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  #1201  
Old 12.02.2015, 12:09
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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There are rumours floating around on "social media" that an Ukraine militia has shot down a Russian SU25!
Would be good if anyone here could verify this or not. Seems to be "well" timed before tomorrow's peace talks
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MOSCOW, February 11. /TASS/. Flights of the Sukhoi Su-24 jets have been suspended until the causes of the Wednesday morning crash of this type of aircraft that took place outside Volgograd are investigated, the press service of the Russian Defense Ministry reported.
http://tass.ru/en/russia/776867

Russia confirms a SU-24 crash on the same day as Ukraine militias claim to have shot one down. Did they shoot it down, or did it crash due to mechanical or other reasons is a question tho. Like always in this war, facts are always murky.



In other news, it looks like there is "80%" of an agreement made on a cease-fire, that should begin on midnight Valentine's Day, let's see if the "love" will last, or if heart-break will follow.... As we have seen before, words/agreements/papers are cheap if not followed up by actions.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/12/eu...aine-conflict/
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  #1202  
Old 12.02.2015, 12:13
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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http://tass.ru/en/russia/776867

Russia confirms a SU-24 crash on the same day as Ukraine militias claim to have shot one down. Did they shoot it down, or did it crash due to mechanical or other reasons is a question tho. Like always in this war, facts are always murky.



In other news, it looks like there is "80%" of an agreement made on a cease-fire, that should begin on midnight Valentine's Day, let's see if the "love" will last, or if heart-break will follow.... As we have seen before, words/agreements/papers are cheap if not followed up by actions.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/12/eu...aine-conflict/
Amen to peace; let us hope the shooting stops

Smart move having Putin make the first announcement; feed the ego!

Last edited by marton; 12.02.2015 at 12:50.
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  #1203  
Old 12.02.2015, 12:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Amazing how Putin has nothing to do with Ukraine, but can negotiate a cease fire. It's a miracle, St. Vlad.

I hope it holds.
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  #1204  
Old 12.02.2015, 13:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Amazing how Putin has nothing to do with Ukraine, but can negotiate a cease fire. It's a miracle, St. Vlad.

I hope it holds.
Merkel and Hollande also have been negotiating -- do you think they have anything to do with Ukraine?

I don't believe that the peace will hold. The ceasefire will be broken, and a bigger war will be started...
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  #1205  
Old 12.02.2015, 13:56
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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(The US arming Ukraine) would also force the Kremlin to “respond asymmetrically against Washington or its allies on other fronts,” the publication reported. "We can also encourage Iran, or even back Iran in a fight — a military operation — with Saudi Arabia, so then the prices for oil will skyrocket," the source said.
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Interesting theory floated by Russian sources. Actually not a bad idea, from the Russian POV. It would punish the US and help restore the Russian economy. Of course it would isolate them further from the rest of the world, but they don't seem to be too worried about that lately.
How would it punish the US. They would just increase fracking to stop the need to import.

Why on earth would Iran do this? Once the Strait of Hormuz is closed they could not export oil and their economy would go into the dustbin.

If the US responded by closing the Black sea and Baltic then Russia exports would not look so good.
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  #1206  
Old 12.02.2015, 15:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I cannot believe Russia will do away without a land passage to Crimea, but I cannot imagine Ukraine agreed already to it.
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  #1207  
Old 12.02.2015, 15:54
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I cannot believe Russia will do away without a land passage to Crimea, but I cannot imagine Ukraine agreed already to it.
According to 20min.ch today Russia has shipped 50 tanks and assorted weaponry to Ukraine today; hope not
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  #1208  
Old 12.02.2015, 18:06
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Merkel and Hollande also have been negotiating -- do you think they have anything to do with Ukraine?
Of course they do, Ukraine is trying to turn towards them (the EU), and Russia is bombing them. EU/NATO/US is too afraid to arm Ukraine, so they sent them to try to talk about it. I don't think this peace will last either neither warring side really accepts the terms. The EU pushed Poroshenko to sign, and Putin pushed the pro-Russians rebels to sign...

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This is a time bomb under today's deal that Russia could detonate at any moment if it is unhappy with Ukraine's compliance with the rest of the terms. In fact, Russia showed its negotiating partners this morning how that could happen: the leaders of the two self-declared "people's republics" of eastern Ukraine, who were present in Minsk but not taking part in the main talks, briefly refused to approve the deal about an hour before it was made public, although they eventually signed on.
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Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, for his part, will find it hard to spin the deal as his victory. It's no wonder he stormed out of the meeting room several times during the night and even told an AFP reporter this morning that Russia's position in the talks was "unacceptable" -- less than two hours before accepting the agreement. Both Merkel and Hollande placed a special emphasis on praising him in their remarks after the talks, and they also invited him to a European Union summit in Brussels today. This is Poroshenko's consolation prize: Even if his country is still being violated, the Western leaders are willing to treat him as an ally.
http://www.bloombergview.com/article...e-s-cease-fire

Last edited by esto; 12.02.2015 at 18:59.
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  #1209  
Old 12.02.2015, 19:17
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Of course they do, Ukraine is trying to turn towards them (the EU), and Russia is bombing them. EU/NATO/US is too afraid to arm Ukraine, so they sent them to try to talk about it. I don't think this peace will last either
I think Russia will continue to protect its interests and position...and it's going to be a long struggle. Such a pity that lots of people will be killed in the process, and very likely not even after 20-30 years will be clear that it was all worth it.
Sigh.
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  #1210  
Old 12.02.2015, 19:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Supposedly Moscow threatened that it might back another candidate in Belorussian presidential elections 2015. The Baltic states might also be a "threat" to Russia's interests.
It's not over yer.
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  #1211  
Old 12.02.2015, 19:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Supposedly Moscow threatened that it might back another candidate in Belorussian presidential elections 2015. The Baltic states might also be a "threat" to Russia's interests.
It's not over yer.
Sometimes it's...seduction. Hungary is very close to Mother Russia these days...
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  #1212  
Old 12.02.2015, 21:08
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Perfect drawing, that about sums up the talks LOL

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  #1213  
Old 13.02.2015, 15:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

A WWII memorial somewhere in Russia

About 120 names on the WWII memorial. Today the village of дупленская has about 1100 inhabitants.

But look at the dates - according to Russia the WWII started in 1941, and not when they invaded Poland or Finland.

Russia is full of BS.
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  #1214  
Old 13.02.2015, 16:18
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

All the effort for the Ukraine to lean towards the EU, only to possibly be turned downed for membership by the EU: "Dear Ukraine. We regret to inform you that we have raised our standards for EU membership, after the Greece fiasco, and will not be able to admit you".
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  #1215  
Old 13.02.2015, 17:17
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/20...to-double.html

"The Saker"

What this author thinks Putin has achieved:

In no particular order...

broken the back of the AngloZionist-backed oligarchy in Russia.

achieved a truly miraculous success in Chechnia (one which nobody, prophets included, had foreseen).

literally resurrected the Russian economy.

rebuilt the Russian military, security and intelligences forces.

severely disrupted the ability of foreign NGOs to subvert Russia.

done more for the de-dollarization of the planet than anybody before.

made Russia the clear leader of both BRICS and SCO.

openly challenged the informational monopoly of the western propaganda machine (with projects like RussiaToday).

stopped an imminent US/NATO strike on Syria by sending in a Russian Navy Expeditionary Force (which gave Syria a full radar coverage of the entire region).

made it possible for Assad to prevail in the Syrian civil war.

openly rejected the Western "universal civilizational model" and declared his support for another, a religion and tradition based one.

openly rejected a unipolar "New World Order" lead by the AngloZionists and declared his support for a multi-polar world order.

supported Assange (through RussiaToday) and protected Snowden

created and promoted a new alliance model between Christianity and Islam thus undermining the "clash of civilization" paradigm.

booted the AngloZionists out of key locations in the Caucasus (Chechnia, Ossetia).

booted the AngloZionists out of key locations in Central Asia (Manas base in Kyrgyzstan)

gave Russia the means to defend her interest in the Arctic region, including military means.

established a full-spectrum strategic alliance with China which is at the core of both SCO and BRICS.

is currently passing laws barring foreign interests from controlling the Russian media.

gave Iran the means to develop a much needed civilian nuclear program.

is working with China to create a financial system fully separated form the current AngloZionist controlled one (including trade in Rubles or Renminbi).

re-establised Russian political and economic support for Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Brazil, Nicaragua and Argentina.

very effectively deflated the pro-US color-coded revolution in Russia.

organized the "Voentorg" which armed the NAF.

gave refuge to hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees.

sent in vitally needed humanitarian aid to Novorussia.

provided direct Russian fire support and possibly even air cover to NAF in key locations (the "southern cauldron" for example).

last but not least, he openly spoke of the need for Russia to "sovereignize" herself and to prevail over the pro-US 5th column.

.........

Quite a list yes? I am not stating that this is true but it is interesting to read. If anyone has any comments on this author I would be interested to read them.

I think it would be be foolish for anyone to underestimate Putin. This man rose from being a homeless kid to the head of Russia. I have seen Yt videos on Putin explaining his rise to power. Although they are very dodgy at best, like so many other Yt vids. Perhaps i should look into any books on the man as well.

This is a straight copy and paste from this web site. I just discovered it today so have had not time to research into the web site or the author.
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Old 13.02.2015, 17:30
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I think it would be be foolish for anyone to underestimate Putin.
No doubt that Putin is a great and capable man. I believe the issue and doubt is, capable of what?
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Old 13.02.2015, 17:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

AngloZionists

sigh!
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Old 13.02.2015, 19:08
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Amazing how Putin has nothing to do with Ukraine, but can negotiate a cease fire. It's a miracle, St. Vlad.
No miracle in any near future. Nothing can stop the Eastern militia to stop fighting at this point. No Putin, no anybody else. The cease fire is an illusion. It doesn't matter whether Putin is for or against it. They could ask a Dalaï Lama for support, it would be the same deaf ear in Donetsk & co.
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Old 13.02.2015, 20:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No doubt that Putin is a great and capable man. I believe the issue and doubt is, capable of what?
Well the Russians have what they want. Crimea is now well and truly under Russian control at least for the forseeable future. A 95% result in favour of Russia saw to that.

I tend to think of Putin a as "because I can" man. Needs to be kept on a leash like so many other dictators and world leaders.

But if I was going to place a bet on Putin or Obama it realy is a no brainer. Putin is much sneakier than Obama. Especially considering the massive support that the US president recieves.

Now the US is stuck with Ukraine like it or not and who in their right mind wants a country that is basicaly in ruins? And it wont take long before those Nazis who officialy run Ukraine get on the wrong side of the population. And when that time comes Russia will not step back in. They have Crimea and Crimea wants Russia not Nazis.

I know Nazis and full blown communists are a choice from hell to choose from but if it was me I would go for the communists. We and the Jews have already seen what Nazis are capable of.

Basicaly Ukraine is screwed.

Just another country that the US military elite have turned into a blood bath. And what has happened is nothing compared to what is going to happen when the people turn against the government.
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Old 13.02.2015, 21:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I'm not actually sure how and why this is a US issue. It looks more like a West-East issue. Sure, Europe is spineless and would rather resign from their responsibilities. Between Obama and Putin, Putin has more range of options and strategy as a dictator, so has the latitude to accomplish more. Obama can hardly take a vacation without his expenses being scrutinized. But between West and Russia, its pretty clear where the Ukrainians want to turn.

From Putin's perspective, he's got a hook on Ukraine to prevent what he fears most - Ukraine joining NATO. I believe that is his primary objective in all this. So he may very well won Ukraine, and the Ukrainians may very well suffer in resistance. But you do have all the other Eastern countries witnessing what is taking place here. That is the bigger stake - how far Russian expansionism be allowed to go?

At the moment, nobody has any apetite for military war. The war being waged on the economic front is lucrative enough.

I think Europe bears more responsibility here than the US. I believe we just saw them appease Putin. They can't passive-aggressively behave like that, and then expect to run behind the US. And I don't think the US should be fighting their fights for them either.

At this point, I think Ukraine needs to reckon where they want to go. They may be better off splitting up, or look for a path for reconciliation. At the moment, they are committing suicide.
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