone? So if Kachelmann was not guilty of rape, should they now send the women who accused him for 25 years to jail? REALLY?

The world is not black and white and this is coming from a guy that was often accused of being rather harsh with my judgment
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 13.09.2013, 17:52
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,802
Groaned at 189 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 24,258 Times in 6,529 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, but I'm a bit blood thirsty. I see no need to keep proven rapists and murderers alive for the rest of their lives while they cost honest, hard working citizens money to keep them there.
And you trust the system in India, and elsewhere, never to catch the wrong person, ever? Or is it OK to kill a low number of innocent people in order to save money by killing the guilty? "proven rapist" - hah, cloud cuckoo land. "hard working citizens money" - phew, they won't use any of my money then. "I'm a bit blood thirsty" - you should be locked up
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #84  
Old 13.09.2013, 18:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Gallen Kanton
Posts: 640
Groaned at 143 Times in 97 Posts
Thanked 1,107 Times in 506 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
The issue here is that many rape cases are clearly not black and white. Often its someone saying that there was rape where the other party may say there that there was consent. How do you prove one or the other? Take the Kachelmann case for example. How would you judge? If it is rape there must be punishment, but should that be 25 years as for killing someone? So if Kachelmann was not guilty of rape, should they now send the women who accused him for 25 years to jail? REALLY?

The world is not black and white and this is coming from a guy that was often accused of being rather harsh with my judgment
The punishment for a proven malicious accusation of rape should be the same as the punishment for rape itself. if a proven rapist is given 25 years, then a proven liar about rape should be given the same. In both cases, an innocent persons life is ruined.

In any case, the question wasnt concening the body of proof one way or the other, it was concerning the seriousness of one crime compared to another.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 13.09.2013, 18:06
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 9,686
Groaned at 73 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 14,740 Times in 5,752 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
And you trust the system in India, and elsewhere, never to catch the wrong person, ever? Or is it OK to kill a low number of innocent people in order to save money by killing the guilty? "proven rapist" - hah, cloud cuckoo land. "hard working citizens money" - phew, they won't use any of my money then. "I'm a bit blood thirsty" - you should be locked up
It's interesting that those countries that have the harshest, cruellest punishments (death sentence and thousand-year prison sentences for example) have the most f**ked up judicial systems.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #86  
Old 13.09.2013, 18:50
429's Avatar
429 429 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: near Frauenfeld
Posts: 111
Groaned at 10 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 69 Times in 38 Posts
429 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Indian rape case.

I don't know the different systems, but this makes you wonder: Can it really be that there are 10 times more criminals in the US than in European countries?
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 13.09.2013, 19:16
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,510
Groaned at 170 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,643 Times in 5,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
I don't know the different systems, but this makes you wonder: Can it really be that there are 10 times more criminals in the US than in European countries?
Yes, because it's that much bigger than any European country. You'd need to compare EU as a whole against it to get a more accurate figure is my guess. Using the figures from your link France, Germany, England, Scotland and Wales combined gives you a total of 475 per 100,000 so add the rest of the EU and it'll be pretty close or even above the US figure.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 13.09.2013, 19:23
herc82's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,625
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 973 Times in 604 Posts
herc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
Yes, because it's that much bigger than any European country. You'd need to compare EU as a whole against it to get a more accurate figure is my guess. Using the figures from your link France, Germany, England, Scotland and Wales combined gives you a total of 475 per 100,000 so add the rest of the EU and it'll be pretty close or even above the US figure.
Not sure if joking... anyway, you should definitely run for office! Such a creative way of interpreting statistics practically begs for a highly paid seat on some council or other
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank herc82 for this useful post:
  #89  
Old 13.09.2013, 19:42
drmom's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in SG
Posts: 2,333
Groaned at 13 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,181 Times in 1,045 Posts
drmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
Yes, because it's that much bigger than any European country. You'd need to compare EU as a whole against it to get a more accurate figure is my guess. Using the figures from your link France, Germany, England, Scotland and Wales combined gives you a total of 475 per 100,000 so add the rest of the EU and it'll be pretty close or even above the US figure.
Except it's prisoners per 100,000 of population, so it's already taken into account.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 13.09.2013, 20:33
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Brooklyn, USA
Posts: 103
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 83 Times in 32 Posts
BKinTheHouse has earned some respectBKinTheHouse has earned some respect
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
I don't know the different systems, but this makes you wonder: Can it really be that there are 10 times more criminals in the US than in European countries?
If European countries incarcerated drug users and sellers at the same rate that the US does, the differential would narrow quite a bit. European jails would be filled with cocaine/ecstasy user/sellers.

According to this data, Guardian - World Drugs use map
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 13.09.2013, 20:39
Wallabies's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 3,199
Groaned at 317 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 3,292 Times in 1,564 Posts
Wallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
I don't know the different systems, but this makes you wonder: Can it really be that there are 10 times more criminals in the US than in European countries?
Yes
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 14.09.2013, 00:04
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 559
Groaned at 12 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 193 Times in 135 Posts
minimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeableminimimi is considered knowledgeable
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
And you trust the system in India, and elsewhere, never to catch the wrong person, ever? Or is it OK to kill a low number of innocent people in order to save money by killing the guilty? "proven rapist" - hah, cloud cuckoo land. "hard working citizens money" - phew, they won't use any of my money then. "I'm a bit blood thirsty" - you should be locked up
Hmm... this is indeed a difficult dilemma and I am sure that there are looots of innocent people behind bars or worse all around the world. Hence I think that false accusation should get at least the same punishment as the crime itself. It is in accordance with eye for an eye - you are capable of inflicting one damage to another human, then you may get it as well.

I am not a judge/lawyer or anything similar. But I believe in deterrence that may come in at least two forms: 1. condemnation by society 2. high punishments. I believe both are insufficient in our "Western" society today

Generally I consider many forms of torture to be worse than killing, hence I would vote for a death sentence for a rape. Surely there are tones of worse crimes, but as there is exists no worst crime, a border should be drawn somewhere.

p.s. I also believe that there are clearer and less clearer cases. And unfortunately a judge is only a human and I know even instances when judges don't know the laws well
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank minimimi for this useful post:
  #93  
Old 14.09.2013, 09:09
429's Avatar
429 429 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: near Frauenfeld
Posts: 111
Groaned at 10 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 69 Times in 38 Posts
429 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
If European countries incarcerated drug users and sellers at the same rate that the US does, the differential would narrow quite a bit. European jails would be filled with cocaine/ecstasy user/sellers.

According to this data, Guardian - World Drugs use map
If I read this correctly then we simply have roughly the same rate of drug dealers and users. I guess we probably also have a similar rate of other crimes. So not sure what this is meant to prove.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 14.09.2013, 10:23
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 10,966
Groaned at 542 Times in 342 Posts
Thanked 10,568 Times in 5,406 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

This thread is about the bus rape in India. Why are you talking about drug crime in Europe?
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 02.03.2015, 16:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,462
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,232 Times in 1,226 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...interview.html


Just how representative of the Indian society this view is is another question.
But it's quite shocking nevertheless.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #96  
Old 02.03.2015, 17:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,318
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...interview.html


Just how representative of the Indian society this view is is another question.
But it's quite shocking nevertheless.
There seems to be just no hope for a society where the defence lawyer can openly state this!

"The lawyers who defended the gang in court express similarly extreme views about women who venture out at night. In a previous televised interview, lawyer AP Singh said: "If my daughter or sister engaged in pre-marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse, and in front of my entire family, I would put petrol on her and set her alight."

Barbarians of the worst sort defending more barbarians?!
And allowed to "practice law"?
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #97  
Old 02.03.2015, 17:45
Clumsy Maman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 701
Groaned at 9 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 934 Times in 420 Posts
Clumsy Maman has a reputation beyond reputeClumsy Maman has a reputation beyond reputeClumsy Maman has a reputation beyond reputeClumsy Maman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Quote:
View Post
Barbarians of the worst sort defending more barbarians?!
You beat me to it; I was just about to copy that paragraph here, as it is so shocking. This article just shows that the hatred towards women is across the social strata (and caste system) and has nothing to do with how educated someone could be!

A sad reflection of the subcontinent, methinks!
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Clumsy Maman for this useful post:
  #98  
Old 03.03.2015, 17:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,033
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,757 Times in 1,944 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

India has about 1.3 billion inhabitants. The article mentions just a few and certainly doesn't claim for them to be representative for the population.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #99  
Old 03.03.2015, 18:23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: lausanne
Posts: 73
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 71 Times in 32 Posts
Wander-Thirst has earned some respectWander-Thirst has earned some respect
Re: Indian rape case.

As someone has rightly said "Any truism about India can be immediately contradicted by another truism about India"

Nevertheless it makes my blood boil every time I come across such views...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wander-Thirst for this useful post:
  #100  
Old 03.03.2015, 20:04
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 10,966
Groaned at 542 Times in 342 Posts
Thanked 10,568 Times in 5,406 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indian rape case.

Leslee Udwin's film, India's Daughter, will be broadcast on Storyville on BBC Four TV.

The film is about this terrible crime, it will be shown on BBC-4, Sunday March 8th at 11pm Swiss time.

It will be shown in India on NDTV at 21:00 local time.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31698154
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale (Zurich) iPhone 4/4s case, iPhone 3G/3Gs case, and iPad cover jamjelly Items for sale 7 31.10.2012 17:22
Rape Jokes Are Not Funny Peg A General off-topic 165 03.03.2012 20:36
Attempted rape in Zug whitecat74 Swiss politics/news 50 08.10.2011 16:19
Bangladesh evidence of attempted rape Ittigen International affairs/politics 6 31.05.2011 18:31
About iphone4 case program(free case) typostylist TV/internet/telephone 1 11.12.2010 11:28


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0