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  #141  
Old 23.05.2014, 22:08
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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I seem to have read somewhere that UKip did not win a single council in the municipal council elections, but apparently their share of the votes have surged.
You're right, they don't control any councils. They also have rather less than half the number of councillors of the next smallest party, the Lib Dems (who do have control of six councils). Oh, and one of their new councillors has resigned after 50 minutes...

Their vote share has surged, but it's surged from "almost nothing" to "distant fourth". I will be *amazed* if they get a single MP at the general election. Even though they've made gains in Labour strongholds, their main impact has been to split the Tory vote; if they do that again at the GE, we'll almost certainly get a minority Labour government, propped up by the Lib Dems on a confidence and supply basis.
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  #142  
Old 23.05.2014, 22:22
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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results don't surprise me.

i wonder if the tories will ditch the libdems and do a deal with ukip.
Heard that UKIP demands the TOries to clearly commit to lead the uK out of the EU. THis is not really what a good part of the TOries want
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  #143  
Old 23.05.2014, 22:41
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Many private (public?) UK schools have become dependent on the premium fees paid for their international programs, at the same time that numbers of UK boarders falls. I don't know so much about the background of the Chinese money, but certainly a lot (not all) of the Russian money is corrupt at source of origin. The schools aren't in the business of integrity though...
Not totally related, BUT...isn't it a bit sad to realise how the European politicians are preparing their countries for the sooner than expected - coming serious changes - competitive emerging economies like China, India, Brazil etc.? Isn't it sad that this (intra-E.U. xenophobia) is ALL they got?
Sad. Worrying.
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  #144  
Old 23.05.2014, 22:42
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

Ironic when the media claim that people voting UKIP are being anti-political..What I find strange is how on earth does citizens who may not have participated in the stale 'democratic' political system, who have started voting for the first time in ages and some even for the first time ever contribute to an anti-political agenda? How does engaging in the political system make anyone anti-political?
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  #145  
Old 23.05.2014, 22:50
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Ironic when the media claim that people voting UKIP are being anti-political..What I find strange is how on earth does citizens who may not have participated in the stale 'democratic' political system, who have started voting for the first time in ages and some even for the first time ever contribute to an anti-political agenda? How does engaging in the political system make anyone anti-political?
UKIP are the best thing to happen to British democracy since the 1990s.
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  #146  
Old 23.05.2014, 22:52
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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UKIP are the best thing to happen to British democracy since the 1990s.
I know there is something more than this blunt affirmation, so....why exactly?
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  #147  
Old 23.05.2014, 22:54
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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I know there is something more than this blunt affirmation, so....why exactly?
Read SOBEIT's post: people are actually voting. The mainstream parties are actually doing politics. The casual contempt towards the ordinary voter held by the political classes for the last twenty years or so is being challenged.

I haven't seen British democracy so healthy since the days of Margaret Thatcher and Neil Kinnock.
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  #148  
Old 23.05.2014, 23:05
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

UKIP have 4.4% of the council seats counted so far. (In 2009, the BNP got 6.2%)

Turn-out was still well under 40%. Less than half the electorate gave enough of a shit to even bother with a protest vote.

There's a lot of media guff about UKIP Triumphant and the political reengagement of the masses, but it's simply not supported by the figures.
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  #149  
Old 24.05.2014, 06:12
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Read SOBEIT's post: people are actually voting. The mainstream parties are actually doing politics. The casual contempt towards the ordinary voter held by the political classes for the last twenty years or so is being challenged.

I haven't seen British democracy so healthy since the days of Margaret Thatcher and Neil Kinnock.
Many of those going out to vote - perhaps for the first time in years - are doing so because ONE party has given them something they understand, and it is a legal way to be racist, or perhaps more accurately xenophobic. There is nothing "illegal" about being xenophobic, but in a society where is has been increasingly frowned upon to target any individual for being different, this sets a really bad example. From what I sense there will be schoolchildren who know they can't get away with derogatorily referring to someone as "gay" but don't know any better than to call them "foreign". One can only ponder the campaign lit if Farage and Gove get cosy.

Would love to have a soundbite from Tony Benn, unfortunately that isn't going to happen.

Last edited by Tasebo; 24.05.2014 at 06:29.
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  #150  
Old 24.05.2014, 07:09
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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UKIP have 4.4% of the council seats counted so far. (In 2009, the BNP got 6.2%)

Turn-out was still well under 40%. Less than half the electorate gave enough of a shit to even bother with a protest vote.

There's a lot of media guff about UKIP Triumphant and the political reengagement of the masses, but it's simply not supported by the figures.
Exactly.

The British democratic system has always been the least democratic out of all so called democratic systems.

'First past the post' is the bare minimum to give a vague semblance of a democracy while in reality making sure that the families that have been in power in the UK for many centuries still hold the real power, regardless who people vote for.

The majority of voters in the UK have realised this by now, that's why they don't even bother voting.
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  #151  
Old 24.05.2014, 08:01
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Many of those going out to vote - perhaps for the first time in years - are doing so because ONE party has given them something they understand, and it is a legal way to be racist, or perhaps more accurately xenophobic. There is nothing "illegal" about being xenophobic, but in a society where is has been increasingly frowned upon to target any individual for being different, this sets a really bad example. From what I sense there will be schoolchildren who know they can't get away with derogatorily referring to someone as "gay" but don't know any better than to call them "foreign". One can only ponder the campaign lit if Farage and Gove get cosy.

Would love to have a soundbite from Tony Benn, unfortunately that isn't going to happen.
Out of interest, both labour and conservative have spoken frequently and regularly recently of cutting immigration. They confirmed on TV yesterday that they know many voters share ukips concerns and they understand them. Does this make them also a racist and/or xenephobic party, or are their replica views acceptable because they are mainstream parties and not UKIP ?
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  #152  
Old 24.05.2014, 11:00
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Read SOBEIT's post: people are actually voting. The mainstream parties are actually doing politics. The casual contempt towards the ordinary voter held by the political classes for the last twenty years or so is being challenged.

I haven't seen British democracy so healthy since the days of Margaret Thatcher and Neil Kinnock.
Goodness. That reminds me of the presidential elections we had in 2000 when due to the lethargy of our electorate there were two un-desirable candidates that made it to the second tour: a convinced ex-communist-reformed-social-democrat and an extremist-nationalist. Only then people mobilised en-masse and went to vote, to kick out the extremist. In a way it was good, because since then there is no way that a nationalist party could win more than a few percents (max.4-5%, usually 2-3%) of the general electorate.
Anyway. Are they doing real politics, are they coming with viable economic, social programmes? Or is it just boo-hoo, we won't let a few poor guys come here...

Back home, it's kind of hard to believe anymore in E.U. and why should we vote these days, we weren't protected by anyone, anyway. People trying to mobilise others, via media, Facebook, etc.
One example, go to vote, you will do it for your family. Go to vote for the pro-Europe parties, I mean.

Last edited by greenmount; 24.05.2014 at 11:23.
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  #153  
Old 24.05.2014, 12:25
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Many of those going out to vote - perhaps for the first time in years - are doing so because ONE party has given them something they understand, and it is a legal way to be racist, or perhaps more accurately xenophobic. There is nothing "illegal" about being xenophobic, but in a society where is has been increasingly frowned upon to target any individual for being different, this sets a really bad example. From what I sense there will be schoolchildren who know they can't get away with derogatorily referring to someone as "gay" but don't know any better than to call them "foreign". One can only ponder the campaign lit if Farage and Gove get cosy.

Would love to have a soundbite from Tony Benn, unfortunately that isn't going to happen.

Jeremy Clarkson will feel vindicated! I've got a Swiss friend who got beaten up in Notts...got picked on because he was speaking French with his host. It's now "ok" to call other nationalities derogatory names. If indeed xenophobic comments are not punishable by law, I'm not certain I would say this is what I would call "Best for British democracy since the 1990s" as someone said in a previous post. A shame for the image of Britain, more like.
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  #154  
Old 24.05.2014, 12:32
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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If indeed xenophobic comments are not punishable by law, I'm not certain I would say this is what I would call "Best for British democracy since the 1990s" as someone said in a previous post. A shame for the image of Britain, more like.
A well functioning democracy should be offensive. It should be rude, fractious, argumentative. When all parties agree on something (like, for example, that anyone who asks questions about the effects of large scale immigration on the education and health infrastructure of the nation must, obviously, be racist), then there's something badly wrong with the state of a nation's politics.

I wouldn't vote for UKIP in a million years, but I like the fact that they exist because finally the complacent bastards who run Britain are having to defend their positions without casually dismissing their opponents as "silly bigoted old women".

In the long run, that has to be a good thing.
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  #155  
Old 24.05.2014, 12:44
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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A well functioning democracy should be offensive. It should be rude, fractious, argumentative. When all parties agree on something (like, for example, that anyone who asks questions about the effects of large scale immigration on the education and health infrastructure of the nation must, obviously, be racist), then there's something badly wrong with the state of a nation's politics.

I wouldn't vote for UKIP in a million years, but I like the fact that they exist because finally the complacent bastards who run Britain are having to defend their positions without casually dismissing their opponents as "silly bigoted old women".

In the long run, that has to be a good thing.
Fair point. I still cannot help feeling that by playing with fire, someone will get hurt. It is true that mainstream parties have been super complacent and I do miss U.K. 1980s politics where at least everyone knew where they stood.
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  #156  
Old 24.05.2014, 12:48
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

Do you feel exactly the same about the SVP/UDC? Just out of interest?
How would you feel when the EDL and/or NF present candidates for elections- will you welcome that as a good thing? Again, just out of interest.
Of course the voting system and direct democracy of inititiatives, etc, means that the effect/results are quite different in both countries.
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  #157  
Old 24.05.2014, 12:52
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Do you feel exactly the same about the SVP/UDC? Just out of interest?
Yes.


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How would you feel when the EDL and/or NF present candidates for elections- will you welcome that as a good thing?
Yes.
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  #158  
Old 24.05.2014, 13:04
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

While we're on the subject: why isn't there a proper left wing party in Britain any more?

When I was a kid, there were at least a few genuine trade unionists in the Labour Party. The North London political clique hadn't completely taken over, and there was still something of a voice for the ordinary working bloke. They were a bunch of tossers, but at least some of them had a reason to be.

But now... well, who speaks for the common man?

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Old 24.05.2014, 13:07
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Yes.




Yes.
Thanks- and what if they win? Nazis, well they did. KuKluxClan? No line ever to be drawn? Again- the effect will be really different with different types of democracies- the First Past the Post system does have something to be commended for- even though it meant my vote always ending up in the bin every time I voted, apart for local elections.
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Old 24.05.2014, 13:09
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Re: Theoretical UKIP win impact on expats in CH?

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Thanks- and what if they win?
If the other political parties stopped being so smug and patronising and pulled their fingers out of their arses, then the extremist parties wouldn't win.

That's the whole point! That's how democracy is supposed to work!
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