Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:17
Tim8803's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 418
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 445 Times in 204 Posts
Tim8803 has earned the respect of manyTim8803 has earned the respect of manyTim8803 has earned the respect of many
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
Oh, and real bolognese contains beef, pork, and chicken livers, as well as milk!

Tom
But now I'm confused... ...should this be beef with or without horse???
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tim8803 for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:19
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy McModface
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,189
Groaned at 50 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 8,043 Times in 2,943 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
Why do developing countries still see a need to ban cheaper, alternative transport means , in favour of gas guzzling cars and trucks?
I was under the impression that cars are "greener" than horses. (Though I may have just been affected by corporate propaganda)
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:20
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 54 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 2,572 Times in 1,083 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

For me the fault lies with the supermarkets and the food manufacturers selling poor and inaccurately labelled products, not with the people buying the products in good faith. The fact that the people who tend to buy these cheaper products tend to be poorer and possibly less able to cook should not absolve the supermarkets and food manufacturers from their responsibility
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank MidfieldGeneral for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:20
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,167 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
That's not the point and you know it.

As for 'wanting' these products, they are all some customers can afford
People in the U.K. spend about 10% of their earnings on food. It used to be 40%.

A lot of people don't want quality any more and certainly aren't willing to pay for it.

Even if they do get 100% beef in their lasagne, are they so naive that they think, for the price they pay, that they're getting a nice piece of beef ground up by some happy local butcher.

This is industrial cooking and the end product shows it.


Quote:
View Post
- just as I have faith in you that the farmhouse cheddar that I buy from you isn't just repackaged budget mild.
Most people would easily be able to tell the difference.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
This user groans at Tom1234 for this post:
  #65  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:22
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
¨

this is what I make but with double the beef:

http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...lasagne-recipe
LOL - if you want to make good quality family meals - don't follow TV Chefs' recipes - and especially do NOT double the beef. No wonder it costs so much. As said, add some lentils to make it go further- and to cut cost, time and calories, make the white sauce with milk and cornflour + herbs/seasoning. (I know it will make Tom go green - but it is much simpler and quicker and cuts calories as well as cost- and honestly you can't tell the difference).

Last edited by Odile; 11.02.2013 at 15:37.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:23
Village Idiot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 3,341
Groaned at 34 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 6,246 Times in 1,996 Posts
Village Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
I see you're being disingenuous. I said £10-£15. Plus by quoting the "everyday" range which is the Tesco budget range you name products which are not dissimilar to the quality going into cheap frozen foods and Findus products.
I have a lot more faith that creating my own dish using 'everyday' products still produces a far superior result than what I can buy.

The beef is fresh mince, not mechanically-recovered and pureed offcuts. Granted, it's not organic, grass-fed beef, but neither is it 'pink slime'.

The other products are fresh and do not contain additives.

I can control the amount of salt and other flavour enhancers.

I'd be far happier serving my family something made from the ingredients above than from a pre-packaged dish.

Compare that to the ingredient list on the average frozen lasagne:

Water,Beef (13%) ,Diced Tomatoes (Tomatoes, Tomato Juice, Salt, Firming Agent - Calcium Chloride) ,Lasagne (9%, Durum Wheat Semolina, Water, Egg, Rice Flour) ,Concentrated Tomato Puree ,Onions ,Mushrooms ,Red Wine ,Cheddar Cheese (2%) ,Modified Tapioca Starch ,Skimmed Milk Powder ,Milk ,Modified Maize Starch ,Whipping Cream ,Basil & Garlic Blend (Basil, Vegetable Oil, Garlic Puree, Milk, Oregano, Dextrose, Salt, Red Chillies) ,Garlic ,Cheese ,Salt ,Flavourings (contain Milk, Smoke Flavouring) ,Sugar ,Pecorino Cheese ,Thyme ,Basil ,Yeast Extract (contains Barley) ,Black Pepper ,Spice Extract
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Village Idiot for this useful post:
This user groans at Village Idiot for this post:
  #67  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:23
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,079
Groaned at 924 Times in 720 Posts
Thanked 19,607 Times in 9,434 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
How much does 750g of minced beef cost in Coop?
Don't know, I usually get it at Denner, or grind my own. At Denner, CHF 4.50 for 500g mix beef/pork.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:26
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,079
Groaned at 924 Times in 720 Posts
Thanked 19,607 Times in 9,434 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
make the white sauce with milk and cornflour


Milk, butter, flour!

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:29
Tim8803's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 418
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 445 Times in 204 Posts
Tim8803 has earned the respect of manyTim8803 has earned the respect of manyTim8803 has earned the respect of many
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tim8803 for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:31
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

In Switzerland we pay 30-40% more (compared to price of beef) to have horse meat.

In the UK you have it for the same price! It's a bargain!

Horse is by far better meat for you than any other red meat.

I don't see what's the problem?!
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank idefix for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at idefix for this post:
  #71  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
For me the fault lies with the supermarkets and the food manufacturers selling poor and inaccurately labelled products, not with the people buying the products in good faith. The fact that the people who tend to buy these cheaper products tend to be poorer and possibly less able to cook should not absolve the supermarkets and food manufacturers from their responsibility
Absolutely, I agree totally that labeling should be clear and to be trusted. And yet, we as customers also have our role to play. If we demand very cheap food and can't be bothered to prepare meals ourselves, then we somehow must accept that quality would go down. Be it made with beef or horse. Fraud was clearly committed, and not just in Bulgaria, but also in Ireland, and with links to large distributors in France and many other European countries. The web is incredibly complicated. One other aspect is that some of those horses came from non-checked sources, and may well have been unfit for consumption- and had no history and vet checks at all. Idefix - I agree that the species of animal is irrelevant to quality - but in this case, the horses were from possible dubious source, and possibly unfit for human consumption).

Totally agree too that it is unfair to blame the 'Rumanians' - but the link with 'some' Romanians with maffia links do seem clear- facts can;t be denied. It also seems that some of those links are via 'some' Rumanian ex-pats in France and elsewhere. Let's wait for all the facts to come out- it will take time. If it makes people think about what they eat a bit more - great. Why do 'poor' people in Italy, Spain or Switzerland, etc, cook from scratch with healthy but simple ingredients, whilst very many Brits seem somehow unable to do so? Why is it that in many countries, cooking from scratch is the normal thing to do, poor or middle-class? Why is it that only in the UK is cooking from scratch seen as middle-class? All kids are taught to cook basic dishes with simple quality ingredients in schools in the UK - it certainly is in the 4 schools I taught at and the ones my girls attended (state comprehensives).

Serious question - any answers? It seems the more tv programmes on cooking there is on telly, the least people actually cook themselves?

Last edited by Odile; 11.02.2013 at 16:03.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
This user groans at Odile for this post:
  #72  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:34
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 54 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 2,572 Times in 1,083 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
LOL - if you want to make good quality family meals - don't follow TV Chefs' recipes - and especially do NOT double the beef. No wonder it costs so much. As said, add some lentils to make it go further- man to cut cost, time and calories, make the white sauce with milk and cornflour + herbs/seasoning.
LOL, you're not convincing me of your cooking skills by saying I should add lentils to my beef lasagne.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MidfieldGeneral for this useful post:
  #73  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:37
Peg A's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 4,435
Groaned at 163 Times in 128 Posts
Thanked 5,428 Times in 2,510 Posts
Peg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
Quote:
View Post
You don't cook much for yourself, do you?

My recipe for lasagne uses ricotta cheese instead of bechamel, but I guess a bechamel sauce would be even cheaper. I've taken the liberty of assuming you've got some dried spices in the house and haven't costed in a pinch of oregano, salt and pepper.

I'll point out that I'm not proposing the world's most gourmet lasagne, but this is certainly miles better than the frozen crap that's being peddled by the big superstores.



That's a lot of change from 15 quid...

I see you're being disingenuous. I said £10-£15. Plus by quoting the "everyday" range which is the Tesco budget range you name products which are not dissimilar to the quality going into cheap frozen foods and Findus products.
Perhaps I am misremembering - but isn't Tesco "Everyday Value" beef among the products which have tested positive for horse meat anyhow? So it's not only practically the same, it is the same.

Further, adding up the grocery bill for what will be actually used to make lasagna from those ingredients, you're (well, I am anyhow) looking at roughly £10.
1x beef, 3x tomatoes, possibly 2x packets of lasagna noodles, 2 or 3x ricotta, definitely 3x moz.

Yes, I'd prefer to cook it all myself - but back in the day when I was working 10+hr shifts, sometimes 6 days a week, those days I get home late, tummy rumbling and I want something more than just a bologna sandwich, you betcha I'll pick up that "value" lasagna.

I think some of y'all are severely disconnected from how the other "half" live. (I would go all "American" on you and say you're disconnected from the other 98%, but I'm sure more of you are closer to my "half" than you'd like to admit)
__________________
The Joys of Opticianry
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Peg A for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:37
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 54 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 2,572 Times in 1,083 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
Absolutely, I agree totally that labeling should be clear and to be trusted. And yet, we as customers also have our role to play. If we demand very cheap food and can't be bothered to prepare meals ourselves, then we somehow must accept that quality would go down. Be it made with beef or horse. Fraud was clearly committed, and not just in Bulgaria, but also in Ireland, and with links to large distributors in France and many other European countries. The web is incredibly complicated. One other aspect is that some of those horses came from non-checked sources, and may well have been unfit for consumption- and had no history and vet checks at all.

Totally agree too that it is unfair to blame the 'Rumanians' - but the link with 'some' Romanians with maffia links do seem clear- facts can;t be denied. It also seems that some of those links are via 'some' Rumanian ex-pats in France and elsewhere. Let's wait for all the facts to come out- it will take time. If it makes people think about what they eat a bit more - great. Why do 'poor' people in Italy, Spain or Switzerland, etc, cook from scratch with healthy but simple ingredients, whilst very many Brits seem somehow unable to do so?
Some people don't demand cheap food, that's often all they can afford or have time to eat

"Why do 'poor' people in Italy, Spain or Switzerland, etc, cook from scratch with healthy but simple ingredients, whilst very many Brits seem somehow unable to do so?"

Is this really true?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MidfieldGeneral for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:39
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 54 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 2,572 Times in 1,083 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps I am misremembering - but isn't Tesco "Everyday Value" beef among the products which have tested positive for horse meat anyhow? So it's not only practically the same, it is the same.

Further, adding up the grocery bill for what will be actually used to make lasagna from those ingredients, you're (well, I am anyhow) looking at roughly £10.
1x beef, 3x tomatoes, possibly 2x packets of lasagna noodles, 2 or 3x ricotta, definitely 3x moz.

Yes, I'd prefer to cook it all myself - but back in the day when I was working 10+hr shifts, sometimes 6 days a week, those days I get home late, tummy rumbling and I want something more than just a bologna sandwich, you betcha I'll pick up that "value" lasagna.

I think some of y'all are severely disconnected from how the other "half" live. (I would go all "American" on you and say you're disconnected from the other 98%, but I'm sure more of you are closer to my "half" than you'd like to admit)
spot on:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...orse-meat.html
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MidfieldGeneral for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:40
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Try it - it adds a lovely texture, makes it go much further without loss of quality - just had some with our baked potatoes, delicious. Try it, honest - I am surprised that you wouldn't consider adding a few lentils, and yet would be prepared to eat dubious and very cheap ready-made lasagna. Perhaps illustrated the point I was trying to make quite well though. Sublime to the ridiculous. I'd say that it is a great cooking skill to know how to make good quality food feed a family at reasonable price.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #77  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:44
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 54 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 2,572 Times in 1,083 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
I have a lot more faith that creating my own dish using 'everyday' products still produces a far superior result than what I can buy.

The beef is fresh mince, not mechanically-recovered and pureed offcuts. Granted, it's not organic, grass-fed beef, but neither is it 'pink slime'.

The other products are fresh and do not contain additives.

I can control the amount of salt and other flavour enhancers.

I'd be far happier serving my family something made from the ingredients above than from a pre-packaged dish.

Compare that to the ingredient list on the average frozen lasagne:

Water,Beef (13%) ,Diced Tomatoes (Tomatoes, Tomato Juice, Salt, Firming Agent - Calcium Chloride) ,Lasagne (9%, Durum Wheat Semolina, Water, Egg, Rice Flour) ,Concentrated Tomato Puree ,Onions ,Mushrooms ,Red Wine ,Cheddar Cheese (2%) ,Modified Tapioca Starch ,Skimmed Milk Powder ,Milk ,Modified Maize Starch ,Whipping Cream ,Basil & Garlic Blend (Basil, Vegetable Oil, Garlic Puree, Milk, Oregano, Dextrose, Salt, Red Chillies) ,Garlic ,Cheese ,Salt ,Flavourings (contain Milk, Smoke Flavouring) ,Sugar ,Pecorino Cheese ,Thyme ,Basil ,Yeast Extract (contains Barley) ,Black Pepper ,Spice Extract

Tesco "everyday" burgers contained horsemeat:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...orse-meat.html
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:44
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,079
Groaned at 924 Times in 720 Posts
Thanked 19,607 Times in 9,434 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
In Switzerland we pay 30-40% more (compared to price of beef) to have horse meat.
Where?

Everywhere around here, it's about 3/4 the price of beef (for the same cut).

Hell, even veal is only 10% more than beef (which is why we eat a lot of veal).

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:45
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,079
Groaned at 924 Times in 720 Posts
Thanked 19,607 Times in 9,434 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
"Why do 'poor' people in Italy, Spain or Switzerland, etc, cook from scratch with healthy but simple ingredients, whilst very many Brits seem somehow unable to do so?"

Is this really true?
In my experience, certainly yes!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 11.02.2013, 15:46
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,145
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,006 Times in 2,455 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Quote:
View Post
In Switzerland we pay 30-40% more (compared to price of beef) to have horse meat.

In the UK you have it for the same price! It's a bargain!

Horse is by far better meat for you than any other red meat.

I don't see what's the problem?!
No problem if you want to eat horse and know that it is safe and approved for human consumption.

There is a lot wrong otherwise.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Deep Purple for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Basel - Karlsruhe DE track remains closed jrspet Transportation/driving 1 21.05.2011 14:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0