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  #121  
Old 25.06.2013, 18:11
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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This is why; http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/24/44...contractor-job He's an idiot and yawped his gaping gawp well past the point of defense. He should have listened to Schneier.

Nothing I've seen in the papers, US or UK, really reveals anything new or shocking...like I say, why couldn't he have gone after really top secret stuff like the JFK assassination files rather than, oh, yeah, the NSA can sift through all your telephone calls and data packets looking for stuff. I mean, it's not like gumshoe cops are knocking on doors in taking down not just terrorists, but international child porn rings....too bad that he's so young and naive as he might have looked for really interesting bits of information such as an AES backdoor, etc.
Well, yeah - there are people out there saying that he's a stooge, as they have with Assange, and Ellsberg before him:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06...ed-hangout-op/

I mean, if you wanted a 9/11 whistle-blower for instance, then there have been some - but they just don't get the publicity for some strange reason.

Makes my head hurt, I tells ya. Oh my!
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  #122  
Old 25.06.2013, 18:19
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

No private communication should be allowed to be recorded, because it is private!

NSA says that they have been able to avoid terrorist attacks which of course is bull. It is like I am writing to a friend that I want to bomb something and they arrest me and voila a terrorist attack has been avoided, uh no.....idiots...

Terrorists will be always be 1 or 2 steps ahead

NSA is doing something illegal, they are the ones that should be brought to justice, Snowden did the right thing...

But if people want to have a facist-gestapo-germany back...
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  #123  
Old 25.06.2013, 22:31
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

The crackdown on whistleblowers.... ouch!

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President Barack Obama’s unprecedented initiative, known as the Insider Threat Program, is sweeping in its reach. It has received scant public attention even though it extends beyond the U.S. national security bureaucracies to most federal departments and agencies nationwide, including the Peace Corps, the Social Security Administration and the Education and Agriculture departments. It emphasizes leaks of classified material, but catchall definitions of “insider threat” give agencies latitude to pursue and penalize a range of other conduct.

Government documents reviewed by McClatchy illustrate how some agencies are using that latitude to pursue unauthorized disclosures of any information, not just classified material. They also show how millions of federal employees and contractors must watch for “high-risk persons or behaviors” among co-workers and could face penalties, including criminal charges, for failing to report them. Leaks to the media are equated with espionage.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/06/2...#storylink=cpy
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  #124  
Old 25.06.2013, 22:38
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Now, for those who have lost their diagrams on how to make the best tin foil hat, I suggest you google it and get new ones.

Or just buy stock in foil, I think you'll need it.

Is Snowden who he purports to be?

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  #125  
Old 25.06.2013, 23:28
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Now, for those who have lost their diagrams on how to make the best tin foil hat, I suggest you google it and get new ones.

Or just buy stock in foil, I think you'll need it.

Is Snowden who he purports to be?

Don't worry, my friend - it's gripped!

http://www.eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php
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  #126  
Old 01.07.2013, 09:19
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Another reason the whole theory that this spying is only in order to protect against terrorism is balony....US Spying on EU in Brussels

Now what kind of counter-terrorism info are they getting in Brussels??

Tip of the iceberg.....
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  #127  
Old 01.07.2013, 09:34
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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No private communication should be allowed to be recorded, because it is private!

NSA says that they have been able to avoid terrorist attacks which of course is bull. It is like I am writing to a friend that I want to bomb something and they arrest me and voila a terrorist attack has been avoided, uh no.....idiots...

Terrorists will be always be 1 or 2 steps ahead

NSA is doing something illegal, they are the ones that should be brought to justice, Snowden did the right thing...

But if people want to have a facist-gestapo-germany back...
Thanks for your deep insight and valuable contribution.
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  #128  
Old 01.07.2013, 09:55
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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If this has been a common knowledge then what all that secrecy surrounding the US surveillance programs is about? If the guy has revealed nothing then why don't the US government drop the espionage charges and let him go home to his girlfriend?
Because he is not quite finished yet. Not sure if everyone follows all details: Not just were offices in the EU hacked - part of the materials he leaked have far further reaching consequences: they give unique insight what the US government REALLY thinks about other countries.

In case of my home country: Germany foots a huge part of the bills of the UN and has been a quite important Nato partner of the US for decades. We consider the US our most important partner outside the EU... even though we did not agree to the Iraq war (but for example went to Afghanistant with a significant force). The NSA docs shows us that:
- we are a "3rd class partner" - that's a country that is "just about friendly" and at the same time a target for spying. It does surprise the vast majority of Germans that we are considered to be as much of a risk as some of the more unstable middle eastern dictatorships...
- the NSA tracked on average 20 M phone calls in Germany A DAY. In a way which is illegal in Germany even for our own police and spy agencies. It also seems to break US-EU agreements...

Fortunately are some US - EU trade agreements due shortly. Germany has an election coming up, so there is a chance that some politicians might actually dare to do their job and duty... which is to protect their people according to German law. And that democratically decided law is that building data repositories of telephone records without any reasonable suspicion and in a large scale is simply not acceptable. Between partners do we expect to share intelligence rather having Americans hacking our phone lines and record as they wish.

I just follow my countries news, but Snowden's documents seems to slowly get some balls rolling around the world...


(http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...ms-us-eu-trade)
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  #129  
Old 01.07.2013, 12:07
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

It was funny a few weeks ago to see Obama stutter through reassuring people that Americans' phone calls aren't being monitored. An implicit admission that anyone outside the US is basically fair game. Now we're seeing how wide-reaching it actually is. The complete disregard Obama is showing for other nations' sovereignty would make Bush Jr. blush.
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  #130  
Old 01.07.2013, 12:27
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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It was funny a few weeks ago to see Obama stutter through reassuring people that Americans' phone calls aren't being monitored. An implicit admission that anyone outside the US is basically fair game. Now we're seeing how wide-reaching it actually is. The complete disregard Obama is showing for other nations' sovereignty would make Bush Jr. blush.
Far-reaching may be, but new it is not.
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  #131  
Old 01.07.2013, 12:36
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

It's good to know that the NSA's spying techniques and worldwide CIA infiltration into democratic nations has maintained America's quest for the pursuit of happiness. The USA, for all its eavesdropping, is clearly a country which we could all learn how to be better humans; peace loving in a sharing culture with next to no crime and striving for equal health care and mutual benefits for all, whatever your income.

Clearly something worth protecting, whatever the cost.
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  #132  
Old 01.07.2013, 14:13
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

With their thoughts about other countries exposed, this is going to make for some very dangerous times diplomatically. This could be one of the events that causes the tipping of the US away from the "world's only superpower", which it only has through the support of its allies.

I'd hope nobody here would be shocked about the fact that allied nations - or simply friendly nations - will spy on each other. That goes with the territory.

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It's good to know that the NSA's spying techniques and worldwide CIA infiltration into democratic nations has maintained America's quest for the pursuit of happiness. The USA, for all its eavesdropping, is clearly a country which we could all learn how to be better humans; peace loving in a sharing culture with next to no crime and striving for equal health care and mutual benefits for all, whatever your income.

Clearly something worth protecting, whatever the cost.
Ah, to dream.
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  #133  
Old 01.07.2013, 14:42
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

I wonder if this leak also came from Snowden or was it someone else. I am hoping for the latter because the more people come out, the more other whistle blowers may be encouraged to come out too. The more varied the info, the harder it will be for the US govt to lie about it and plug the holes. (like they are trying now with snowden)
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  #134  
Old 01.07.2013, 15:09
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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I wonder if this leak also came from Snowden or was it someone else...
Are you talking about the EU spying? If so I read somewhere yesterday that it was (allegedly) from Snowden and he released some documents to a German newspaper.
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  #135  
Old 01.07.2013, 18:56
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Are you talking about the EU spying? If so I read somewhere yesterday that it was (allegedly) from Snowden and he released some documents to a German newspaper.
Not a newspaper, but a weekly magazine called "Der Spiegel". The publication has a track record for being the most investigative journalism there is in Germany and was also one of the very few original publications working with Wikileaks on "cablegate"... so no real surprise there. The Guardian reports on the same stuff pretty much at the same time just without the focus on Germany... which is in the particular case important as for some reason I personally really do not understand the NSA decided to spend way more efforts to spy in Germany than anywhere else in the EU. It is almost a compliment - they think we are important...
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  #136  
Old 01.07.2013, 20:22
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

And now he's seeking asylum in Russia...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23138073
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  #137  
Old 01.07.2013, 23:33
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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... which is in the particular case important as for some reason I personally really do not understand the NSA decided to spend way more efforts to spy in Germany than anywhere else in the EU. It is almost a compliment - they think we are important...
...or not to be trusted?
Where were some of the hijackers in the September 11 attacks trained..?

"I really do not understand".... you are so modest.
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  #138  
Old 02.07.2013, 01:09
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Where were some of the hijackers in the September 11 attacks trained..?
Florida?
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  #139  
Old 02.07.2013, 01:17
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

There are secret treaties between countries. The recent German reactions of feigning ignorance is just for political show. They've always known what has been taking place. Their intelligence agencies will set their politicians and demogogues straight if they carry on too far.

Spying on each other has been mutually agreed on amongst friendly countries. Since the US government could not spy on its citizens, it struck an agreement with the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand to spy on US citizens on its behalf. The digitalization of communication made the capturing of sigint extremely easy, yet made the legal bounds of what it can do with that data extremely complicated. So the US seems to have decided to capture sigint on its own, as network traffic is not readily identifiable as communication until it is decoded anyway.

So while those streams of 1s and 0s are stored somewhere, those aren't actually phone conversations and internet activity yet. It is only when they are decoded can it be considered eavesdropping. For decoding, they still need judicial approval.

But there is likely to be extra-judicial eavesdropping taking place, but none of it can be used for prosecution. Any of it would quickly be thrown out of court as illegal search and seizure. It is only useful for tactical operations against national security threats.
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  #140  
Old 02.07.2013, 01:30
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Putin describes Snowden's actions as aimed at harming the US:

Putin says Snowden should stop harming "our American partners"

Interesting choice of words. Apparently, the intelligence is shared with Russia more often.
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