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  #221  
Old 27.05.2014, 12:47
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

FN certainly does in France. In fact a large number of FN members in the South are 2nd or 3rd generation Spanish or Italian immigrants.

I have friends in France who are 2nd or 3rd immigrants from Algeria and Morrocco, born and bred in FRance, perfect French, excellent education up to University Level- Muslim but who do not wear a scarf or any outer signs of their religion- who have been totally unable to find jobs, due to their origins and name, and are treated like second class citizens. One of them, with a Deug in IT, had to fall back on tele-sales as she could not find a job in her field for several years. The organisation that employed her asked her to use a typically French name, as her Morroccan one would result in poor sales. Another came to the UK on a course organised by French Chômage- and then a work placement (as again, it was impossible for her to find a job in France)- and was amazed that, for the first time in her life, the fact she was a woman in IT and of clear North AFrican origin- it made absolutely no difference to her colleagues and she was treated totally as an equal. She was offered a job there and stayed for 8 years. Due to experience and excellent references and contacts, she was finally able to land a good job in Paris- but finding a flat was a nightmare, due to her name- despite having a great job and plenty of savings! Racism against FRENCH people of North African origin (3 generations back and who've probably never visited their town or village of origin) is just dreadful, shameful I'd say.

One of my favourite French films is 'La Haine' by Matthieu Kassovitz (of Amélie Poulain fame)- filemd in black and white, about life in the Cités (out of town 'council high-rise estates'). Really worth watching. The UK is a haven of peace and tolerance by comparison- and no wonder immigrants dream of living there.
Personally I could have never taught in France- due to the attitude of so many staff towards their Muslim students, and also towards ours on exchanges, which I've witnessed of the many years of exchanges with several French schools over my many years as a teacher in the UK (we were lied to by a school in the Vosges who said the host family of one of our students was in crisis and could not host her- we insisted and met with constant negative replies, so we found a family ourselves- but then the school said she could not come because she wore a simple coloured scarf (no hijab- or other 'traditional clothing)- the daughter of a local surgeon who had hosted the French girl so well, making huge efforts to adjust to make her feel comfortable).

Last edited by Odile; 27.05.2014 at 20:52.
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  #222  
Old 27.05.2014, 13:01
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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The UK is a haven of peace and tolerance by comparison
I don't know anything about France (I try to avoid that country if I can help it ), but racism is absolutely rife in British schools, in the staff room as much as on the playground - even (especially?) in schools with a large percentage of children from ethnic minorities.


You'd be horrified at some of the stuff I heard when I was working in England - it's funny how open people are when they see you're a white bloke, and therefore considered to be "one of the crowd". It was especially bad from the more "liberal", "politically correct" members of staff - they were at least as racist as their more blunt colleagues, but had no idea that they were!


It's funny how blind people are to their own prejudices.
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  #223  
Old 27.05.2014, 13:10
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

Well, I'd say you were very unlucky then. I taught in the same town as you, and the staff at our school were overall really open-minded and totally tolerant of all the ethnic groups present. Our languages dept also taught Bengali and Gujarati- and we worked really well as a team. The only difficulty was with parents who kept older daughters at home to look after little ones for long periods of time, and who found it hard at times to see that the education of daughters is very important, or whose daughters went on 'holiday' back to Bangladesh and never came back.

Which never happened in the schools where I taught in Leicester due to completely different ethnic groups, and very ambitious parents (Ugandan Asians ejected by Iddi Amin, for instance).
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Old 27.05.2014, 13:14
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Well, I'd say you were very unlucky then. I taught in the same town as you, and the staff at our school were overall really open-minded and totally tolerant of all the ethnic groups present.

To your face, maybe. I can assure you that the school in question was just as bad as any other. Like I say, though, it was often the ones who had no idea how racist they were who were the worst offenders, so it's possible you simply didn't notice it. I bet your Muslim colleagues did, though.
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  #225  
Old 27.05.2014, 13:30
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

I worked there long enough to know, really. And as said, the great majority were open, tolerant and supportive of all students. There were a few of the older members of staff who made daft, even unpleasant comments at times- of course, could count them on the fingers of one hand. Our department certainly was a fabulous and close team- and we organised many activities with and for our students of all abilities and ethnicity. With regular trips to Brick Lane, and celebrations of Eid with all the staff and kids, etc. Something that just could never happen in France- where the principle of 'laïcité' (secularisation) is used to hide a multitude of (racist) sins.

Our Muslim colleagues worked closely with us, and we were often invited to their homes for Eid or other celebrations and family events.

Last edited by Odile; 27.05.2014 at 17:12.
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  #226  
Old 27.05.2014, 13:55
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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It was especially bad from the more "liberal", "politically correct" members of staff - they were at least as racist as their more blunt colleagues, but had no idea that they were!


It's funny how blind people are to their own prejudices.
Yes, it's absolutely "hilarious"....sigh.
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  #227  
Old 27.05.2014, 13:58
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Important for her success was that Marine Le Pen careful moved her party towards the centre. PLUS her flamboyant and charming personality
...as charming as a smoking frog can be. She'd make a great couple with Farage.

I'd be curious to know how many second-third generation immigrants voted with these parties....and then we could start the racism discussion all over again.
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  #228  
Old 27.05.2014, 15:14
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

Quite a good analysis here. I agree with him that EU seats might not translate into Westminster seats, despite the hype.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014...od-as-they-see
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Old 27.05.2014, 15:19
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

He's already in the history books.
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Old 27.05.2014, 17:09
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?


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  #231  
Old 27.05.2014, 17:47
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Nope. I don't know about FN, but UKIP are specifically concerned with immigration from the EU. Perhaps you're thinking of the BNP (who are just a bunch of ****s for whom nobody votes any more).
Really? I would say "immigration through the EU" as well as EU meddling in British legislation (for good or bad).
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  #232  
Old 27.05.2014, 19:40
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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FN certainly does in France. In fact a large number of FN members in the South are 2nd or 3rd generation Spanish or Italian immigrants.

I have friends in France who are 2nd or 3rd immigrants from Algeria and Morrocco, born and bred in FRance, perfect French, excellent education up to Untiversity Level- Muslim but who do not wear a scarf or any outer signs of their religion- who have been totally unable to find jobs, due to their origins and name, and are treated like second class citizens. One of them, with a Deug in IT, had to fall back on tele-sales as she could not find a job in her field for several years. The organisation that employed her asked her to use a typically French name, as her Morroccan one would result in poor sales. Another came to the UK on a course organised by French Chômage- and then a work placement (as again, it was impossible for her to find a job in France)- and was amazed that, for the first time in her life, the fact she was a woman in IT and of clear North AFrican origin- it made absolutely no difference to her colleagues and she was treated totally as an equal. She was offered a job there and stayed for 8 years. Due to experience and excellent references and contacts, she was finally able to land a good job in Paris- but finding a flat was a nightmare, due to her name- despite having a great job and plenty of savings! Racism against FRENCH people of North African origin (3 generations back and who've probably never visited their town or village of origin) is just dreadful, shameful I'd say.

One of my favourite French films is 'La Haine' by Matthieu Kassovitz (of Amélie Poulain fame)- filemd in black and white, about life in the Cités (out of town 'council high-rise estates'). Really worth watching. The UK is a haven of peace and tolerance by comparison- and no wonder immigrants dream of living there.
Personally I could have never taught in France- due to the attitude of so many staff towards their Muslim students, and also towards ours on exchanges, which I've witnessed of the many years of exchanges with several French schools over my many years as a teacher in the UK (we were lied to by a school in the Vosges who said the host family of one of our students was in crisis and could not host her- we insisted and met with constant negative replies, so we found a family ourselves- but then the school said she could not come because she wore a simple coloured scarf (no hijab- or other 'traditional clothing)- the daughter of a local surgeon who had hosted the French gril so well, making huge efforts to adjust to make her feel comfortable).
Don't start me on school exchanges with France! A French family refused a British-Asian student, TOP of the class in French, on the ground that they wanted a "real English" partner for their daughter! Never had this problem with German exchanges.
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  #233  
Old 27.05.2014, 19:51
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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(...)

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgr...ity-in-europe/
French City with 40% Muslim Population is the Most Dangerous City in Europe
The usual trick of right-extremist: blurring the border between simple and simplistic explanations to trap the credulous.

Marseille has a very special role in organized crime in France and it dates back to the early 20th century way before "muslims invaded" the city. The milieu is linked to the corsican and italian mafia active in all sort of illegal business. It has nothing to do with the "40% muslims" albeit the young unemployed became easy recruits for the milieu.
A simple to understand education media for your level about Marseille I recommend to watch the movie "French connection".

PS: for your information the most dangerous city in France is not Marseille but in Guyane (10.5 homicide/100'000 habitants vs. 2.5 homicides/100'000 in Marseille).
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  #234  
Old 27.05.2014, 20:56
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

I do wonder where Ganymede comes from, as he is not French. A couple of generations back, Spanish and Italian immigrants in Marseille were treated like dirt and 3rd class citizens- now many of them vote NF.

One of our daughters spent a year with Erasmus at the Ecole de Commerci in Marseille and lived at the Cité Universitaire in Luminy, mainly with north africans and africans- she had no problems at all. But she had a drink spiked and was nearly abducted one night- and by the French mafia types. Thank goodness for her good friends who managed to save her from whatever terrible fate.

Time to re-read Arthur Miller's 'A view from the bridge' me-thinks. The most racist person I know is a 2nd generation Italian American, who was born and bred in the Bronx in the 30s. The vitriol is beyond belief at times, and he would shoot Obama if he could. Not against Arabs of course, in the US, but Hispanics and Blacks- who according to Gannymede are from the same culture.
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  #235  
Old 27.05.2014, 21:10
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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So I guess you are an 'expat' in Switzerland- the right kind of foreigner, not one of them other kind of nasty foreigners. You of course have totally integrated, speak and write perfect French and can make Fondue making figures of 8 with one hand. Bravo ...
You have a caricatured understanding of right-wing beliefs.
You talk about integration, but fail to mention that integration is not the same as assimilation.
True, I am a foreigner in Schweitzerland, but I am of European descent.
As I've explained on other occasions, economic, cultural and individual exchanges between European nations is perfectly normal and should be encouraged.


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That's why conservatives like me despise them so much.
Funny. You consider yourself a conservative? LOL, in what way? Fiscally conservative maybe, but culturally and socially, you are anything but conservative.



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Nope. I don't know about FN, but UKIP are specifically concerned with immigration from the EU. Perhaps you're thinking of the BNP (who are just a bunch of ****s for whom nobody votes any more).
Immigration from recent EU members like Romania and Bulgaria.


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France (I try to avoid that country if I can help it )
Anti-european racism, socially acceptable and welcomed...


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200,000 immigrants shouldn't be of much concern to the Froggys. If so, how come so many of them want to leave? I consider France a halfway house while they try and make the jump to a more fair and pleasant land
Did it ever cross your mind that many Frenchies want to leave for that exact reason? God, you leftists...


http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130385
Anti-Semitic Violence Sweeps France
France is home to the largest Muslim population in Europe, and Shahid fears the attacks are actually undermining the Palestinian efforts.
France is home to about half a million Jews and 6 million Muslims, and is considered as the European country with the greatest potential for religious conflict.

Oh dear, it seems that the "religion of peace" is causing trouble again.
And as a result:
http://news.yahoo.com/sharp-rise-fre...174124468.html
Sharp rise in French Jews leaving for Israel
The number of French Jews emigrating to Israel rose nearly four-fold in the first quarter of the year and could touch a record in 2014, a Jewish organisation said Monday.
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  #236  
Old 27.05.2014, 21:14
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Funny. You consider yourself a conservative? LOL, in what way? Fiscally conservative maybe, but culturally and socially, you are anything but conservative.
Yeah, but you know jack shit about me and my beliefs, so why should I care what you think?
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  #237  
Old 27.05.2014, 21:18
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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A French family refused a British-Asian student, TOP of the class in French, on the ground that they wanted a "real English" partner for their daughter!
Was their request that unreasonable?
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  #238  
Old 27.05.2014, 21:18
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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True, I am a foreigner in Schweitzerland, but I am of European descent.
And that gives you all the rights in the world to come and conquer back your forefathers' lands. What would Europe do without people like you.
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  #239  
Old 27.05.2014, 21:24
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

European nations like Bulgaria and Rumania, Kosovo and Serbs- or just 'your kind of Europeans'.

Why is it 'leftist' to be human?

Why can't Conservatives be human?

You make my point exactly- a huge difference between integration and assimilation. What the French expect of their immigrants is total assimilation- even when North Africans do (see my examples above- North Africans born in France, and well-educated) they are still not accepted and are not given a chance to succeed. I love the song by Zebda 'ah non, ça va pas être possible, ah non' (re job, re flat, re loan to start a business, re ... anything) - whereas the Brits ask for integration, whilst totally accepting the differences and not expecting them to be wiped out. In the town where I lived in UK, now 50% + immigrants of every race, nation and religous affiliation- there are few problems actually. Most people (but of course not all) accept that people can remain 'different', follow their faith and culture, speak their languages (often several in the same family), etc- as long as they integrate, in the sense that they respect the law, speak English as well as their own- and so on. Leicester has the biggest Diwali celebrations outside India, and shared by all, Brits, immigrants from all over the world, and Indians of all persuasions and cultures, as well as the local Hindu population. And the young Asians are ambitious, work hard and are very high achievers (overall) compared to the indigenous population- and certainly some of the local whites who are un-employed for several generations (sadly) and have no ambitions whatsoever and do badly in education (tragically).

Yes , their request was totally unreasonable- totally unacceptable even. Same for our Indian girl, a Hindu btw, again top of the French class (and most classes indeed), born and bred in the UK- a surgeon's and teacher's daughter, who looked after the French girl fantastically, taking her to London and Warwick Castle at great expense, cooking English food for her, and who had welcomed her in their great home. Totally, totally unacceptable. Would it have been OK to request a 'proper' English girl if the parents had been French, or Italians, or ... any other nationalities but English. Would Welsh have been OK?

Go and peddle your vitriol and hatred elsewhere- please.

Your profile is very quiet about your origins (not that it matters to me as such- all welcome. But origins do seem to matter an awful lot to you, so you should really not hide).
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Old 27.05.2014, 21:24
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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What would Europe do without people like you.
It would crumble.
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