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  #101  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:26
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Groan- because you know very well this is not what I said.

Although porridge is very good for you, and much cheaper than branded cereal

There is clear evidence that a lot of those 2 for 1 offers in the UK end up in the bin - so some people have lost respect for meat. What I am saying is eat less meat, make it go further by adding other source of protein (and yes lentils are great for this) and veg. And if you use 2 for 1 offers, freeze and cook asap so it does not go out of date and chucked. Etc, etc. You don't need to be 'brain of Britain' to do this - nor be middle-class, honest. And as said - and nobody has yet replied - why can modest people in most European countries manage to cook good meals from scratch, with simple ingredients - at a modest price, whereas many (perhaps even most) Brits don't seem able to?

The 'horse' versus 'beef' argument is irrelevant (apart from trust in labeling) as such - but the source and provenance + health check as per human consumption, etc, is.
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  #102  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:26
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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People in the U.K. spend about 10% of their earnings on food. It used to be 40%.

A lot of people don't want quality any more and certainly aren't willing to pay for it.
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For a good chunk of people, protein is protein. They buy what they can afford to feed their family. What would you have them do? Eat gruel?
So why the worry over eating horses?

But seriously, chicken used to be a luxury food that you'd have once a month or so for a Sunday lunch.

People want to eat these things everyday and not pay much for them. Something has to suffer and in the chicken case, it's the quality. In the beef case it's an impossible-to-control over-long supply chain.
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  #103  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:27
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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I totally agree. I too sometimes don't understand why people complain about the cost of food, given the Swiss wages. I prefer to buy whole parts of meat, even in Switzerland, as I am convinced minced meat is done from poorer quality meats for instance.
The whole scandal is somehow ridiculous to me, as we in Romania don't eat horse meat.
I suppose it depends what you mean by "Swiss wages", eh? Don't forget, not everyone on the forum is here on expat salary plus bonus.
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  #104  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:30
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Again, you're still missing the point.

Choose/want/afford..whatever. They still have the right to expect beef if it says beef on the bloody label!
Then they should relabel lots of things. Cheap ice cream doesn't contain cream or much else that's good:

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Partially Reconstituted Skimmed Milk Concentrate,Sugar ,Vegetable Oil ,Whey Powder ,Dextrose ,Emulsifier (Mono- and Di-Glycerides of Fatty Acids) ,Flavouring ,Stabilisers (Guar Gum, Sodium Alginate) ,Colours (Beetroot Red, Beta-Carotene)
Most British "chocolate" could do with a re-label as well.

"I can't believe it's not butter" should be relabelled "Yellow runny sh*t in a tub"

Do you get my drift?
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  #105  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:36
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

Lasagne is too complicated; just stick to bologneighs.
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  #106  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:44
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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And as said - and nobody has yet replied - why can modest people in most European countries manage to cook good meals from scratch, with simple ingredients - at a modest price, whereas many (perhaps even most) Brits don't seem able to?
.
You said it yourself: you have to cook your meals from scratch, and I guess many Brits are not good at that. There is a funny tv programme on a Romanian television, called "Passport of Romania". Some Brits were invited in traditional country side houses, and when they saw how hard working these peasants are, not only working their piece of land and growing chickens, cows, pigs...but how they cook everything at home, they have left Romania with a little bit more respect for these people who are so much ridiculed nowadays.
Yeah, good meals require lots of work...and some of us are not bothered by this.
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  #107  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:44
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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we in Romania don't eat horse meat.
But we do here, in fact it's tonight's dinner (but not as lasagne)

Tom
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  #108  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:52
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Lasagne is too complicated; just stick to bologneighs.
This is a serious topic. Quit horsing around, adrianlondon.
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  #109  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:55
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

All this arguing back and forth about what should go in a lasagne. You're all flogging a dead horse now.
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  #110  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:57
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

If horses can be obtained for 10 Euros, perhaps they should be traded legitimately, tested and certified as safe for human consumption, and sold as such.

I wonder how many people would eat horse burgers/lasagne if it was legitimately sold at 99p and the beef equivalent was say 5.00
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  #111  
Old 11.02.2013, 16:57
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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All this arguing back and forth about what should go in a lasagne. You're all flogging a dead horse now.
Though I heard somewhere that it may have been donkey!

(which does make excellent lasagne! )

Tom
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  #112  
Old 11.02.2013, 17:14
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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You said it yourself: you have to cook your meals from scratch, and I guess many Brits are not good at that. There is a funny tv programme on a Romanian television, called "Passport of Romania". Some Brits were invited in traditional country side houses, and when they saw how hard working these peasants are, not only working their piece of land and growing chickens, cows, pigs...but how they cook everything at home, they have left Romania with a little bit more respect for these people who are so much ridiculed nowadays.
Yeah, good meals require lots of work...and some of us are not bothered by this.
Agreed - apart from the 'hard work' bit - honestly simple quality family cooking is neither complicated, nor hard-work- cook big batches and freeze helps too.
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  #113  
Old 11.02.2013, 17:17
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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If " it may or may have not " than you " may or may not " blame Romanians mate :-)
As I was only linking a news article, of which I had no way of verifying personally, I decided to add the '... or may not ...' disclaimer myself - it wasn't in the article. So at the the time I first posted, the report was saying that the problem originated in Romania ...... mate.

As with all breaking news, the story changes as more information is discovered.

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Well apologies not accepted I groaned not because I am Romanian...I would have groaned anyway because this is tabloid style of presenting news on an international forum. Who cares if you are blaming the Romanians...or at least do it when it is the case...you said it yourself "may or may not".

"Criminal gangs"? Seriously?
The thing about sensationalist headlines is to get an article noticed - end of ....... it worked.
[apart from that, I had gut rot, after half a bottle of Romanian red]

I am also a freelance, part-time headline writer for The Sun, and was responsible for:

- Shergar King (when horsemeat from Ireland, was suspected in BK burgers);
- and although OT, relating to Beckham's move to PSG -Gaul Denballs and Golden Boules, for 2 different pieces.

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Sure, let's blame the Romanians for everything. The french company Spanghero very likely new what they were buying and just wanted to make a big profit out of it. Just because it's France doesn't mean they don't know how to cheat
I was merely reporting what I'd seen on BBC TV News, and linked a report as verification.

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I hope people in charge will take measures against that company, if it will be find guilty of breaking the law.
It's not "criminal gangs", it's a company which seems to have broken the law.
We'll see if it is true or not, of course before that it will be a huge public scandal, given the seriousness of the matter. If illegalities have been committed, let them be brought into open light, this way all of us, as consumers, will benefit, no matter if this time is a Romanian company.
Btw, that law forbids horse-drawn carts and wagons from national roads, it was not intended to forbid their circulation on village roads or such. So this supposition is false, nobody will give up their horses because of that law. Some small farms are still very traditional, partly because lack of funds for modernizing, partly because this is the way things were done for long and some don't see the need to change them. I don't see any problems with that.
As I see it very often, people with little info (like you OP) will make the biggest noise.

If someone is interested in later news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21413376
If you look at the time when I made the first post, I was reporting the information that was broadcast/published at that time - including 'criminal gangs' passing off horse meat as beef for inclusion in processed meat products in order to make a quick buck. The horses were reported to come from Romania, due to a surplus originating from horse drawn vehicles being banned from the highways.
As more details are discovered with time, than the facts may change ..... but that's not down to me, nor my responsibility.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


But for me, the thing of most concern, is the state of the fresh food market, being controlled by the power of the supermarkets, and driven by the consumer.

Whatever the outcome in this case, it is completely wrong that livestock from country A; are slaughtered and butchered in country B; to have the meat go for processing in country C; and the 'finished product' to be finally sold in country D.

If ever there was an argument for returning to old fashioned values and paying for quality occasionally, and not quantity daily, then this is it.
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  #114  
Old 11.02.2013, 17:21
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Again, if you buy 2 large chickens for 5 - feeding 12 approx (and more if you boil carcass to make stock for risotto, etc)- then you have, somehow, to realise the husbandry, feed, etc, can't be of quality, can you? And even more so when it comes to sausages, pies, and other ready-made cheap dishes, like the lasagna in question.
Why though? Unless you are a farmer, a child of farmers or a neighbor of farmers, why would you know anything at all about how much it costs, or ought to cost, to raise a chicken to butchering weight?

I grew up with chickens around, so I do know something about those. But let's take something I don't know anything about growing - take artichokes, just as an example. I have no idea how long it takes to grow an artichoke, what kind of fertilizer they need or what diseases they are vulnerable to, or even how many of them you get per plant. Consequently I have no basis at all for forming an opinion on their proper cost: if you asked me how much it costs to grow artichokes - organically or any other way - all I'd be able to say is that it can't be more than CHF3 because they sell for CHF3 in Migros. If Migros put artichokes on sale next week for CHF2 I'd think "hey, bargain!" not "ugh, something must be wrong with them."

So my question is, on what basis do you expect the average (non-farm-raised) consumer to be able to determine whether 2 whole chickens for 5 is too cheap, too expensive or just right?

(The calculations become even more complicated for large animals. Ribeye steak costs more than rump roast, why? That difference certainly isn't anything to do with animal husbandry or quality of feed. So even if I could somehow price up the cost of feed, shelter, medication etc. for a whole steer, I'd still have no idea how much 100g of the particular cut I'm buying ought to cost.)
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  #115  
Old 11.02.2013, 17:33
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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on what basis do you expect the average (non-farm-raised) consumer to be able to determine whether 2 whole chickens for 5 is too cheap, too expensive or just right?
Well, based on my experience with rabbits, CHF 250/kg sounds about right!

Tom
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  #116  
Old 11.02.2013, 17:37
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

One word- common sense (+ having raised chickens myself, contact with friends who raise 'organic' chickens and comparison with price of good quality chickens [in the uk]). There are excellent reasons why some chickens are more expensive than others [again not comparing CH/UK]- husbandry, quality feed, antibiotic use, etc, etc.
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  #117  
Old 11.02.2013, 17:42
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Well, based on my experience with rabbits, CHF 250/kg sounds about right!

Tom
And that's just it. The realities of keeping your own animals (whether as pets or for the table) are so completely different from farming on a larger scale.

In the end the price of a whole chicken is whatever price somebody will raise it for, somebody will process it for and somebody else will buy it for.
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  #118  
Old 11.02.2013, 17:51
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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Agreed - apart from the 'hard work' bit - honestly simple quality family cooking is neither complicated, nor hard-work- cook big batches and freeze helps too.
The hard work bit was related to farm work, generally speaking.
Cooking is not hard working, I agree, but it's time consumming and requires some skills, and honestly I've known people who simply have no talent or skills for it. It's none of my business how everyone takes care of own nutrition, but people should be aware that cheap ready meals are not quite healthy, first of all because one has no control of what's inside the packs - be it tons of additives, poorer quality bits of meat or vegs, etc.
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  #119  
Old 11.02.2013, 18:07
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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All this arguing back and forth about what should go in a lasagne. You're all flogging a dead horse now.

GG your bad ,you beat me to it
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  #120  
Old 11.02.2013, 18:12
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Re: British horsemeat scandal - Focus switches to Romania

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And that's just it. The realities of keeping your own animals (whether as pets or for the table) are so completely different from farming on a larger scale.

In the end the price of a whole chicken is whatever price somebody will raise it for, somebody will process it for and somebody else will buy it for.
Yes ... but there are ways and ways of raising a chicken, feeding it and even 'processing' it. And the costs reflect this - you don't need to be a specialist farmer to realise that to raise, etc, chickens, for that cost, you need to use methods+feeds+processes which are cheap themselves. As said, just common sense (+ discussions with experienced chicken farmers, clearly stating you can't raise a quality fed and cared for chicken for 2.50 in the UK these days).
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