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  #141  
Old 02.07.2013, 15:31
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Putin describes Snowden's actions as aimed at harming the US:

Putin says Snowden should stop harming "our American partners"

Interesting choice of words. Apparently, the intelligence is shared with Russia more often.
Snowden already withdrew the request for asylum after he found out the Russia's conditions to stop "harming the US". But apparently he applied for asylum in 20 countries.

It is interesting how Ecuador has changed it's tone, rejected the asylum request and said that helping him was a mistake
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  #142  
Old 02.07.2013, 15:41
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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I wonder if this leak also came from Snowden or was it someone else. I am hoping for the latter because the more people come out, the more other whistle blowers may be encouraged to come out too. The more varied the info, the harder it will be for the US govt to lie about it and plug the holes. (like they are trying now with snowden)
I think more other whistleblowers get encouraged to come out if they stop being prosecuted by the government. Didn't Obama set the record in that already?
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  #143  
Old 02.07.2013, 15:49
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Will Switzerland let him in is the question. It's one of the 20 countries he's applied to.
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  #144  
Old 02.07.2013, 16:28
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Will Switzerland let him in is the question. It's one of the 20 countries he's applied to.
I really, really doubt that. Only if the US would OK it (which is not likely, currently).
Even if a lot of Swiss people want to piss-off the US-government, I doubt the people and the politicians have the balls to pull that one off.

Snowden is no idiot. He must have anticipated this scenario. His goal has (IMO) always been to stay "alive" and "free" for as long as possible.
And if he has to go down (he wasn't looking at two years probation anyway, right from the start), he will make sure to cause as much national and international political fallout as possible. That's why politicians are now very careful to actually say anything in public - they could be caught lying the very next day.

So, at some point he'll be transported back to the US, in a Gulfstream I would guess, and face his trial.
How that trial runs and what he is charged with, however, is not cast in stone, yet.

It looks like he downloaded a lot of top-secret stuff. The US still has got a lot of skeletons in the closet - and it looks like they were clever enough to make their allies both targets and accomplices ;-)

One thing is sure: this is for the history-books.
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  #145  
Old 02.07.2013, 17:05
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

The countries that are rejecting his applications are using the reason/excuse that he is not actually in their country - or at their embassy. If Russia says it's not going to hand him over then they could allow him to go to the various embassies in Moscow and try his luck there. But given Putin's statement and Obama's saber rattling behind the scenes that's not likely to happen. Guess he's going to be stuck in that airport for some time yet.
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  #146  
Old 02.07.2013, 17:09
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Snowden is no idiot.
I wouldn't be too sure of that.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 02.07.2013 at 20:53. Reason: spelling
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  #147  
Old 02.07.2013, 20:51
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Snowden already withdrew the request for asylum after he found out the Russia's conditions to stop "harming the US". But apparently he applied for asylum in 20 countries.

It is interesting how Ecuador has changed it's tone, rejected the asylum request and said that helping him was a mistake

20 Countries say No, or does not seem thrilled to respond. Understandable. Who wants to aid and abet rat fink thief/felon/traitor, when he does not have much to offer?

Maybe he ought to ask countries like North Korea, Syria or Iran.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...list-countries
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  #148  
Old 02.07.2013, 20:56
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

So, Venezuela's his only chance, unless he accepts the Russian deal.

It appears that he IS an idiot.

Tom
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  #149  
Old 03.07.2013, 05:04
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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So, Venezuela's his only chance, unless he accepts the Russian deal.

It appears that he IS an idiot.

Tom
Nobody is going to take that bastard as I have a feeling the US is calling in every IOU it has to get that shit back on US soil. If Putin backed off, nobody is going to have balls big enough to bother. He needs something really newsworthy or admit failure and face the music.

I giggled at NPR this morning as I was driving to work where I heard some indignant Frenchie say something to the effect that well, yes, well all KNOW everyone spies on everyone else in the EU offices, but to have confirmation of it is unforgivable....LOL. Yeah, OK, French guy as it's not like the Russians haven't been caught with their hand in that cookie jar and been pasted all over the papers before. Mon dieu!
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  #150  
Old 03.07.2013, 11:17
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Is Snowden a hero or traitor? That depends on if you view Paul Revere as a hero or traitor. It seems no country has the balls to stand up to the worlds biggest thug.

So far the best headline I've seen is "Snowden exposes criminals, criminals are going for him now"

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  #151  
Old 03.07.2013, 12:15
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

The US Army is currently blocking the Guardian's coverage of the NSA. Gee what do you have to be afraid of?
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  #152  
Old 03.07.2013, 12:33
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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The US Army is currently blocking the Guardian's coverage of the NSA. Gee what do you have to be afraid of?
War crimes, money laundering, murder and some other illegal activities committed by various corporations, world leaders and department heads.
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  #153  
Old 03.07.2013, 12:36
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

More info will be released soon. Apparently there will be two huge new revelations.

1) NSA has real time access to your email and chat. That is, they can tell when you log into your email and read along with you in real time

2) The NSA is recording 1 billion phone calls per day. They are saved and can be listened to at any time. So when Obama goes on Charlie Rose and says "the NSA cannot listen to your telephone calls, and the NSA cannot target your emails …and have not" he and many members of Congress are lying big time. The whole "meta data" Spiel is just a half truth.
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  #154  
Old 03.07.2013, 12:44
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Hmmmm, we have been watching this with interest in our house. My OH is Dem and I am a Rep. I am very staunch about privacy rules and he is a bit more liberal. Having said that, we are both in the data/research area and are very close to what these companies/govt do with your data.

When I found out Facebook sells your data to insurance cos to assess risk, banks for loans, the IRS to assess tax fraud, to big companies to assess profiles of people as potential employees, and more - all of this based on analyzing threads of convos that might include any words of risk - cancer, back tax, stock trade, s+m,anything - and they analyze your friends behaviour as people you know indicate your lifestyle -- I got off immediately. Google does this too. They sell all your info to cos and gvt orgs that you might not even know about.

This is the way the world is going but I have no desire to have myself pegged as a risk for something I took part for in a convo.

My OH and I seem to agree that monitoring messages for terrorist activities is a good use of the data. But what about all the other data they have access to? Can you imagine the possibilities to sell the data to cos? It's a bit of a slippery slope, so again watching this with interest.....at some point expect the Supreme Court to step in on privacy rights....bigger implication and Snowden might have been the impetus.
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  #155  
Old 03.07.2013, 14:47
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

The plane of Bolivian president going from Russia was grounded in Austria, held for several hours and searched. This is unbelievable I think Snowden should have accepted the Russian conditions, otherwise he will probably end up in the US jail.
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  #156  
Old 03.07.2013, 16:47
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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More info will be released soon. Apparently there will be two huge new revelations.

1) NSA has real time access to your email and chat. That is, they can tell when you log into your email and read along with you in real time

2) The NSA is recording 1 billion phone calls per day. They are saved and can be listened to at any time. So when Obama goes on Charlie Rose and says "the NSA cannot listen to your telephone calls, and the NSA cannot target your emails …and have not" he and many members of Congress are lying big time. The whole "meta data" Spiel is just a half truth.
What huge new revelations? There are a number of ways they can achieve #1 and no, they don't have to 'log in' to have that access. Remember that a network of packets is a lot like a sewer...it collects a lot of shit from every house as it goes past only this shit has contained packets that can be easily identified. Back in the stone age, I used to have hours of fun using a tool on one of the University systems I managed that allowed me to share the tty (terminal) some of the kids were using since some of them were wannabe hackers. Oh, how much fun it was to seize control when they were on IRC and tell all their hacker buddies how tiny their pecker was, etc. just before I killed them off the system forcing them to come see me about a password problem.

Having a giant pile of data is also not that exciting because you have to know what to look for and, for the feds, that seems to be an issue in progress (hence 'meta data' speil) otherwise we'd not have had the Boston Marathon bombing.
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Old 03.07.2013, 16:49
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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The plane of Bolivian president going from Russia was grounded in Austria, held for several hours and searched. This is unbelievable I think Snowden should have accepted the Russian conditions, otherwise he will probably end up in the US jail.
Again, think about all the things that have to happen to have a diplomatic plane of Bolivia grounded in Austria and searched. The Americans will have him in custody soon as nobody is going to touch him. NOBODY. I hope he enjoys his stay in Gitmo.
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Old 03.07.2013, 17:34
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Again, think about all the things that have to happen to have a diplomatic plane of Bolivia grounded in Austria and searched. The Americans will have him in custody soon as nobody is going to touch him. NOBODY. I hope he enjoys his stay in Gitmo.
It seems you don't like it when people may expose criminals and bring forth the truth? No? Or just a personal vendetta against someone hacking into computers?

Who cares about the NSA spying on everybody? We already knew that, a long time ago. NSA is a smoke mirror at this point. The reason the world does not want this man is because of the information that these packets contain. These aren't random packets with random information. I can't give my sources or any info other than this, Edward Snowden is wanted or dead or deader and the U.S will do ANYTHING to bring him down. The info he has is enough to send some of the worlds most powerful criminals to jail. Why do you think he went to China and Russia? Maybe because they are the only two countries with militaries big enough for the U.S to take a second thought before invading?
You may call Snowden a criminal or stupid but I can almost garuntee that our grandchildren will study this man as a modern day Paul Revere, the one who kick started a revolution.
How do I know? Just look at how desperate the U.S is in trying to apprehend him, AND the fact that the entire intelligence community is going ape shit.
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Old 03.07.2013, 17:50
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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It seems you don't like it when people may expose criminals and bring forth the truth? No? Or just a personal vendetta against someone hacking into computers?

Who cares about the NSA spying on everybody? We already knew that, a long time ago. NSA is a smoke mirror at this point. The reason the world does not want this man is because of the information that these packets contain. These aren't random packets with random information. I can't give my sources or any info other than this, Edward Snowden is wanted or dead or deader and the U.S will do ANYTHING to bring him down. The info he has is enough to send some of the worlds most powerful criminals to jail. Why do you think he went to China and Russia? Maybe because they are the only two countries with militaries big enough for the U.S to take a second thought before invading?
You may call Snowden a criminal or stupid but I can almost garuntee that our grandchildren will study this man as a modern day Paul Revere, the one who kick started a revolution.
How do I know? Just look at how desperate the U.S is in trying to apprehend him, AND the fact that the entire intelligence community is going ape shit.

This is a very interesting commentary. We discuss this much....what was in it for him? Why did he do it? From what we heard, he was never part of the initial project to collect the data but he 'threatened' his company with what he knew about it and demanded to be brought into the project.
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Old 03.07.2013, 18:16
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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...what was in it for him? Why did he do it?
Because some people have morals and a sense for what's right. Which is why I avoided my chosen path in the the military/intelligence regime. I think someone posted a link how this may be internal fighting between NSA and the CIA, and that may be how this all started and how he got such high level clearance but in the end he may bring both down. He is not alone in this ploy, just the poster boy/ scapegoat.

Did anyone else notice how sheepishly Obama defended the NSA? A man who normally stands proudly and never has a problem with words was slouched over stuttering the standard mantra of "to protect the American people" "safe from terrorists" "blah, blah, blah" ? NSA owns Obama and every other elected official. They know their secrets.
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