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Old 06.01.2013, 09:05
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Idle No More: other side of the coin.

Since few days, we can read in papers all over the world about this protest Theresa Spencer is doing in a hunger strike (no so much) way to get to meet Prime Minister Steven Harper. The protest movement is getting bigger and bigger each week in support of Attawapiskat's First Nation's members.

I want to provide you some interesting links to help you build your own opinion if you have been following the Medea's coverage.

There are good opinionated articles from both pro and con of this protest from both camps.

CHELSEA VOWEL, Metis from Lac Ste Anne, Alberta gives a lot of informations and links.

PETER WORTHINGTON on his straight talk, provide an other opinion and view of the situation.

These are just opinions on the situation and a point to start with.
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Old 06.01.2013, 09:31
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

Maybe it would help to start the discussion, if as thread starter, you give your opinion?
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Old 06.01.2013, 09:49
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

I think the time is coming where we have to answer for the effects of colonisation.

In Australia we have the same problem. A very shameful history indeed. The English basically came in, raped, pillaged, took the children away from their families and more or less the ones that weren't enslaved were driven out of their territories where their tribes had been living for the last 60 000 years !!!

It's a serious issue and true reconciliation needs to be made in my opinion.
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Old 06.01.2013, 11:40
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

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Since few days, we can read in papers all over the world about this protest Theresa Spencer is doing in a hunger strike (no so much) way to get to meet Prime Minister Steven Harper. The protest movement is getting bigger and bigger each week in support of Attawapiskat's First Nation's members.

I want to provide you some interesting links to help you build your own opinion if you have been following the Medea's coverage.

There are good opinionated articles from both pro and con of this protest from both camps.

CHELSEA VOWEL, Metis from Lac Ste Anne, Alberta gives a lot of informations and links.

PETER WORTHINGTON on his straight talk, provide an other opinion and view of the situation.

These are just opinions on the situation and a point to start with.
wow! sun news! that's like Rupert Murdoch's tabloids.

right wing point of view.

I grew up with First Nations people. I know how difficult their situation is.

I have seen reservations where the drinking water couldn't be drunk.

I also know that Harper's bill to remove ecological protection from waterways is evil.

And to go on about someone's weight, when they are trying to improve the environment, and the plight of their people is just plain nasty and petty (in the second link you provide)
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Old 13.01.2013, 13:20
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

Yes, there is always a second side. i'm a first nation from canada. a bit about myself. i'm from a big family (4 brothers+4sisters), grew up on the reserve & also a small village nearby with my gran. so i know how difficult it is. it wasn't just with the first nations in canada, but other parts (like australia has been mentioned). growing up on the reserve is hard and moving away is even harder. for example, my mom doesn't like being away for so long. as on the other hand some ppl find it easier. i didn't want that lifestyle. i have been living in switzerland with my husband for the last 2 1/2 years now. the education and life is horrible on the reserves. it takes a lot of courage to move away from family. some of the villages/towns nearby aren't so much better either. but trying to convince my mom to move off the reserve to give my siblings a better education is to hard for her to leave a security type blanket (if that makes sense?). so now i can only talk to my siblings and tell them to get the best education they can and see the world. there's more world than just the reserve. well enough of me rambling on about ''nothing'' but good to see first nations in the media.....
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Old 13.01.2013, 13:25
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

Reserves were a very bad idea from the beginning. It is time things change. Same about the silence on the way some chief manage the money they receive from the government and the little the community actually see from it.
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Old 13.01.2013, 13:35
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

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Reserves were a very bad idea from the beginning. It is time things change. Same about the silence on the way some chief manage the money they receive from the government and the little the community actually see from it.
Reserves were a way to marker off land, that people who first lived there thought couldn't be owned, and put people to land that was the least of value. Bad idea for the people that had to live there, great idea for those who scammed off of them.

You don't see Manhattan being given back anytime soon do you?
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Old 13.01.2013, 14:46
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

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Reserves were a way to marker off land, that people who first lived there thought couldn't be owned, and put people to land that was the least of value. Bad idea for the people that had to live there, great idea for those who scammed off of them.

You don't see Manhattan being given back anytime soon do you?
Did you ever visit a reserve? I did. Wemotaci is a reserve for Atikamekw who lives in north Quebec. It's a sad place to bring up kids. As much as I understand the wishes to keep the culture alive, I do think it is time to integrate more the First Nations into the populations. Considering that in 2025, Canada expect to have 1/4 of the citizens to be from foreign background, everyone should be an equal part of the country on the same basis. Canada changed, Canadians changed, it is time the First Nation changes too. Without any special treatments nor discriminations based on old treaties that are from on other times, other situations and conditions.
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Old 13.01.2013, 15:06
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

The poverty that exists in some reserves is 3rd world; the problem is when some reserves are given millions by the government to improve the standards of living, at times much of the money is spent cannot be accounted for. When much of the money cannot be accounted for, the government appoints an official to supervise the band council (kind of like a municipal council on a reserve), many First Nations do not like when there is an official from the federal government overseeing things on the reserve as it is seen by some as a throw-back to the old days.


The amount of trauma on reserves is crazy.

For those of you here that are not from North America, watch this youtube video of Alaska State Troopers (Alaska Gendarmerie). They interview a Native Village Public Safety Officer...

(Village Public Safety Officers in Alaska are like assistant police officers who work for the Native local governments and deal with stuff until the Troopers get there)

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Old 13.01.2013, 16:20
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

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Did you ever visit a reserve? I did. Wemotaci is a reserve for Atikamekw who lives in north Quebec. It's a sad place to bring up kids. As much as I understand the wishes to keep the culture alive, I do think it is time to integrate more the First Nations into the populations. Considering that in 2025, Canada expect to have 1/4 of the citizens to be from foreign background, everyone should be an equal part of the country on the same basis. Canada changed, Canadians changed, it is time the First Nation changes too. Without any special treatments nor discriminations based on old treaties that are from on other times, other situations and conditions.
I am sick and tired of white people saying this as they have had all of the benefits and renegued on their treaty obligations, only they don't see it that way. They only see the few dollars status "Indians" get, while white people have all the land that used to belong to someone else. Grow up white people! YOU are not the victims. This is especially bad with French Canadians, who are discriminated against by other Canadians, yet they try to put their boot on the First Nations.
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Old 13.01.2013, 16:35
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

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I am sick and tired of white people saying this as they have had all of the benefits and renegued on their treaty obligations, only they don't see it that way. They only see the few dollars status "Indians" get, while white people have all the land that used to belong to someone else. Grow up white people! YOU are not the victims. This is especially bad with French Canadians, who are discriminated against by other Canadians, yet they try to put their boot on the First Nations.
Well, I am not totally "white" as my mom side is a mix of Indian, French and Spanish blood. My uncle got some benefices from the Indian blood we have but I don't see the need to get any of these benefices for myself.

Talk about talking without knowing...
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Old 13.01.2013, 16:39
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

Talk about talking without knowing, your entire thread. You sound like these red necks in the USA who want to get rid of affirmative action because their great-great-great-grand-pappy spoke Spanish or something.

Equality? There is no equality in Canada, lady.

First Nations people are more than 10 times more present in the prison population than in the general population

They have third world levels of sickness, and shortened life expectancy.
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Old 13.01.2013, 16:57
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

The movement is really gaining momentum but is also becoming increasingly polarizing as one of the unintended outcomes (unless you believe in purposeful media spinning by the Canadian government) is that it is equally shining a light on the problem of band leadership corruption. In addition, some First Nations supporters are going beyond Chief Spence's example of peaceful protest to form highly disruptive and dangerous transport blockades. This really detracts from the central issues of the movement itself and is counterproductive (IMHO). I do believe, however, that it is snowballing to a point where action (hopefully productive and in the direction of fulfilling its responsibilities) by the government is inevitable.

Last edited by M_McPoyle; 13.01.2013 at 17:26. Reason: a few added bits of info
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Old 13.01.2013, 17:01
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

If you want a concise and brief overview of what the First Nations are demanding (apart from a meeting with the Governor General and the Prime Minister at the same time) here is a letter from the National Chief to the Prime Minister dated January 11th.

http://www.afn.ca/uploads/files/13-0...o_pm_final.pdf
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Old 13.01.2013, 17:05
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

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Did you ever visit a reserve? I did. Wemotaci is a reserve for Atikamekw who lives in north Quebec. It's a sad place to bring up kids. As much as I understand the wishes to keep the culture alive, I do think it is time to integrate more the First Nations into the populations. Considering that in 2025, Canada expect to have 1/4 of the citizens to be from foreign background, everyone should be an equal part of the country on the same basis. Canada changed, Canadians changed, it is time the First Nation changes too. Without any special treatments nor discriminations based on old treaties that are from on other times, other situations and conditions.
I worked on one. In the US. Which is strange because my rights as an American don't exist there. I am not pro reservation at all. I think you may have mis interpreted me.
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Old 13.01.2013, 17:30
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I am sick and tired of white people saying this as they have had all of the benefits and renegued on their treaty obligations, only they don't see it that way. They only see the few dollars status "Indians" get, while white people have all the land that used to belong to someone else. Grow up white people! YOU are not the victims. This is especially bad with French Canadians, who are discriminated against by other Canadians, yet they try to put their boot on the First Nations.


Few dollars? Last I heard it should amount to nearly 40k/year per person, not including the tax exemption free education and healthcare. Does every member get to see that full value? Absolutely not, but that's an another issue. For reference, the gdp/ capita in Canada is roughly 41k for 2011.

And "white people"!? Get off your high horse you racist twit - war is unfortunately a universal human trait, not something exclusive to "white people". Take a good read through the history of the world and you'll see this isn't unique.

I actually also grew up on a reserve, though I'm not native. I saw enough violence, rape, incest and corruption to kill off any form of optimism for the reserves. It's a bad deal, yes, but the saddest part is that they'll be the ones to drive themselves to extinction. Whether it's liked or not, the cold reality is that integration and adaptation to reality is the only alternative to losing the culture to time altogether.
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Old 13.01.2013, 17:40
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

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Talk about talking without knowing, your entire thread. You sound like these red necks in the USA who want to get rid of affirmative action because their great-great-great-grand-pappy spoke Spanish or something.

Equality? There is no equality in Canada, lady.

First Nations people are more than 10 times more present in the prison population than in the general population

They have third world levels of sickness, and shortened life expectancy.
Thanks for the rep calling me racist. I think you don't know how to read as obviously I am pro equalities for all people in Canada.

I am wondering how you can argue and defend your "being racist" accusations.
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Old 13.01.2013, 17:57
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

Taking away the little money people get from the government to make them "equal" is not a good thing It is a racist thing.

It is what racists in the USA do to African-Americans and then they don't know why people call them racist.
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Old 13.01.2013, 18:05
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

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Taking away the little money people get from the government to make them "equal" is not a good thing It is a racist thing.

It is what racists in the USA do to African-Americans and then they don't know why people call them racist.
Well, this is exactly why I now know you didn't understand this topic. The government gives lots of money to the First Nations but little actually reach the population and is "lost" somewhere. The money should go to build houses, renovate houses, to schools, social help and for a better wellbeing of the communities. This is what was expected. Sadly, some people made very bad decisions and use of this money and people are still suffering in very bad conditions.

Many of the First Nations representants refuse to tell where the money goes and how they are using it which isn't fair for the tax payers and the populations waiting for it.
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Old 13.01.2013, 18:10
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Re: Idle No More: other side of the coin.

Perhaps the government could just write off the funds as rent.
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