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  #41  
Old 10.06.2013, 11:08
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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HA-HA!!!!! That's a knee slapper right there. It gets even funnier once you find out that they have arrested Marines for disagreeing with the war(s), signed a law that allows the gov't to arrest anyone and imprision them for as long as they please without seeing a lawyer or going to trial. Its hilarious, I mean, why make these laws if your never going to use them
Free press? Only if it follows our agenda
Free speech? Only if it follows our agenda
Habeous Corpus? What's that?


Which way is it free you ask, one way.

Im just waiting for the US's Taksim Square. Oh wait, they would already stop those protestors before they got out of the house thanks to Prism.

I really think folks like Bradley Manning and Ed Snowden are only the start, other's within the Government will follow suit in bringing transparency one way or the other, sadly they will be a voice in a world pre-scripted and controlled by the magical dollar over human lives.
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  #42  
Old 10.06.2013, 11:28
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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....
I really think folks like Bradley Manning and Ed Snowden are only the start, other's within the Government will follow suit in bringing transparency one way or the other, sadly they will be a voice in a world pre-scripted and controlled by the magical dollar over human lives.
I really think that mostly people will be scared to come forward like Manning or Snowden did. Obama has already charged more people under Espionage Act for disclosing classified information than prior to Obama combined. Lets see what will happen with Ed Snowden now for his wistleblowing.
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  #43  
Old 10.06.2013, 11:41
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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I watched the videos, and I have to say something is a bit odd. It's not a smooth interview. There are editing cuts in weird places, etc. Snowden has shifty eyes. He speaks well and sounds informed, but something still does not add up for me. Anyone else notice the shifty eyes?
Could be from a lack of sleep. One article says that he puts pillows by the door to muffle conversations. He also puts a cover over himself when typing so that any cameras cant pick up what hes typing

I think it is totally unnecessary for him to out himself. It would have been funny for the us to bend over backwards to try to sue the guardian to release the name. It would have been embarrassing for them. This way he can just be made to disappear and the us can claim plausible deniability. (some unknown government took him in and changed his ID)
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  #44  
Old 10.06.2013, 12:00
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Straw man argument.

There is so much irrational nonsense expressed on subjects like this, most of which (IMO) is rooted in gaping at too many Hollywood thrillers where CIA agents follow our every move on banks of monitors.

We know why there is large scale monitoring of telephone traffic at a meta level, and it is nothing to do with ordinary individuals making ordinary calls. The intelligence services need to monitor traffic to and from known certain numbers and addresses and try to build a picture of terrorist or serious organised crime networks. This has been going on for many years, certainly since the 1980s, and is responsible for the prevention and detection of major attacks, and the disruption of organised crime networks.

From this, people let their imagination run riot. They ask: "What next? Today it's just global terrorism; tomorrow it will be me and my views on gay marriage or Medicaid. The government won't stop until they control us all..."

BZZZT!! Challenge!

No, it does not follow that this is that sort of slippery slope. It's a silly idea. Alarmist, sensationalist, laughable.
Your argument assumes that the government is telling the truth. That is they hid this from us and when exposed they said...yes its true but its like this. That is, only a part was exposed and now they can re-frame the truth to be less damaging.

Where are the concrete details....
-which attacks were stopped? how?
-who is in charge of the oversight
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  #45  
Old 10.06.2013, 12:22
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Is it? Can you give me an example?
Well how about
"Some countries have age of consent laws which apply not only to acts committed within the country, but also to those committed by its citizens or inhabitants while they are on foreign soil. For example, a federal United States law bans sexual activity by its citizens with foreigners or with a US citizens from another state, if any of the partners is under 18"

And so the foreigner is an Accomplice.
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  #46  
Old 10.06.2013, 12:55
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Well how about
"Some countries have age of consent laws which apply not only to acts committed within the country, but also to those committed by its citizens or inhabitants while they are on foreign soil. For example, a federal United States law bans sexual activity by its citizens with foreigners or with a US citizens from another state, if any of the partners is under 18"

And so the foreigner is an Accomplice.
When I was a kid was it perfectly legal to copy my mates' music from their tapes to mine... I had no idea back then that a part of the empty tape prices went to collection agencies and in turn paid the music industry. I frankly could not care less because in primary school do you simply not care where the pop stars get their money from.

If kids do the same today with their mp3 files can they or their parents quickly get into insane trouble for it (as in "2 Million USD for 24 songs"...).
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  #47  
Old 10.06.2013, 14:33
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

The Swiss government data privacy officer recommends in an interview with the Tages-Anzeiger to not use US based email services such as Google Mail. Considering the disdain, if not contempt, that the US government shows towards its citizens and data privacy, this seems like sound advice:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/23317779
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  #48  
Old 10.06.2013, 14:42
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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The Swiss government data privacy officer recommends in an interview with the Tages-Anzeiger to not use US based email services such as Google Mail. Considering the disdain, if not contempt, that the US government shows towards its citizens and data privacy, this seems like sound advice:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/23317779
I do not think it makes much difference as even if you use non-US based email services then you have no control over the route that your emails take; they could well be routed via US based servers.
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  #49  
Old 10.06.2013, 14:45
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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The Swiss government data privacy officer recommends in an interview with the Tages-Anzeiger to not use US based email services such as Google Mail. Considering the disdain, if not contempt, that the US government shows towards its citizens and data privacy, this seems like sound advice:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/23317779
All that I receive in my GMail is you lot reporting spammers, groans and neg rep. Quite frankly the NSA are welcome to it
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  #50  
Old 10.06.2013, 15:39
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Further to my above post, here is a link on how to cancel the following US-based email services:
Gmail
Yahoo!
Hotmail
AOL

http://www.ehow.com/how_8365131_canc...l-account.html
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  #51  
Old 10.06.2013, 16:02
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Further to my above post, here is a link on how to cancel the following US-based email services:
I guess I don't see the point, at least not if you still email anyone in the U.S. But maybe that's just me.
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  #52  
Old 10.06.2013, 17:23
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Former CIA worker Snowden told to leave Hong Kong or face extradition

What's the difference between someone working for an intelligence service who turns 'whistleblower' (does anyone seriously take on a job like that believing that they won't have to gather intelligence?) and a foreign intelligence service which wants to undermine the intelligence operations of that person's country? Especially if the 'whistleblower' then flees to a country which would have an interest in undermining his country's intelligence? That used to be called defecting.

Either he's extremely gullible or the public is gullible for believing that he's gullible.
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  #53  
Old 10.06.2013, 17:48
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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"Some countries have age of consent laws which apply not only to acts committed within the country, but also to those committed by its citizens or inhabitants while they are on foreign soil. For example, a federal United States law bans sexual activity by its citizens with foreigners or with a US citizens from another state, if any of the partners is under 180kgs".
That is probably a better quote and one which would better protect foreigners from fat Murican tourists ....
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  #54  
Old 10.06.2013, 18:38
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

What's the hype about this story? There is nothing new about it. George W. Bush even called it necessary back in 2005. A former intelligence officer essentially admitted the existence of it during an interview regarding the Boston Bombers. Haven't you seen 24 or Enemy of the State with Will Smith?


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The Swiss government data privacy officer recommends in an interview with the Tages-Anzeiger to not use US based email services such as Google Mail. Considering the disdain, if not contempt, that the US government shows towards its citizens and data privacy, this seems like sound advice:
[/url]
Buahaha. Laughable. Switzerland is the biggest listening post for Europe, ME and Africa. They pluck out information from Satellite feeds.
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  #55  
Old 10.06.2013, 19:10
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Found this quite funny
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nsa-collecting-records-all-us-phone-calls-td130607.jpg  
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  #56  
Old 10.06.2013, 19:48
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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I love how people are saying ''Yeah Government, Spy, spy Away! I love you, Invade my privacy''.

Then a suit knocks on the door, ''your under arrest''. You ask what for, they say two words, ''Patriot Act'' thanks to your FB post which read, ''I like hamas'', because you spelt Hummus wrong.

Just like the gas price theory, Corporations (aka US government) push and push till you get used to $2, then $3, then $4 etc.. All of a sudden its at $5 and your ok because the build up was slow.

Dont get me started on how a rapist gets 10x less severe sentence versus a hacktivist.

The government thinks for us, and it seems the mass loves and believes this method of government is best.
There are so many illogical conclusions with a subject like this e.g. your ''Yeah Government, Spy, spy Away! I love you, Invade my privacy''.

I don't mind the government 'spying away' because I don't equate it with 'invading my privacy', as many people do. Really, do you not see a distinction between the intelligence services doing these mega digital sweeps across swathes of numerical data looking for numbers related to known terrorists and major criminals (which they've been doing since the late 80s at least), and invading your privacy? Tell me in what way your privacy is being threatened. In fact, your privacy is being protected as far as possible by reducing the risk to you and your family from terrorist attack.

As for Hamas/hummus, I appreciate the joke but seriously, this is a great example of the sort of ridiculous levels of fear and paranoia some people exist with. There aren't very many intelligence operatives in existence. They didn't have the resources to keep tabs on the brothers who bombed the Boston Marathon despite having very strong suspicions, and being tipped off directly by Russia, so it seems likely that they have better things to do with their time than pursue someone for an obvious typo.

Hmm. That said, I'm warning to the idea of arresting people for spelling mistakes. Everything else has failed. Yeah, let's make it a criminal offence. [Insert joke here about having to 'do a long sentence'.]
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  #57  
Old 10.06.2013, 19:55
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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... There aren't very many intelligence operatives in existence. They didn't have the resources to keep tabs on the brothers who bombed the Boston Marathon despite having very strong suspicions, and being tipped off directly by Russia, so it seems likely that they have better things to do with their time than pursue someone for an obvious typo...
Okay, Boston point taken...but then what exactly were the 35,000 employees of the NSA (number according to CNN's report) doing?
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  #58  
Old 10.06.2013, 19:58
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Your argument assumes that the government is telling the truth. That is they hid this from us and when exposed they said...yes its true but its like this. That is, only a part was exposed and now they can re-frame the truth to be less damaging.

Where are the concrete details....
-which attacks were stopped? how?
-who is in charge of the oversight
There have been loads of successful prosecutions of people for terrorist-related offences following investigations led by one or other of the intelligence agencies. These investigations will almost always include telephone analysis. The court cases have often revealed that the accused were planning terrorist offences, and evidence produced to prove this e.g. 'martyr videos', rehearsals, telephone links to militant Islamists etc. I don't think there can be any doubt that these techniques have helped prevent some horrible things.

For me, any risk to my privacy (which I have trouble imagining) is a price worth paying.
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  #59  
Old 10.06.2013, 20:03
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Okay, Boston point taken...but then what exactly were the 35,000 employees of the NSA (number according to CNN's report) doing?
How do you expect me answer that? I have no idea how many of those are active surveillance agents -- very few I suspect. And even then, I have no information about what they are working on or who they are keeping tabs on. I'll bet you anything that the list doesn't include me.
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  #60  
Old 10.06.2013, 22:03
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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You need to watch fewer movies and actually read the relevant articles. They're not capturing voice traffic, they're capturing metadata.
Yes, the actual voice data is captured by Echelon.... What they don't get off the satellites, they can get off the Exchanges. My only surprise in all this is why it surprises anyone and why Europeans think their governments are immune (Hello, Menwith Hill....).
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