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  #441  
Old 09.09.2015, 16:30
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Re: Turkish Spring?

We are at the door of a civil war. I hope no one will cross it.
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  #442  
Old 09.09.2015, 18:05
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Re: Turkish Spring?

The question to me is if it hasn't been already. Old wounds were torn open a few of months ago. Every time that happens they'll be more difficult to healcover.
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  #443  
Old 09.09.2015, 18:13
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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We are at the door of a civil war. I hope no one will cross it.
Problem is due to the situation in Syria and Iraq there are far more weapons around and far more people who are skilled at using them. If Erdogan (the palace!) does not pull back I fear the worst will happen.

The last thing this area needs is another war with the associated loss of life and increase in refugee numbers plus the poor Syrian refugees in Turkey will have few options especially with winter approaching.
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  #444  
Old 10.09.2015, 09:31
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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The question to me is if it hasn't been already. Old wounds were torn open a few of months ago. Every time that happens they'll be more difficult to healcover.
I do not think we are there yet. You do not start building hatred towards your neighbor / in-laws because of terror attacks whose origins are not really easy to locate; some of the attacks blamed on PKK were denied by them and to be honest there is not a single trust-worthy objective news source at the moment, be it pro or anti-government. Even during the dreadful attacks of September 1955 attacks against the Christians in Istanbul, the attacks were carried out by certain non-local groups and locals tried to help out the victims (My grandfather being among them). These attacks will nevertheless be recorded as shameful events in Turkish history

The majority of masses protesting against the Kurdish party / media are hauled from cities far where the protests occurred from you guess which political party.

The severity of the current situation is that the government seems to have interest in not re-establishing peace in the country
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  #445  
Old 10.09.2015, 11:05
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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I do not think we are there yet. You do not start building hatred towards your neighbor / in-laws because of terror attacks whose origins are not really easy to locate; some of the attacks blamed on PKK were denied by them and to be honest there is not a single trust-worthy objective news source at the moment, be it pro or anti-government. Even during the dreadful attacks of September 1955 attacks against the Christians in Istanbul, the attacks were carried out by certain non-local groups and locals tried to help out the victims (My grandfather being among them). These attacks will nevertheless be recorded as shameful events in Turkish history

The majority of masses protesting against the Kurdish party / media are hauled from cities far where the protests occurred from you guess which political party.

The severity of the current situation is that the government seems to have interest in not re-establishing peace in the country
The simultaneous attacks on HDP Kurdish party offices in multiple cities was certainly not spontaneous and stinks of a central organisation.
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  #446  
Old 10.09.2015, 11:28
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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Problem is due to the situation in Syria and Iraq there are far more weapons around and far more people who are skilled at using them. If Erdogan (the palace!) does not pull back I fear the worst will happen.

The last thing this area needs is another war with the associated loss of life and increase in refugee numbers plus the poor Syrian refugees in Turkey will have few options especially with winter approaching.

I fear that he no longer CAN pull back
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  #447  
Old 10.09.2015, 12:29
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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I fear that he no longer CAN pull back
Problem he has if he continues attacking the PKK without getting the result that the terror attacks stop (regardless of who is making the terror attacks) then he looks like the wrong man for the job.

If he pulls back now then he will probably lose some support from the extreme nationalists.
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  #448  
Old 10.09.2015, 13:18
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Re: Turkish Spring?

I don't think so, the standard reaction is "we didn't push hard enough". The thread by Sbrinz is the best example for that.

You see, no longer supporting somebody who keeps following the same policy amounts to recognizing that the previous assessment, previous support, was wrong. Most people try to avoid that because it can be quite painful for themselves.
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  #449  
Old 10.09.2015, 13:28
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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I fear that he no longer CAN pull back
Not since his sünnet, anyway.
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  #450  
Old 11.09.2015, 09:28
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Re: Turkish Spring?

at that time he had no troops at his disposal
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  #451  
Old 16.09.2015, 18:52
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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Erdoğan is obviously crazy.
He did really good for his country and the people during his first 8 years or so but then he lost it.
If this is why the Americans don't let anybody stand for a second re-election they have definitely got it right.

Probably not crazy!
I assume one powerful driver is the corruption affair. If he and the AKP lose control and this inquiry is resumed then likely past and present senior AKP people are looking at jail sentences.
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  #452  
Old 17.09.2015, 13:56
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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Probably not crazy!
I assume one powerful driver is the corruption affair. If he and the AKP lose control and this inquiry is resumed then likely past and present senior AKP people are looking at jail sentences.

no no no, NOT jail sentences but the fate of




Adnan Menderes (Turkish: [adˈnan mendeˈɾes]; 1899 – 17 September 1961) or Ali Adnan Ertekin Menderes was the Turkish Prime Minister between 1950–1960. He was one of the founders of the Democrat Party (DP) in 1946, the fourth legal opposition party of Turkey. He was hanged by the military junta after the 1960 coup d'état, along with two other cabinet members,
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  #453  
Old 30.09.2015, 00:56
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Re: Turkish Spring?

After Putin gave his speech at the UN today he held a press conference.
Amongst other stuff he said "Moscow will support the Kurds against ISIS"!

Life would get very interesting if we saw Russian aircraft defending Kurdish positions against Turkish aircraft!!
Now we know why Russia has sent interceptor fighters to Syria instead of ground attack jets
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  #454  
Old 07.10.2015, 01:31
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Re: Turkish Spring?

This photo here is claimed to be of the Turkish police dragging the body of a Kurd on a rope behind a police vehicle.

I assume the police will not be disciplined?
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  #455  
Old 07.10.2015, 09:53
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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Problem he has if he continues attacking the PKK without getting the result that the terror attacks stop (regardless of who is making the terror attacks) then he looks like the wrong man for the job.

If he pulls back now then he will probably lose some support from the extreme nationalists.

He does NOT attack PKK to reduce attacks but to reduce the PKK influence among the Kurds
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  #456  
Old 07.10.2015, 09:58
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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He does NOT attack PKK to reduce attacks but to reduce the PKK influence among the Kurds
I beg to differ
He attacks to reduce the HDP support among the Kurds and push them towards PKK effectively lowering the chances of HDP exceeding the barrier in November elections and increasing AKP's chances for majority government

His selfish goals/attempts can only be compared with that of a cornered rat
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  #457  
Old 07.10.2015, 10:12
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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After Putin gave his speech at the UN today he held a press conference.
Amongst other stuff he said "Moscow will support the Kurds against ISIS"!

Life would get very interesting if we saw Russian aircraft defending Kurdish positions against Turkish aircraft!!
Now we know why Russia has sent interceptor fighters to Syria instead of ground attack jets

The Kurdish Independence movement has FOUR wings, the Turkish leftist one which is attacked by Erdogan and the Turkish righwing one which is tolerated by Erdogan, and the Iraqi-Syrian leftwing one and the Iraqi-Syrian leftwing one. The leftwingers of course have Russian Support. Putin is in constant touch with Russian speaking Erdogan, it is no coincidence what Putin and Medwedew had some sports training in Sochi, where Erdogan has relatives
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  #458  
Old 23.10.2015, 15:54
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Re: Turkish Spring?

Poll released by the Pew research centre here on Oct. 14th claims "51% Turks Hold Negative View of Erdogan" compared to 34% two years ago.

Full report here,
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  #459  
Old 28.10.2015, 14:08
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Re: Turkish Spring?

Interesting times
Abdullah Gul making a speech in Oxford last weekend saying Erdogan has too much power "it ain't democratic" and saying it was good the HDP party entered parliament and HDP is not part of PKK.
Wonder how many Turkish newspapers will report the speech.

Also Turkey has started a court case against their ex-friend Russia saying Gazprom prices are too high
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  #460  
Old 28.10.2015, 18:14
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Re: Turkish Spring?

Riot police firing tear gas and water cannon stormed two opposition-linked Turkish television stations and forced them off air on Wednesday.
Officers smashed through the gates of the media compound with chainsaws, according to images broadcast live on the group's television stations, Bugun and Kanalturk.
Link here.

The Ankara chief prosecutor's office said the seizure was linked to an investigation into the conglomerate on suspicion of "terror financing", "terror propaganda" and other offences related to Koza-Ipek's support for Gulen's Hizmet (Service) movement.

Turkey is now worse than Russia in its treatment of Journalists and the opposition

There was a quote from a Turkish shopkeeper in a newspaper earlier this week "Turkey is now a country where killers walk free and people who write one sentence in the internet are jailed".

And from today's Independent "The AKP has an overwhelming advantage when it comes to campaigning and influencing the electorate. A survey of the state-owned TV channels shows that, over the past 25 days, they have given 30 hours of coverage to the AKP and 29 hours to Mr Erdogan’s activities, while the CHP received five hours, the MHP one hour and 10 minutes, and the HDP 18 minutes. "

Also "Turkey, which was poised to be a major power in the Middle East in 2012, has now been all but excluded as an influence in much of the region." Probably not a bad thing!

Last edited by marton; 29.10.2015 at 01:29.
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