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Old 06.06.2013, 14:08
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NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

The court order

Article link

Wow! Always suspected this was the case, but now its in the open and undeniable. Funny thing is that just 2 weeks ago I watched a clip of the head of the NSA denying to congress that the NSA was collecting phone records wholesale.

What do you guys think?

For me, it reinforces my view that since 9/11 draconian laws have been drafted and civil liberties eroded in the name of the War on Terror, and while publicly government would always say these laws target only "the worst of the worst" and al-Qaeda, and other militant groups, what we have seen though is that the laws have been turned around and used against the general populations of their own countries!

PS. I am pretty sure that the US Govt. is not alone in gathering this sort of information. They're just the first to be caught..
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Old 06.06.2013, 14:48
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

I think the answer is Yes and No. For many, many years now, phone calls have been transmitted digitally. Network streams of digital packets contain multiple phone conversations. The whole stream can be captured and stored.

So that captured stream contains phone calls, but they aren't actually phone calls, until they are decoded. So if they have an archive from 5 years ago, they can extract a phone conversation.

I think I posted about this many years ago. New laws were introduced to widen the scope of wiretapping. Previously, with analog phone systems, law enforcement would get a judge to agree to a wiretap. They would then tap a phone line from that point in time. But digital communications allows the capture of all phone calls that go through particular switches. Not only can they capture present and future phone calls, they can even retrieve phone calls made in the past.
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Old 06.06.2013, 15:09
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

And this link too:

Well, they don't call it "The Land of the Free" for nothing. That is, free to presume you're a terrorist because you've grown a beard, eaten Lebanese hummus, or mis-dialed a call to Russia.

Define security, define freedom and then compare those virtues to paranoia. It was easy to bait the Soviets about the Berlin Wall decades ago, but defend the Mexico-United States barrier now.

One man's well integrated neighbor may well have an NSA file thicker than a Manhattan phone book. Do we really think we ought to know everything, or do we trust "those who keep our nation safe" to do a good job? If you were old enough to remember McCarthysim and all the "Reds under your Bed" propaganda from the 1950s, you'll know that the US Government loves to keep an eagle eye on its subjects.

When it comes to the crunch, I'd still prefer to live the American way than cope with what the Russians have to put up with; but the price one pays in personal liberties is high and freedom isn't all the word itself promises.

(*This public posting is held on file under: NSA-06-06-2013_789213-79218-AJHY_897-ASSASSIN. Monitor status - continued, code orange.)
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Old 06.06.2013, 17:34
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Its actually not so bad, if you haven't done anything wrong. I don't see any personal liberties hampered by this, other than the liberty to cause some damage to country. We still have due process, and none of that data can be used in court for prosecution. The NSA uses it to collect data to pull up when they need it. For National Security purposes, I'm glad they do it. But if you are doing some wrong, then it is bad.. very, very bad.
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Old 06.06.2013, 18:27
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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And this link too:

Well, they don't call it "The Land of the Free" for nothing. That is, free to presume you're a terrorist because you've grown a beard, eaten Lebanese hummus, or mis-dialed a call to Russia.

Define security, define freedom and then compare those virtues to paranoia. It was easy to bait the Soviets about the Berlin Wall decades ago, but defend the Mexico-United States barrier now.

One man's well integrated neighbor may well have an NSA file thicker than a Manhattan phone book. Do we really think we ought to know everything, or do we trust "those who keep our nation safe" to do a good job? If you were old enough to remember McCarthysim and all the "Reds under your Bed" propaganda from the 1950s, you'll know that the US Government loves to keep an eagle eye on its subjects.

When it comes to the crunch, I'd still prefer to live the American way than cope with what the Russians have to put up with; but the price one pays in personal liberties is high and freedom isn't all the word itself promises.

(*This public posting is held on file under: NSA-06-06-2013_789213-79218-AJHY_897-ASSASSIN. Monitor status - continued, code orange.)
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Old 06.06.2013, 18:30
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Its actually not so bad, if you haven't done anything wrong. I don't see any personal liberties hampered by this, other than the liberty to cause some damage to country. We still have due process, and none of that data can be used in court for prosecution. The NSA uses it to collect data to pull up when they need it. For National Security purposes, I'm glad they do it. But if you are doing some wrong, then it is bad.. very, very bad.
If you think that a citizen will be guilty of a crime once or twice a week without knowing it, this is stuff from the STASI for dummies book, then you have the secret courts in the UK and the US, you sure that you are talking about the land of the free?
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Old 06.06.2013, 18:35
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

phoning a business that gave you shitty service and muttering sarin, abu hamza, mujahideen, etc will make the life interesting
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Old 06.06.2013, 18:43
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Just wait. They see calls between US and CH and will assume there's some sneaky FATCA avoidance going on.
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Old 06.06.2013, 19:01
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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If you think that a citizen will be guilty of a crime once or twice a week without knowing it, this is stuff from the STASI for dummies book, then you have the secret courts in the UK and the US, you sure that you are talking about the land of the free?
Sure. The "Free" is not all-inclusively anybody and everybody. It never was. I don't know how anyone can get that idea. The "Free" only connotes some individuals.
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Old 06.06.2013, 19:30
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Well, ya!! They are collecting phone calls and everything else for that matter. Gotta fill up that gargantuan data centre in Utah with sumthin'.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/04/...nter-watching/
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Old 06.06.2013, 20:23
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

The USA is at war. It has enemies, foreign and domestic. Such a system would be very appreciated when needed.


Oh, this thread is likely stored somewhere....

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Dear Admiral Pointdexter,

Brilliant work with DARPA and all your accomplishments. I'm a HUGE fan of yours. Thank you for developing the Internet.

Cheers!

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Old 06.06.2013, 21:23
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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The USA is at war. It has enemies, foreign and domestic. Such a system would be very appreciated when needed.


Oh, this thread is likely stored somewhere....

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#DARPA#Pointdexter

Dear Admiral Pointdexter,

Brilliant work with DARPA and all your accomplishments. I'm a HUGE fan of yours. Thank you for developing the Internet.

Cheers!

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And that is the bugger of our society, technology lets us do more and more, even (in my humble opinion) as far as advancing our evolution, but at the same time society clamps in and lets us do less and less.
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Old 06.06.2013, 22:15
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

I often hear the argument that if you've done nothing wrong, then you've got nothing to hide.

Which is ironic, considering the secrecy used in making and implementing this arrangement.
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Old 06.06.2013, 22:36
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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I often hear the argument that if you've done nothing wrong, then you've got nothing to hide.

Which is ironic, considering the secrecy used in making and implementing this arrangement.
Yes! Hear that kind of argument, but more from the right-ish side of the political spectrum, it is just the question of who defines what is right and wrong.
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Old 06.06.2013, 22:44
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Its actually not so bad, if you haven't done anything wrong.
Well, that would depend on what is considered wrong and who's defining it. Just ask James Rosen.
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Old 06.06.2013, 23:56
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

Isn't it simply that their interest gets sparked if you say certain words? or subjects?

I don't mind it , got nothing to hide and if they can catch the bad ones that way then so be it. And I know governments have to do things sometimes that would be questionable but I deem it necessary in todays society and the people living in it.

Sometimes I think about being the head of the CIA just to know everything that goes on or has happened.......
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Old 07.06.2013, 07:49
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Isn't it simply that their interest gets sparked if you say certain words? or subjects?
You need to watch fewer movies and actually read the relevant articles. They're not capturing voice traffic, they're capturing metadata.
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Old 07.06.2013, 09:28
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22809541

Two points. I don't see why Congress is squealing about this as they seem to have approved it. And why shouldn't American citizens be targetted? There are plenty of home-grown terrorists making plans to cause death and destruction.
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Old 07.06.2013, 09:57
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

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Isn't it simply that their interest gets sparked if you say certain words? or subjects?
Yes, but that is some completely different topic. Those are automatic recordings of calls... they do that since the 1970s. In this case nobody actually listens what you were saying - the only data is the RECORD of the call.

"Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered."

The idea is simple: Create a massive database, analyse known cases of terrorists and how they behaved... and then look for people who follow the same pattern. One call to the wrong number does not make a pattern. But if you happen to call the same pizza delivery with a similar frequency than the Boston bomber...

This is fairly complex work and I bet they will have hundreds of false positives... and that would be the right question to ask: What happens if their research identifies a potential candidate? What do they check, how do they do it?

The key is that this data collection is just the entry point - the worse potential right infringements come in the next step.
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Old 07.06.2013, 10:03
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Re: NSA collecting records of all US phone calls

I dont personally see an issue with this. Given the volume of phone conversations it is obviously monitored by computer algorithms. There is no secret agent in a dark bunker listening to your conversations. They are quite obviously scanning for key words.

I'd actually be happy if they monitor the convesations for terrorist activities. If it gives them a head start on terrorist activities and an opportunity to thwart them before they happen, I see it as a positive.

Trust me they are not interested in your conversations about what you bought in your last shopping trip, how worried you are for your ill grandmother, or even the raunchy conversations that you have with your boyfriend or girlfriend.
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