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  #41  
Old 11.02.2013, 14:31
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Apologies to our Romanian members, as this is nothing personal, but ....... but it appears that criminal gangs have been passing off horsemeat as beef for processed meat products - that may (or may not) have originated from Romania, due to a new law banning horse-drawn carts and wagons from the streets of Romania ...... resulting in too many old nags.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21401111
The old title was really not acceptable! "The Romanians" were most probably as surprised about this as anyone else!

This is not about nationality, but, as it currently looks like, about greedy people who endanger the health of other people for a quick buck. This happens everywhere and this is what we should focus on. Food scandals in Europe during the last years:

And these are only examples where there is a high chance that somebody did endanger others on purpose. Let's not even talk about accidental contamination or if "legal" food is always that healthy.
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  #42  
Old 11.02.2013, 14:32
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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That's not the point and you know it.

As for 'wanting' these products, they are all some customers can afford & they still have the same rights as anyone to know what they are made of - If they buy a product sold as containing beef, then they should be able to have faith in the system that that is what they are buying - just as I have faith in you that the farmhouse cheddar that I buy from you isn't just repackaged budget mild.

Blaming customers is ridiculous & frankly, I'd have expected better from you of all people.
Again, it isn't all they can afford, it's all they choose to buy. There are plenty of cheaper and healthier options that don't really take all that much more time and effort to make, just a little planning.

I too blame customers, without their demand, these products wouldn't exist.
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  #43  
Old 11.02.2013, 14:39
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

I think it all comes down to priorities, and how messed up they've become. It is not terribly expensive to cook fresh every day, and it doesn't take that much time. I think we're sending the wrong message to our kids when we eat nothing but prepared garbage day in and day out. We're basically telling them that nutrition and taking time for ourselves is unimportant.
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  #44  
Old 11.02.2013, 14:40
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Again, it isn't all they can afford, it's all they choose to buy. There are plenty of cheaper and healthier options that don't really take all that much more time and effort to make, just a little planning.

I too blame customers, without their demand, these products wouldn't exist.
While I agree that there might be more sensible things to buy for your kids, that stuff was not correctly labeled. If I buy food in a box that says the main ingredient is "paper" I am entitled to have paper in it, regardless if this is a healthy or not.
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Old 11.02.2013, 14:40
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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At the end of the day if some consumers want burgers and frozen pasta meals for pennies the supermarkets and industrial food producers will buy ingredients, or sub contract production, to the lowest bidder. These lowest bidders then have to try to make a profit and it will be very tempting for them, or more importantly, their suppliers, to cut corners or to not ask too many questions......

And these consumers who want these products at ridiculously low prices, what do they think goes into them? A bit of horse meat could well be the best bit of them!
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Again, it isn't all they can afford, it's all they choose to buy. There are plenty of cheaper and healthier options that don't really take all that much more time and effort to make, just a little planning.

I too blame customers, without their demand, these products wouldn't exist.
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  #46  
Old 11.02.2013, 14:42
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

If you're middle class, have time to cook, know how to cook and can afford fresh produce then of course you can make fresh lasagnes.

Why do you think cheap frozen meals are popular amongst poorer people? Because they're cheap, easy and taste OK.
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  #47  
Old 11.02.2013, 14:44
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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£10 to £15 - where on earth do you get those figures??? Cooking from fresh, if you are a bit clever about it - always costs much less and you know what goes in! When kids were young I made lasagna or bolognese with less than 1 pound of mincemeat, and added lots of veg to bulk up, including half a cup of small lentils and always had plenty left over for baked potatoes the next day. And NO it does not take ages to cook. Same for stews, homemade 'burgers' (always added some oats and an egg to go further too) takes minutes to make. Etc, etc. If I am in a hurry I'll make the white sauce for the lasagna with milk and cornflour, adding herbs + seasoning - cheaper and very quick.

Tesco, Lidl, Aldi, sell what the consumer wants. So at the end of the day, the average consumer 'us' I suppose are to blame. If you buy 2 large chickens for a fiver from Tesco, you must have a good inkling that the husbandry, feed, quality is rubbish.

So many here complain at the price of Swiss meat- and yes, as a Brit (Swiss too) retired here, it irks at times - but perhaps now some people will begin to understand why. Much much rather eat less meat of good quality, husbandry, no antibiotics and additive, short transport, good feeds, etc - and be clever at making it go further. Boil the chicken carcass with veg to make stock to risotto the next day, etc. My daughter and sil both work VERY full time, and yet manage to find the time to feed their kids good quality food. Int he UK, the 2 for 1 offers result in huge waste, as people can't resist them- and then don't pre-cook/freeze, so end up throwing away tons of it. I once went to Tesco and bought a big bag of tangerines- when I got to the till the cashier said 'it is 2 for 1, go and get another bag' - and couldn't understand when I said 'there is only 2 of us so it will go off and be wasted'. Other times I did take up 2 for 1 and either cooked/froze or dropped the other bag at a friend's who has children.
A tray of beef lasagne (to feed a family of 4) with fresh veg, sauce, pasta etc can easily cost £10-15 to make.¨
¨
EDIT: I have just done a quick calculation based on Tesco's online prices and Gordon Ramsey's lasagne al forno and for the mince, carrots, garlic, pasta, tomatoes, milk the price is £8.81. This excludes : 2 tbsp olive oil. ½ large onion, peeled .2 pinches dried oregano.1 tbsp tomato pureé. 1 tbsp Worcestershire sauce. 1 bay leaf. 30ml (2 tbsp) red wine. Salt and freshly ground black pepper.25g butter. 25g flour. Pinch of ground nutmeg.60g cheddar cheese

Last edited by MidfieldGeneral; 11.02.2013 at 15:00.
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  #48  
Old 11.02.2013, 14:56
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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And NO it does not take ages to cook.
No, but about three hours to do it right (which is why we make it the night before.

Oh, and real bolognese contains beef, pork, and chicken livers, as well as milk!

Tom
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Old 11.02.2013, 14:56
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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A tray of beef lasagne (to feed a family of 4) with fresh veg, sauce, pasta etc can easily cost £10-15 to make.
While I don't think that's the case (I could make a fresh lasagna for 4 people here in Switzerland for less than £15), why do they have to eat Lasagne when there are a few thousand other, cheaper, healthier options that fit into their budget? Like I said, you don't have to, nor should you, eat meat every day. I like lobster too, and good lobster is prohibitively expensive, so I eat other stuff even though I could probably purchase a cheap canned south asian shipping harbor mud lobster* to eat for dinner every night of the week, despite it tasting worse, likely being full of horrid chemicals, and likely to contain some non-mud lobster by product I didn't ask for.

*there is no such lobster


Maybe you should take the 30 seconds required to read the posts I responded to before responding. Just a thought...

I think if something is labeled "beef" of course you should get "beef", however, a healthy dose of skepticism never hurts, and if something is too good to be true (i.e. extremely cheap), it probably is.
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Old 11.02.2013, 14:56
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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A tray of beef lasagne (to feed a family of 4) with fresh veg, sauce, pasta etc can easily cost £10-15 to make.
You don't cook much for yourself, do you?

My recipe for lasagne uses ricotta cheese instead of bechamel, but I guess a bechamel sauce would be even cheaper. I've taken the liberty of assuming you've got some dried spices in the house and haven't costed in a pinch of oregano, salt and pepper.

I'll point out that I'm not proposing the world's most gourmet lasagne, but this is certainly miles better than the frozen crap that's being peddled by the big superstores.



That's a lot of change from 15 quid...

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Old 11.02.2013, 14:58
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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A tray of beef lasagne (to feed a family of 4) with fresh veg, sauce, pasta etc can easily cost £10-15 to make.
Or CHF 10 if you make it here.

And, other than a carrot and a rib of celery, exactly what veg are you adding?

Tom
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  #52  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:00
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Again, it isn't all they can afford, it's all they choose to buy. There are plenty of cheaper and healthier options that don't really take all that much more time and effort to make, just a little planning.

I too blame customers, without their demand, these products wouldn't exist.
The customers or the marketing folk?
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Old 11.02.2013, 15:00
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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I like lobster too, and good lobster is prohibitively expensive
No, I regularly get live ones in Italy for EUR 32/kg.

Quite reasonable.

Tom
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Old 11.02.2013, 15:03
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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No, I regularly get live ones in Italy for EUR 32/kg.

Quite reasonable.

Tom
One man's prohibitively expensive is another man's reasonable.

Although, as a fellow New Englander, I can't in any way fault your taste in lobsters!
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Old 11.02.2013, 15:10
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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You don't cook much for yourself, do you?

My recipe for lasagne uses ricotta cheese instead of bechamel, but I guess a bechamel sauce would be even cheaper. I've taken the liberty of assuming you've got some dried spices in the house and haven't costed in a pinch of oregano, salt and pepper.

I'll point out that I'm not proposing the world's most gourmet lasagne, but this is certainly miles better than the frozen crap that's being peddled by the big superstores.



That's a lot of change from 15 quid...

I see you're being disingenuous. I said £10-£15. Plus by quoting the "everyday" range which is the Tesco budget range you name products which are not dissimilar to the quality going into cheap frozen foods and Findus products.
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Old 11.02.2013, 15:11
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Or CHF 10 if you make it here.

And, other than a carrot and a rib of celery, exactly what veg are you adding?

Tom
How much does 750g of minced beef cost in Coop?
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Old 11.02.2013, 15:14
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

I'm going to stand outside SBB and give away free drinks of orange jiuce.

Actually, it'll just be a mix of arsenic and cyanide.

Stupid, lazy, poor people. What do they expect for free.
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Old 11.02.2013, 15:15
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Or CHF 10 if you make it here.

And, other than a carrot and a rib of celery, exactly what veg are you adding?

Tom
¨

this is what I make but with double the beef:

http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...lasagne-recipe
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Old 11.02.2013, 15:15
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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due to a new law banning horse-drawn carts and wagons from the streets of Romania ...... resulting in too many old nags.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21401111
Why are they being banned? Is this something that ia to happen quicly, or over a period of time? Is an alternative being offered for those who cannot afford alternative transport.

Why do developing countries still see a need to ban cheaper, alternative transport means , in favour of gas guzzling cars and trucks? ( another example being all the bans on bicycles in busy, polluted cities of China)

Is faster always better? Not to mention the fact that it seems that in this case the lawmakers have not considered the results of making the animals redundent - A working horse that is needed for incoe will be looked after, but a lot of people are not going to be wanting to keep one just as a pet.
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Old 11.02.2013, 15:16
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Again, it isn't all they can afford, it's all they choose to buy. There are plenty of cheaper and healthier options that don't really take all that much more time and effort to make, just a little planning.

I too blame customers, without their demand, these products wouldn't exist.
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Maybe you should take the 30 seconds required to read the posts I responded to before responding. Just a thought...

I think if something is labeled "beef" of course you should get "beef", however, a healthy dose of skepticism never hurts, and if something is too good to be true (i.e. extremely cheap), it probably is.
I took longer than 30 secs, I had to to see if what I was reading was right.

So its the customers fault they are eating Dobin instead of Daisy.
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