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  #161  
Old 03.07.2013, 19:24
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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NSA owns Obama and every other elected official. They know their secrets.
And from what can be gathered, they also know a lot of secrets of a lot of other elected officials in a lot of other countries.

I'm actually beyond disappointed from the politicians here in Europe.
All of them.

Disappointed - and disgusted.
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  #162  
Old 03.07.2013, 20:27
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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It seems you don't like it when people may expose criminals and bring forth the truth? No? Or just a personal vendetta against someone hacking into computers?
What truth? No, as a professional Systems Eng, I'm pretty irate that he took the job specifically for 'whistle blowing' and, again, without much effect. We are the folks who could spend our time reading all the internet email outside of the NSA if we wanted to but we tend to hold ourselves to a higher standard. I've had my had my arm up to my elbow in stuff I didn't quite care for but....if you agree to uphold privacy for all you can't suddenly decide it should be privacy for some that you personally decide upon. It's not a vendetta, just a disdain for idiots. And, please, he's no hacker.

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Who cares about the NSA spying on everybody? We already knew that, a long time ago. NSA is a smoke mirror at this point. The reason the world does not want this man is because of the information that these packets contain. These aren't random packets with random information. I can't give my sources or any info other than this, Edward Snowden is wanted or dead or deader and the U.S will do ANYTHING to bring him down. The info he has is enough to send some of the worlds most powerful criminals to jail. Why do you think he went to China and Russia? Maybe because they are the only two countries with militaries big enough for the U.S to take a second thought before invading?
You may call Snowden a criminal or stupid but I can almost garuntee that our grandchildren will study this man as a modern day Paul Revere, the one who kick started a revolution.
How do I know? Just look at how desperate the U.S is in trying to apprehend him, AND the fact that the entire intelligence community is going ape shit.
Why would they kill him when making an extreme example of him would be far more effective. If they wanted him dead, I think that could have been arranged by now. But, yes, they do want him and for good reason.

And, JFC on a pogo stick, he's no Paul Revere. What is so heroic about exposing your signals and wire intelligence to the world, the entire world, most of who either do the exact same stuff or only wish they could.
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  #163  
Old 03.07.2013, 22:45
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Lots of imagination gone wild. I'm amazed that some believe Snowden somehow prevented wars or found criminals. I don't think the US is as piturbed about all this as some imagine. They will continue to conduct regular business despite all this.

This seems to touch on people's paranoia of being watched, as if they cared enough to pay any attention to any of you. Proof positive that the News Media no longer simply report the News, but more often create the news.


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I think someone posted a link how this may be internal fighting between NSA and the CIA, and that may be how this all started and how he got such high level clearance but in the end he may bring both down. He is not alone in this ploy, just the poster boy/ scapegoat.
The NSA and the CIA are always jockeying for attention and funding, but that is nothing new. It is just regular office politics. They are on the same team and do not try to bury each other. They have different roles and functions. The NSA simply gathers information, and rarely acts on them, unless there is an imminent threat to National Security. The CIA is a client of NSA's information services, so why would they want to go after their supplier of their information?

It is the CIA that acts on information and conducts analytics to ensure that the spice flows. Remember that whenever you consume goods and resources that come from diverse parts of the world. I'm glad to report that none of this has crippled modern civilization. Enjoy your summer travels.

Last edited by Phos; 03.07.2013 at 22:56.
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  #164  
Old 04.07.2013, 17:28
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

It seems likely that France has been doing the same as US and the UK,

The French government has sharply criticised the US spying, which allegedly included eavesdropping on official EU communications.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23178284

France's foreign intelligence service intercepts computer and telephone data on a vast scale, like the controversial US Prism programme, according to the French daily Le Monde.

There is a continuing international furore over revelations that the US has been systematically seizing vast amounts of phone and web data.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22853432
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  #165  
Old 04.07.2013, 18:23
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

ah... duh...

Even Switzerland maintains a surveillance system called Onyx that intercepts communications. In 2006, someone leaked an intercepted fax from Egypt to the Egyptian embassy in London about secret CIA detention centers in Eastern Europe. Interesting that Switzerland can snoop that far, isn't it?
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  #166  
Old 04.07.2013, 18:58
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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I'm actually beyond disappointed from the politicians here in Europe.
All of them.

Disappointed - and disgusted.

That implies that you actually expected something good from them? Interesting
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  #167  
Old 04.07.2013, 20:13
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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That implies that you actually expected something good from them? Interesting
Yes, and I have lowered my standards in the past, already.
Repeatedly.
I actually still thought that Europe (and Germany) was supposed to be a constitutional democracy - and not some sort of democracy theater where laws and a constitution "usually apply, unless it's on this (growing) list of exceptions".

Now, we (well, I) see that it's just an expensive theater where mildly talented actors play the same comedy over and over again, in variations, each time less funny than the previous season.

And I like to think of myself as somebody who actually still has (had) some interest in day-to-day politics.

The political fall-out from this (at the ballot-box) will be horrible.
Not that people will somehow start voting for other parties - they'll stop voting altogether.
Indifference is the end of every democracy.
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  #168  
Old 04.07.2013, 20:41
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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ah... duh...

Even Switzerland maintains a surveillance system called Onyx that intercepts communications. In 2006, someone leaked an intercepted fax from Egypt to the Egyptian embassy in London about secret CIA detention centers in Eastern Europe. Interesting that Switzerland can snoop that far, isn't it?
As do the French

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23178284

Just a fact of modern day life, if we want the convenience of simply fast communications we need to accept that governments want to look at us
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  #169  
Old 04.07.2013, 22:15
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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I actually still thought that Europe (and Germany) was supposed to be a constitutional democracy - and not some sort of democracy theater where laws and a constitution "usually apply, unless it's on this (growing) list of exceptions".
I don't see how collecting information is contradictory to a constitutional democracy.
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  #170  
Old 04.07.2013, 22:50
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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I don't see how collecting information is contradictory to a constitutional democracy.
And I don't see how a constitutional democracy can exist in the long term without transparency and oversight.
That is the main issue I have with this whole thing.
People have no control over how much data is collected from them or how and when it is used - one has to "trust" the people in charge.
But from all of what we know, there is little oversight (and what is there is not public) and no transparency on the process of collecting, cross-referencing and evaluating all that data.
It could, it probably already has ended up in the wrong hands (if, as some people insinuate, Snowden is not much more than a Russian spy) - and this "leak" is just different in that it's public.
It could and probably was already used to blackmail (or "strong-arm") people and simply for economic espionage.
If he'd dumped the data to the Chinese and disappeared, we'd have never heard of this.

Sure, transparency and oversight would make this "intelligence"-business much more difficult and much less effective - but I believe that is a price both we as a society and the spooks have to pay in order not to end up in a dystopian future where all your past life (digital, analog) is for sale to the highest corporate bidder.

I admit, my country has a bit of a history with collecting data on citizens.
Nothing good ever came out of it - and at the time, the technical capabilities to cross-connect all that data were orders of magnitude smaller than today - and that's why I'm ultra-sensitive to this issue.

It's a slippery slope the US has lead the world onto.
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  #171  
Old 05.07.2013, 11:42
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Now Iceland is considering granting the citizenship to Snowden. Maybe this will work out for him.
http://rt.com/news/iceland-citizensh...en-pirate-676/

The longer I follow the story the more I think that the whole Snowden leak is pure public relation scandal. Everybody knows about the phone data collection, everybody does it or wants to do it, but the fact and details of the collection are kept top secret and shouldn't be discussed. This is the gap between the official propaganda and the reality that Snowden has crossed. The only damage he inflicted is the damage to the US image, that's his only crime I find it amusing to see how the top officials are trying to repair the damage and expressing their anger at the guy and anybody who tries to help him. I have no sympathy for this. Maybe this is the most significant outcome of the leak -- to demonstrate the double-think of our system one more time
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  #172  
Old 05.07.2013, 16:59
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Perhaps more insight as to why the US are in such a panic, the guy is a lot more than the minor low level person they are describing him as, whilst putting all this pressure on nations to get his ass back:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nsa-tr...124901047.html
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  #173  
Old 05.07.2013, 21:16
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Perhaps more insight as to why the US are in such a panic, the guy is a lot more than the minor low level person they are describing him as, whilst putting all this pressure on nations to get his ass back:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nsa-tr...124901047.html
I've seen some of the IRC transcripts...he's no 'elite hacker'. Just because lots of journos have no clue as to what this is all about doesn't automatically make him a savant.
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  #174  
Old 05.07.2013, 21:36
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Perhaps more insight as to why the US are in such a panic, the guy is a lot more than the minor low level person they are describing him as, whilst putting all this pressure on nations to get his ass back:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nsa-tr...124901047.html

I'm not seeing any signs of the US in a panic. Some even seem to yawn. I only see the regular news entertainment trying to make news rather than reporting it. There seems to be attempts to make the story bigger than it is. The NSA is sufficiently able to articulate why the surveillance is necessary. Enough people support it.

It could be a fun story if he turns out to be the geek version of Jason Bourne. Its more fun to publish spectacular stories like that, although it really is for entertainment value rather the anything useful or informative.
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  #175  
Old 06.07.2013, 15:02
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

A couple of asylum offers - if he can get there:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23201774

I find it appalling that a legtimate asylum seeker can't travel without risk due to pressure from the US. With any luck Russia will stick him on one of their submarines and take him out that way.
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  #176  
Old 06.07.2013, 20:14
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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I find it appalling that a legtimate asylum seeker can't travel without risk due to pressure from the US.
Who decided that he is a legitimate asylum seeker? Political asylum is granted to people who are prosecuted based on their political beliefs. Snowden is not, he is prosecuted for the actions he admitted he did - which happen to break a couple of laws. Political asylum is not for criminals... even if we do not agree with this or that law in other countries.

I have a lot of sympathy for his actions, but I cannot tune into "let's just forget about the laws and grant him asylum" - he knew exactly what he was doing, he decided to do it anyway - so he has to accept the consequences.
(Only exception would be if he was facing the death penalty - in which case he should be granted asylum... but that does not seem to be the case here.)
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  #177  
Old 06.07.2013, 21:08
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Who decided that he is a legitimate asylum seeker? Political asylum is granted to people who are prosecuted based on their political beliefs. Snowden is not, he is prosecuted for the actions he admitted he did - which happen to break a couple of laws. Political asylum is not for criminals... even if we do not agree with this or that law in other countries.

I have a lot of sympathy for his actions, but I cannot tune into "let's just forget about the laws and grant him asylum" - he knew exactly what he was doing, he decided to do it anyway - so he has to accept the consequences.
(Only exception would be if he was facing the death penalty - in which case he should be granted asylum... but that does not seem to be the case here.)
Asylum can be other than political you know. Assange is holed up in Ecuador's embassy because of sex charges against him. Nothing political about that.

In any case, his political belief may be that people should know about this and the US is persecuting him because of it. Given that many others have been granted asylum for speaking out through the years I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to seek it.
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  #178  
Old 09.07.2013, 15:11
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Very interesting opinions from Susan Lindauer, a former whistleblower.

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  #179  
Old 25.07.2013, 13:46
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

It seems that when the NSA lies, they at least have a sense of humor about it. Apparently they can't even do a mass search of their own email.
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  #180  
Old 25.07.2013, 18:15
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

More and more companies now have non-disclosure contracts, they are no different than a cia or military, animal factory farming non-disclosure contract. I think they should become void when the company, cia or military does wrongdoing, but thats not the case . These non disclosure contracts are being used to hide wrong doing. Who in their right mind thinks thats ok?

Remember the one of smoking, would you have preferred not to know what the tobacco companies where doing? That man was persecuted not only by the tobacco companies but also by the FBI!

or perhaps would you persecute someone for revealing NHS shortcomings that affect your family (They have non disclosure contracts).

I think snowdon and bradley and assange have done something heroically brave, I doubt any one of the ones posting on here calling him a shit/rat would have the guts to take on the US govt. These men have essentially committed a form of life-suicide for our greater good.
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